This would not be a good group to be assigned to a 'Think Tank'.
Tying shoes wouldn't even get accomplished let alone finger painting.
Dan - were I you, I'd have given up long ago. Those critical offer zero help and even less positive input, newbees can't help or we would. Our questions continue to be insulted. That's why most simply lurk.
Your efforts have not gone unappreciated.
Bluto
Tying shoes wouldn't even get accomplished let alone finger painting.
Dan - were I you, I'd have given up long ago. Those critical offer zero help and even less positive input, newbees can't help or we would. Our questions continue to be insulted. That's why most simply lurk.
Your efforts have not gone unappreciated.
Bluto
I wonder why did not I hear once a man got electrocuted while building or repairing electronic equipment, considering how ignorant people here (in my country) on safety.
The wiring in most (all) new premises use 3 wire, one is for GROUND (yes in Indonesian we still call it "ground"; it is never called EARTH) which is the safety earth, the other two is "FASE" (may be from the word "phase") sometime differentiated between "plus" (meant to be "live") and "minus" or "nol" (meant to be neutral) but we treat both with the same respect. They both are considered carrying the electricity!
Unfortunately many people take the GROUND for granted, even ignore it because their equipment works just the same with or without it. People often use cable extender with only 2 prong/socket thus eliminating the Ground. I even find cheap cable extender with 3 prong that look just perfectly innocent, to have only 2 wire running end to end.
So brothers living here, if you must use cable extender, make sure it is equipped with ground connection AND 3 wire. If you can, install ELCB (earth leakage circuit breaker) just after the main fuse. Slight leakage from either of the two FASE or NOL to GROUND (eg a drop of sweat falls and bridge the AC to chassis which is grounded) will trip the ELCB. (Note: installing ELCB is perfectly legitimate here in Indonesia, but who knows in other country?! should I add a disclaimer?
The wiring in most (all) new premises use 3 wire, one is for GROUND (yes in Indonesian we still call it "ground"; it is never called EARTH) which is the safety earth, the other two is "FASE" (may be from the word "phase") sometime differentiated between "plus" (meant to be "live") and "minus" or "nol" (meant to be neutral) but we treat both with the same respect. They both are considered carrying the electricity!
Unfortunately many people take the GROUND for granted, even ignore it because their equipment works just the same with or without it. People often use cable extender with only 2 prong/socket thus eliminating the Ground. I even find cheap cable extender with 3 prong that look just perfectly innocent, to have only 2 wire running end to end.
So brothers living here, if you must use cable extender, make sure it is equipped with ground connection AND 3 wire. If you can, install ELCB (earth leakage circuit breaker) just after the main fuse. Slight leakage from either of the two FASE or NOL to GROUND (eg a drop of sweat falls and bridge the AC to chassis which is grounded) will trip the ELCB. (Note: installing ELCB is perfectly legitimate here in Indonesia, but who knows in other country?! should I add a disclaimer?
Bluto, may I tell you a little about myself?
I have for very many years suffered with chronic ill-health. This leaves me short on both physical and mental energy. Despite that, I have created Decibel Dungeon in an effort to help others following my on my DIY hi-fi career. Have you had a good look at the site? Do you have any idea how much time and work has gone into it?
For the last few years, I have been getting up in the morning and having some breakfast while I sit at the PC. Often I will be answering email questions to DD until about ten o'clock. I don't have to of course, but I like to help out if I can, even though I answer a fair proportion of those questions by using Google, something the enquirer could have done their self.
I have no electronics training myself, and coming to the hobby later in my life when it is harder to learn new tricks, I have every sympathy with those in a similar situation.
Like others on this forum, I have patiently answered questions, often many times over. I did the same on the now defunct Chipamp forum.
In addition, I write articles for TNT-Audio (unpaid).
I don't ask for any reward for all this, not even thanks, but I don't expect to be insulted for not doing even more!
A little while back I asked you what was not covered on Decibel Dungeon, and what questions you had that you couldn't find an answer for on the internet. Answer came there none! What does that tell us?
So please excuse me if I find your above comments rather insulting, not just to me, but to the other kind souls who have freely contributed so much of their time and knowledge.
Show us just where your questions have been "insulted". The comments I made about Daniel's posts were made purely to stop the likes to you being misled, particularly when it may have put you in potential danger.
