They both have their strong points but either would work well. This would be an excellent choice. Can use it down to 800hz.
If I buy from Parts Express, it will add shipping, customs and VAT and then the deal is not that good anymore. Maybe if I can get someone to bring that home from US
The B-52 is available through Ebay with much more affordable shipping.
B-52 PHRN-1014 10" x 14" Plastic Horn Waveguide 848864052052 | eBay
The Tymphany compression driver you can get from France:
Moteur de compression Peerless DFM-2535R00-08, 8 ohm, sortie 1 pouce
I'm listening right now to the B-52 with Beyma CP380M, 12G40 and 18PWB1000Fe. The sound is incredible. Smooth, non fatiguing. No horn sound on the waveguide. Right now I would not trade that waveguide for anything.
Budget is also this, SICA CD 60.38/N92 - 1" Compression Driver
I use it on a B52 horn crossed at 900hz. I like the way it sounds, best is to use it from 1400 up though.
I use it on a B52 horn crossed at 900hz. I like the way it sounds, best is to use it from 1400 up though.
Diyiggy: 400 Eur/Usd per driver max - to get an even better driver than the one I have. Not for a coaxial speaker, I use the 12XA30 as reference, since the HF part sounded really nice to me.
Samppo, thanks, good to know that!
Arcgotic, I was looking at the tri-acetate diaphragm Sicas as well, thanks for recommendation!
Samppo, thanks, good to know that!
Arcgotic, I was looking at the tri-acetate diaphragm Sicas as well, thanks for recommendation!
Hi Sampoo
Sorry for OT ! But in what box are you using the 18PWB1000Fe ?
Regards
Charles
A few things to note:
The Al isn't pure Al - it's an alloy, and it's a heat-treated alloy (mostly Al). The Ti version is pure Ti and is more "brittle".
More importantly the Al has a poly surround, where I believe the Ti version has an integrated surround (on the 1.4" exit drivers). There is a rather profound difference with respect to it's audible character as it nears fs and its resulting non-linear distortion: where Al-poly is far more gradual in it's HD increase and Ti is usually an abrupt large increase in HD. Fs is also lower on the Al version. Finally, the Impedance is just better on the Al version.
ND1460A 18 SOUND Driver Neodimio 160W 110dB Alluminio 1,4" - Teleprodotti
The Al isn't pure Al - it's an alloy, and it's a heat-treated alloy (mostly Al). The Ti version is pure Ti and is more "brittle".
More importantly the Al has a poly surround, where I believe the Ti version has an integrated surround (on the 1.4" exit drivers). There is a rather profound difference with respect to it's audible character as it nears fs and its resulting non-linear distortion: where Al-poly is far more gradual in it's HD increase and Ti is usually an abrupt large increase in HD. Fs is also lower on the Al version. Finally, the Impedance is just better on the Al version.
ND1460A 18 SOUND Driver Neodimio 160W 110dB Alluminio 1,4" - Teleprodotti
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pelanj
What are your reasons for not using a coaxial compression driver like the BMS 4590?
Google shows users for Klipsch upgrades, including the large K-402 tractrix, and several Pro-Audio theaters, resturants, bars.
2" Tractrix Wood Horn + BMS 4590 listen - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
"I am totally sold on the BMS coax driver. Aside from an extreme ability to produce dynamic changes, and startlingly convincing soundstage, the tweeters do sparkle, right up there with the JBL 2404H, but coverage is different, perhaps not QUITE as good, but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. It is somewhat transparent now, I don't notice the horns/drivers at all, they do not call attention to themselves. Just the recording and very expansive soundstage. Ain't no Klipschorn-like sound - different animal entirely. Definitely better, but more expensive, so you really can't make a reasonable comparison.
For the prices involved, the BMS is on the lower end of the mid-level drivers. Not the best available, but not the worst either. I remain convinced that the money-to-perfomance ratio is quite good, though."
Tractrix profile horns seem to mate well with the BMS coaxial compression drivers.
What are your reasons for not using a coaxial compression driver like the BMS 4590?
Google shows users for Klipsch upgrades, including the large K-402 tractrix, and several Pro-Audio theaters, resturants, bars.
2" Tractrix Wood Horn + BMS 4590 listen - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
"I am totally sold on the BMS coax driver. Aside from an extreme ability to produce dynamic changes, and startlingly convincing soundstage, the tweeters do sparkle, right up there with the JBL 2404H, but coverage is different, perhaps not QUITE as good, but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. It is somewhat transparent now, I don't notice the horns/drivers at all, they do not call attention to themselves. Just the recording and very expansive soundstage. Ain't no Klipschorn-like sound - different animal entirely. Definitely better, but more expensive, so you really can't make a reasonable comparison.