Peter Daniel responded to your original requests and went to great lengths to develop an idiot's guide to building his excellent kits. Instead of insulting us, how about taking up his generous offer and building something which will teach you much more than any of us can ever tell you in a post or an article, particularly as you seem to have decided that we are all trying to put you down?
Bluto.
When I joined this forum I knew precisely nothing about AC electrics, rectifiers opamps etc etc. I first saw the word Gainclone on Decibel Dungeon and Googled it. It took about 6 months for my interest to get the better of me and I ordered a Chipamp.com kit from Mad About Sound here in the UK.
To compliment the chipamp I was able to use CarlosFMs Uno Preamp design (free of charge) as shown on Decibel Dungeon (also free of charge) I then built a pair of Vikashs ported CSS FR125 speakers, the design being given free of charge (Are you noticing a theme emerging here yet?) Then I did myself a modified playstation to play through the whole enterprise (as shown on MickFs site free of charge)
I asked questions which were answered for me, though in some cases I didn't understand the answers. So I went away and researched the points I didn't understand, until I did.
I am by no means expert in any field, but what I do know has been taught to me by the members of this forum, either directly or indirectly AND I haven't been electrocuted because I was given the safety advice needed. The thing with questions is that you have to learn to ask the right questions, in the right way to get the answers you need.
Nobody can spoon feed you learning, it takes some effort on your part (as does anything that is worth doing) but to slate the very people who are doing something to spread some knowledge seems a touch rum to me.
Sorry if this seems a little harsh but I'm afraid my cage has been rattled.
John
When I joined this forum I knew precisely nothing about AC electrics, rectifiers opamps etc etc. I first saw the word Gainclone on Decibel Dungeon and Googled it. It took about 6 months for my interest to get the better of me and I ordered a Chipamp.com kit from Mad About Sound here in the UK.
To compliment the chipamp I was able to use CarlosFMs Uno Preamp design (free of charge) as shown on Decibel Dungeon (also free of charge) I then built a pair of Vikashs ported CSS FR125 speakers, the design being given free of charge (Are you noticing a theme emerging here yet?) Then I did myself a modified playstation to play through the whole enterprise (as shown on MickFs site free of charge)
I asked questions which were answered for me, though in some cases I didn't understand the answers. So I went away and researched the points I didn't understand, until I did.
I am by no means expert in any field, but what I do know has been taught to me by the members of this forum, either directly or indirectly AND I haven't been electrocuted because I was given the safety advice needed. The thing with questions is that you have to learn to ask the right questions, in the right way to get the answers you need.
Nobody can spoon feed you learning, it takes some effort on your part (as does anything that is worth doing) but to slate the very people who are doing something to spread some knowledge seems a touch rum to me.
Sorry if this seems a little harsh but I'm afraid my cage has been rattled.
John
Sorry for being a bit harsh but i havn't read so many questions from newbies, most do limit themselves at "i don't know, please tell me"... tell you what? Building a kit is putting all parts in place and soldering them.
All people who could do anything new are too busy both trying to help people who hadn't done a bit of search and trying to prevent you from getting electrocuted.
All people who could do anything new are too busy both trying to help people who hadn't done a bit of search and trying to prevent you from getting electrocuted.
Noob getting help
I built one of BrianGT's chipamps, I wired the transformer and I had problems, I was able to get it going with the help I received from this forum.
The lightbulb safety, how to run the grounds and tie it together.
I have not received answers to many questions, I still do not understand most of what I read here, but I keep asking and reading, sometimes I find the answer. So far no one has been unkind.
I have requested an Educational thread where we can ask those stupid questinons and get the answers.
I built one of BrianGT's chipamps, I wired the transformer and I had problems, I was able to get it going with the help I received from this forum.
The lightbulb safety, how to run the grounds and tie it together.
I have not received answers to many questions, I still do not understand most of what I read here, but I keep asking and reading, sometimes I find the answer. So far no one has been unkind.
I have requested an Educational thread where we can ask those stupid questinons and get the answers.
Whooaaa!!!
Will reply to all of this later.
My comments were to Dan, I'm away more than a week and come back to see HIM continually insulted by many, make comment without naming anyone in particular and my post gets zeroed out ?
Enough for now- if the shoe fits, wear it.
I've continually complimented ALL who have been helpful from onset. No one can say I haven't.
These latest comments are unwarranted as much as the continual chiding of Dans efforts.
Pretty surprised at all of this. Maybe I shouldn't be.
Bluto
Will reply to all of this later.
My comments were to Dan, I'm away more than a week and come back to see HIM continually insulted by many, make comment without naming anyone in particular and my post gets zeroed out ?
Enough for now- if the shoe fits, wear it.
I've continually complimented ALL who have been helpful from onset. No one can say I haven't.
These latest comments are unwarranted as much as the continual chiding of Dans efforts.
Pretty surprised at all of this. Maybe I shouldn't be.
Bluto
Computer e-mail problems have prevented me from receiving notification of response to lists for near a week.
Attempting to find possible response's at a late hour led me to this Hornets nest tonight. I'm on several lists, I have interests and obligations beyond Audio.
Once seen I'd planned on sleeping on it but I have an early AM appointment , my 'cage is rattled' as well so might as well pen my remarks.
Much is a repeat of what I responded to weeks back when accused of not reading and I made it clear I was not the one guilty of such, other posters were. No one responded to my comments then but instead my queries and statements got me a cold shoulder.
Now this?
Dan's calling it quits.... I can't help but wonder why those who 'school' me on etiquette didn't ask him to reconsider that decision but instead hung around silently while other newbees requested he continue and jumped right out of the woodwork when I made a negative remark as to how he'd been treated?
Many of you comment that your concerns were to prevent 'me' and other newbees from being electrocuted. No comment that I had stated in one of my last posts that I believed the 'light bulb' tester should be included in any tutorial. I read all posts twice, I don't see any constructive encouraging information given to Dan at all. What I see and have continued to see from the onset of 2 newbees requesting an easier to understand tutorial for building a GC is Wolves clamoring at the door of the only guy who seemed to understand that request and trying to meet that need. I personally see much stated as simply cruel .
The Man was self effacing on more occasions than I can count and let much of the worst of it roll off his back like water off a duck! Despite such and obvious indication that he'd gone so far as to confer with many of his critics off list the attacks still continued.
I'm certain other newbees (check the 'read' stats) saw same but failed to comment hoping only not to 'offend' those claiming superior knowledge and credentials believing that doing so would cut them off from future help from these same people. I don't think that way. If my thoughts expressed offend some one now they weren't going to help me in the future anyway. 'Kind Souls' don't insult someone who is doing their best to help others . 'Kind Souls' do not send PM's warning other members that they're listening to someone they deem an 'idiot'! What I'd like other newbees to know is that I indeed responded to PM's of this nature and when I stated same opinions as expressed in this post such correspondence ended and future posts to list went either unanswered by these same people or met with negativity. Welcome to all 'forums', every one I've ever been involved with has 'Clubs' within it's ranks. Such is Life in general.
I haven't 'insulted' anyone. Any of you who see anything I've said as such simply have failed to read or understand what I've said. I have, and make no excuse for such, pointed out what I see as pretty poor attitude on the critique of one Man's efforts as well as the continued assault on the entire thought behind what is now grown to 4 simultaneous threads. Beyond His efforts please re-read this entire thesis and see how many times those claiming to have superior knowledge have responded to those posting questions with adjectives such as - 'dense', 'lazy', 'idiot', 'dumb', etc., etc., as well as continued comments accusing such who'd ask these type of questions as not being qualified to undertake the task of building a GC. In between these same people continue to inform us how they initially knew nothing but with the help of others and continued study they overcame this plight and now have risen to being Authorities on the subject.
This is the 2nd time I have been singled out . 1st was after an attempt to explain what newbees were looking for when that issue had been addressed from the onset and in my mind only an 'idiot' could fail to see what had been requested. No explanation was needed.
Now I make comment to no one besides Dan and I am again addressed as to having insulted those whose motives were to only be helpful? I'd suggest those who post these objections re-read exactly the words they used in being 'helpful'.
I've thanked each and every member for all I've seen that was positive and expressed respect for work they've done for the entire DIY community in the past.
Do some of you need that with every single post? Seems obvious to me those who gripe have acted from the onset as if efforts they'd made in past were insulted simply by the initial request despite nothing but praise being expressed for those efforts.
I've begun my purchases of parts needed for both Peters and Dans projects and will proceed as I can afford to when I can and as stated the 1st time a 'Club' decided to jump in my face.