For the prices involved, the BMS is on the lower end of the mid-level drivers. Not the best available, but not the worst either. I remain convinced that the money-to-perfomance ratio is quite good, though."
Tractrix profile horns seem to mate well with the BMS coaxial compression drivers.
If you mentioned in your first post that you are commited to using the 2" JBL 2445 compression driver, I would have suggested using your DE500 and spending your budget on superior horns and on DSP crossover hardware. (FIR slopes, time align all drivers, boost 18kHz-20kHz, equalize room bass effects)
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I use the Faital HF108 == short path lengths create small front and rear resonant volumes + new shorter annular phase plug design with reduced resonances/reflections.
---------------
I think the Faital HF108 was designed to improve performance in short horns and wide dispersion waveguides. The flat SPL curve and flat Impedance curve combine to produce great performance from passive "basic circuit" crossovers. Good physical time alignment is possible with careful selection of a midwoofer and waveguide. You can build a "great" 3-way speaker by bi-amping the physically time aligned T&M, with a DSP time alignment on just the woofer.
The Faital HF108 engineers designed:
1) A powerful BL = 2.1T flux motor which uses a thin NeFeB magnet. This reduces the motor cavity volume and resonances, and also shortens the path to the rear chamber which has absorption material.
2) A very shallow new annular phase plug, which reduces front cavity resonances, which also reduces impedance bumps.
P.S.
Net air volume filled by dome = 0.195dm^3 - which I consider small
HF108 Exit angle is 31-degrees conical - good match for SEOS or short tractrix horn
===
===for comparison
===
The Faital HF10AK has a 0.31dm^3 net air volume filled by dome, and an exit angle of 21-degrees conical
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I use the Faital HF108 == short path lengths create small front and rear resonant volumes + new shorter annular phase plug design with reduced resonances/reflections.
---------------
I think the Faital HF108 was designed to improve performance in short horns and wide dispersion waveguides. The flat SPL curve and flat Impedance curve combine to produce great performance from passive "basic circuit" crossovers. Good physical time alignment is possible with careful selection of a midwoofer and waveguide. You can build a "great" 3-way speaker by bi-amping the physically time aligned T&M, with a DSP time alignment on just the woofer.
The Faital HF108 engineers designed:
1) A powerful BL = 2.1T flux motor which uses a thin NeFeB magnet. This reduces the motor cavity volume and resonances, and also shortens the path to the rear chamber which has absorption material.
2) A very shallow new annular phase plug, which reduces front cavity resonances, which also reduces impedance bumps.
P.S.
Net air volume filled by dome = 0.195dm^3 - which I consider small
HF108 Exit angle is 31-degrees conical - good match for SEOS or short tractrix horn
===
===for comparison
===
The Faital HF10AK has a 0.31dm^3 net air volume filled by dome, and an exit angle of 21-degrees conical
JBL 2445 on 2380A, no EQ, no crossover, 1/12th smoothing, 4ms gating @ 0.8m....
Sample 1&2 with crossover....
Crossover....
Attachments
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LineSource: The 2445 has very nice midrange, but I yet have to find a good way to integrate it with a HF horn properly. I had some success with using an identical horn for the HF and I am experimenting with Karslon-tube inserts - which kind of worked, too. The virus lockdown has really slowed down some custom deliveries, so I am basically stuck at the moment. The DE500 is good, so is the Beyma. I would like to add a third pair of drivers that would be an improvement to both - polymer or Ti with polymer surround diaphragm, but with a better behaved top end than the CP385Nd.
For DSP, I have two T-Racks DSPmini 4x4 (great but needs a bit of effort to set up) and for quick setup and experiments a Driverack PA. These are definitely not the weakest link in my setup at all. The recommendation of HF108 is noted. My setup is most of the time 4 way - with bass horns and midbass horns below the midrange and HF horns.
Mazza: I actually have now the 2445s set up with an 15" mid-bass and DSP equalized. While enjoyable, the top end can be improved. It is not unbearable, but once I tried a nice tweeter horn with them (even with all its problems), there is no way going back
For DSP, I have two T-Racks DSPmini 4x4 (great but needs a bit of effort to set up) and for quick setup and experiments a Driverack PA. These are definitely not the weakest link in my setup at all. The recommendation of HF108 is noted. My setup is most of the time 4 way - with bass horns and midbass horns below the midrange and HF horns.
Mazza: I actually have now the 2445s set up with an 15" mid-bass and DSP equalized. While enjoyable, the top end can be improved. It is not unbearable, but once I tried a nice tweeter horn with them (even with all its problems), there is no way going back