Doubtless I'll get little help from those who claim 'insult' and a re-read of all threads will show I made that same statement long ago. You only prove what I questioned as attitude of remark long ago.
Thats fine. I'll muddle along with info available to me and perhaps a truly 'Kind Soul' or 2 will afford me some help with my 'idiot' questions. I don't care if those 'offended' answer a single question I ask.
You did succeed in upsetting me and I'm certain some of you had that intention from the 1st time I said whatever I said that you believed lacking in the degree of respect you believe you deserved. Your problem, not mine.
What I think you ought to consider is how many other newbees you've frightened to the point of not wanting to ask any questions once they see how failing to approach you in the way you deem necessary factors into response .
I remain thankful to all who attempted to help in this quest and did so with pure motive.
I don't like being insulted either.
Bluto
Attempting to find possible response's at a late hour led me to this Hornets nest tonight. I'm on several lists, I have interests and obligations beyond Audio.
Once seen I'd planned on sleeping on it but I have an early AM appointment , my 'cage is rattled' as well so might as well pen my remarks.
Much is a repeat of what I responded to weeks back when accused of not reading and I made it clear I was not the one guilty of such, other posters were. No one responded to my comments then but instead my queries and statements got me a cold shoulder.
Now this?
Dan's calling it quits.... I can't help but wonder why those who 'school' me on etiquette didn't ask him to reconsider that decision but instead hung around silently while other newbees requested he continue and jumped right out of the woodwork when I made a negative remark as to how he'd been treated?
Many of you comment that your concerns were to prevent 'me' and other newbees from being electrocuted. No comment that I had stated in one of my last posts that I believed the 'light bulb' tester should be included in any tutorial. I read all posts twice, I don't see any constructive encouraging information given to Dan at all. What I see and have continued to see from the onset of 2 newbees requesting an easier to understand tutorial for building a GC is Wolves clamoring at the door of the only guy who seemed to understand that request and trying to meet that need. I personally see much stated as simply cruel .
The Man was self effacing on more occasions than I can count and let much of the worst of it roll off his back like water off a duck! Despite such and obvious indication that he'd gone so far as to confer with many of his critics off list the attacks still continued.
I'm certain other newbees (check the 'read' stats) saw same but failed to comment hoping only not to 'offend' those claiming superior knowledge and credentials believing that doing so would cut them off from future help from these same people. I don't think that way. If my thoughts expressed offend some one now they weren't going to help me in the future anyway. 'Kind Souls' don't insult someone who is doing their best to help others . 'Kind Souls' do not send PM's warning other members that they're listening to someone they deem an 'idiot'! What I'd like other newbees to know is that I indeed responded to PM's of this nature and when I stated same opinions as expressed in this post such correspondence ended and future posts to list went either unanswered by these same people or met with negativity. Welcome to all 'forums', every one I've ever been involved with has 'Clubs' within it's ranks. Such is Life in general.
I haven't 'insulted' anyone. Any of you who see anything I've said as such simply have failed to read or understand what I've said. I have, and make no excuse for such, pointed out what I see as pretty poor attitude on the critique of one Man's efforts as well as the continued assault on the entire thought behind what is now grown to 4 simultaneous threads. Beyond His efforts please re-read this entire thesis and see how many times those claiming to have superior knowledge have responded to those posting questions with adjectives such as - 'dense', 'lazy', 'idiot', 'dumb', etc., etc., as well as continued comments accusing such who'd ask these type of questions as not being qualified to undertake the task of building a GC. In between these same people continue to inform us how they initially knew nothing but with the help of others and continued study they overcame this plight and now have risen to being Authorities on the subject.
This is the 2nd time I have been singled out . 1st was after an attempt to explain what newbees were looking for when that issue had been addressed from the onset and in my mind only an 'idiot' could fail to see what had been requested. No explanation was needed.
Now I make comment to no one besides Dan and I am again addressed as to having insulted those whose motives were to only be helpful? I'd suggest those who post these objections re-read exactly the words they used in being 'helpful'.
I've thanked each and every member for all I've seen that was positive and expressed respect for work they've done for the entire DIY community in the past.
Do some of you need that with every single post? Seems obvious to me those who gripe have acted from the onset as if efforts they'd made in past were insulted simply by the initial request despite nothing but praise being expressed for those efforts.
I've begun my purchases of parts needed for both Peters and Dans projects and will proceed as I can afford to when I can and as stated the 1st time a 'Club' decided to jump in my face.
Doubtless I'll get little help from those who claim 'insult' and a re-read of all threads will show I made that same statement long ago. You only prove what I questioned as attitude of remark long ago.
Thats fine. I'll muddle along with info available to me and perhaps a truly 'Kind Soul' or 2 will afford me some help with my 'idiot' questions. I don't care if those 'offended' answer a single question I ask.
You did succeed in upsetting me and I'm certain some of you had that intention from the 1st time I said whatever I said that you believed lacking in the degree of respect you believe you deserved. Your problem, not mine.
What I think you ought to consider is how many other newbees you've frightened to the point of not wanting to ask any questions once they see how failing to approach you in the way you deem necessary factors into response .
I remain thankful to all who attempted to help in this quest and did so with pure motive.
I don't like being insulted either.
Bluto
And I certainly don't like being rude. If you can point to anywhere I have insulted you, I will apologise with pleasure. I'm sure that goes for others here so please point out any insults.
Of course, if you count encouraging you by explaining that we started with no more advantage than you have, then we probably won't have time to apologise for every occurance.
Doesn't this really just come down to building something?? All this back and forth who said what is nothing more than...nothing.
I stumbled onto this site years ago and was intrigued by what was happening with the LM series. Yes, I had electronics background, but in this world, I was a "noob". If you read, and can digest some very basic theory, you will succeed in building a very nice sounding amp.
I do agree with most of the posters that if you do not fully understand AC theory, be extremely careful and find someone who can show you. It's much easier to have a body next to you than it is to figure it out by yourself.
Now, can everybody just hug and make up
-reever (lurker extrordinaire)
I stumbled onto this site years ago and was intrigued by what was happening with the LM series. Yes, I had electronics background, but in this world, I was a "noob". If you read, and can digest some very basic theory, you will succeed in building a very nice sounding amp.
I do agree with most of the posters that if you do not fully understand AC theory, be extremely careful and find someone who can show you. It's much easier to have a body next to you than it is to figure it out by yourself.
Now, can everybody just hug and make up
-reever (lurker extrordinaire)
Relax, Bluto.
What you didn't see is that he got good advice and failed to recognize it as such. No one wanted to diminish his enthusiasm or interest in learning, as that ultimately, is what we all share. You earlier suggested that the experts weren't contributing, or that Dan wasn't getting constructive feedback.
You were wrong about that. He repeatedly refused to listen. THAT'S what stopped others from contributing.
Each time someone suggested he was on the wrong path, or looking in an unnecessary direction, or making things even more confusing for himself or the beginner following along, he reacted by doing more of the same.
I understand you're wanting a complete beginner's guide, and your questions answered by experts.
You're in luck. They're right here. Read Nuuk's site. Ask him questions and listen to his answers. Read Peter Daniel's newest threads.
And you know what? YOU could write that guide for the complete beginner. You express yourself clearly. All you have to do is start looking in the right direction.
Edit: Links added- here.
And here.
What you didn't see is that he got good advice and failed to recognize it as such. No one wanted to diminish his enthusiasm or interest in learning, as that ultimately, is what we all share. You earlier suggested that the experts weren't contributing, or that Dan wasn't getting constructive feedback.
You were wrong about that. He repeatedly refused to listen. THAT'S what stopped others from contributing.
Each time someone suggested he was on the wrong path, or looking in an unnecessary direction, or making things even more confusing for himself or the beginner following along, he reacted by doing more of the same.
I understand you're wanting a complete beginner's guide, and your questions answered by experts.
You're in luck. They're right here. Read Nuuk's site. Ask him questions and listen to his answers. Read Peter Daniel's newest threads.
And you know what? YOU could write that guide for the complete beginner. You express yourself clearly. All you have to do is start looking in the right direction.
Edit: Links added- here.
And here.
x. onasis -
Thank You -
Much of what you say at least has some truth to it and your attitude is civil. Thats respectable and all I ask for.
What I find interesting is that those who continually took shots at Dans work on list that were below the Bow make effort to explain to ME 'nicely' why they were upset or frustrated. They made no such effort in their 'corrections' to Dan.
Adding in the PM's I received only cements the attitude they expressed towards Him. Some of them were respectful as well noting that there desire was to help a newbee to not be led astray by someone unqualified. A couple of these were in my mind as mean spirited as the tone used towards him on list.
I appreciate any effort by anyone to help any newbee. Even a 'caution' is welcome if the attitude is proper.
At the same time I'll also respect any criticism of myself or anyone else posting to list if that attitude is respectful.
Many who disagreed were able to do so in just that fashion. A few insisted on just being sarcastic, vindictive, and cynical to the point of cruel.
It's stated that Dan did not listen to criticism. I read a different thread. I saw him come to the point that he simply ignored some of the more abrasive posts and just continued his work until someone pointed out error in a decent manner.
It makes no difference if he was unqualified in the eyes of some to start this task. At anytime someone else could have approached with their own ideas and I stated such way back when the criticism had become already to a point of no excuse. Rather than the blather of cynicism there should have been an exchange of thought. Less effort would have been required and more people would have benefitted.
Each time I made this case I got assaulted as if I were questioning the qualifications of those who were critical despite my frequent praise of their work.
I don't need such nor does any newbee. We prostrate ourselves simply in admitting our ignorance and I don't care what any persons accomplishments are, they have no right to insult any Student or any other person either seeking answers or attempting to teach.
Dans work to date is incomplete but pretty darn good in my mind for an individual who supposedly knows nothing . It needs much for my mind to be able to follow it but it's obvious by other posts that some newbees have built a GC based on his plan simply by following what he's laid out to date . Some of the same who have voiced their opinion with such negativity from the onset have now seemingly been willing to admit he actually accomplished something worthwhile.
Posters continually make statements alluding to believing I and others are not reading Peter Daniels work or any of the info at Decibal Dungeon. I'm at both Peters new thread and D.D. continually. I can understand some of each of them better than before due to Dans efforts.
Very simply there was never any need for half of the verbal garbage that has been posted.
I'll also simply defend my right to be ignorant as well as anyones efforts to enlighten me.
You and Reever approach with a proper attitude and ... correct, I do need to relax.
At this point I'll continue my studies both privately and via PM from individuals who have shown themselves capable of helping without insult . I came to learn, not to have to defend someone attempting to be helpful or defend myself because I take a stand against simple bad attitude disguised in platitudes.
As it's gone newbees have had to wade through the insults to find the facts. This hasn't helped most of us. Many posts from Dan indicate he's helping some off list. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure out that newbees are approaching him privately because they are simply frightened to post their 'ignorant questions' on list.
Who's responsible for that while they shout from the rooftops how qualified they are?
Thanks but No Thanks ...... I now know who to avoid when I have questions.
Those guilty know who they are and all I ask is to be ignored by them. I have no problem showing the same courtesy. In itself that is more help than given to date.
Bluto
Thank You -
Much of what you say at least has some truth to it and your attitude is civil. Thats respectable and all I ask for.
What I find interesting is that those who continually took shots at Dans work on list that were below the Bow make effort to explain to ME 'nicely' why they were upset or frustrated. They made no such effort in their 'corrections' to Dan.
Adding in the PM's I received only cements the attitude they expressed towards Him. Some of them were respectful as well noting that there desire was to help a newbee to not be led astray by someone unqualified. A couple of these were in my mind as mean spirited as the tone used towards him on list.
I appreciate any effort by anyone to help any newbee. Even a 'caution' is welcome if the attitude is proper.
At the same time I'll also respect any criticism of myself or anyone else posting to list if that attitude is respectful.
Many who disagreed were able to do so in just that fashion. A few insisted on just being sarcastic, vindictive, and cynical to the point of cruel.
It's stated that Dan did not listen to criticism. I read a different thread. I saw him come to the point that he simply ignored some of the more abrasive posts and just continued his work until someone pointed out error in a decent manner.
It makes no difference if he was unqualified in the eyes of some to start this task. At anytime someone else could have approached with their own ideas and I stated such way back when the criticism had become already to a point of no excuse. Rather than the blather of cynicism there should have been an exchange of thought. Less effort would have been required and more people would have benefitted.
Each time I made this case I got assaulted as if I were questioning the qualifications of those who were critical despite my frequent praise of their work.
I don't need such nor does any newbee. We prostrate ourselves simply in admitting our ignorance and I don't care what any persons accomplishments are, they have no right to insult any Student or any other person either seeking answers or attempting to teach.
Dans work to date is incomplete but pretty darn good in my mind for an individual who supposedly knows nothing . It needs much for my mind to be able to follow it but it's obvious by other posts that some newbees have built a GC based on his plan simply by following what he's laid out to date . Some of the same who have voiced their opinion with such negativity from the onset have now seemingly been willing to admit he actually accomplished something worthwhile.
Posters continually make statements alluding to believing I and others are not reading Peter Daniels work or any of the info at Decibal Dungeon. I'm at both Peters new thread and D.D. continually. I can understand some of each of them better than before due to Dans efforts.
Very simply there was never any need for half of the verbal garbage that has been posted.
I'll also simply defend my right to be ignorant as well as anyones efforts to enlighten me.
You and Reever approach with a proper attitude and ... correct, I do need to relax.
At this point I'll continue my studies both privately and via PM from individuals who have shown themselves capable of helping without insult . I came to learn, not to have to defend someone attempting to be helpful or defend myself because I take a stand against simple bad attitude disguised in platitudes.
As it's gone newbees have had to wade through the insults to find the facts. This hasn't helped most of us. Many posts from Dan indicate he's helping some off list. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure out that newbees are approaching him privately because they are simply frightened to post their 'ignorant questions' on list.
Who's responsible for that while they shout from the rooftops how qualified they are?
Thanks but No Thanks ...... I now know who to avoid when I have questions.
Those guilty know who they are and all I ask is to be ignored by them. I have no problem showing the same courtesy. In itself that is more help than given to date.
Bluto
I am a newbe. I spent months scrutinizing threads here before finally joining this forum. I've been with other forums for many years, mostly computer related ones; but this forum is the one I spent my time most although I don't contribute much, yet.
Were this forum full with insults to newbe, or questions from newbe left ignored, or sarcasm to newbe all around, I would have left immediately or never joined this forum at the first place. Yes there are some "harsh" response here and there, but well so is in real life and in introspect they are justified. (Improper behavior example can be found in sin-bin I guess?)
It is nice to have someone like Dan with his enthusiasm and willingness to share. He presents his knowledge (and beliefs) and knowledge he picks here and there, in a chewable form for newbe and newbe-wannabe.
BUT chewable doesn't always mean edible or healthy, though. Luckily, we also have a bunch of (more) knowledgeable members to give feedbacks or corrections or warning. I listen to them also.
To Dan: As of this specific thread, which end with ...(please contribute)..., please consider those critics either on safety regulation, or the direction of the content(those are contribution). If you think the concern (warning) on things like ..unclear international regulation and some noob do something wrong because of that ..etc etc IS correct, then YOU stop or skip those part. NOT because somebody make you stop but because YOU decide it is better to stop or skip.
Otherwise if you think that those critics is NOT correct, not in place, exaggerated, then as long as moderator allow it, why don't you just continue? You can always use example which is valid on certain region, then guide the newbe-wanabe what to look for in their respective region/country. I think those with more experience in those respective region would then be able to contribute.
As newbe, I am trying to understand and emphatize what Bluto is mad about. I failed.
Were this forum full with insults to newbe, or questions from newbe left ignored, or sarcasm to newbe all around, I would have left immediately or never joined this forum at the first place. Yes there are some "harsh" response here and there, but well so is in real life and in introspect they are justified. (Improper behavior example can be found in sin-bin I guess?)
It is nice to have someone like Dan with his enthusiasm and willingness to share. He presents his knowledge (and beliefs) and knowledge he picks here and there, in a chewable form for newbe and newbe-wannabe.
BUT chewable doesn't always mean edible or healthy, though. Luckily, we also have a bunch of (more) knowledgeable members to give feedbacks or corrections or warning. I listen to them also.
To Dan: As of this specific thread, which end with ...(please contribute)..., please consider those critics either on safety regulation, or the direction of the content(those are contribution). If you think the concern (warning) on things like ..unclear international regulation and some noob do something wrong because of that ..etc etc IS correct, then YOU stop or skip those part. NOT because somebody make you stop but because YOU decide it is better to stop or skip.
Otherwise if you think that those critics is NOT correct, not in place, exaggerated, then as long as moderator allow it, why don't you just continue? You can always use example which is valid on certain region, then guide the newbe-wanabe what to look for in their respective region/country. I think those with more experience in those respective region would then be able to contribute.
As newbe, I am trying to understand and emphatize what Bluto is mad about. I failed.
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