So it's phase coherent but not necessarily phase-linear and time aligned.
I must admit that I liked the Trident a lot. It had a slightly relaxed presentation and was slightly constrained dynamically in the upper mids / lower treble, but that could well be a signature of the AMT tweeter.
As the most expensive of the lot it's only to be expected that it received the highest praise.
Although the room was not conducive to good bass, the Gryphon was by far the best performer in that regard, and surprisingly the Alexia was the worst. The bass was boomy and all over the place.
Again you have found the same impression....I found alexia to have a boomy bass with poor control, laid back mids and highs in evidence.
Though I like the upper range of the Alexia, it is definitely not lined up with the rest of the frequency band...which give to it a life-like first glance kind of feeling!!
I found this statement on the Gryphon site, relating to the Trident II speakers:
"28 V DC bias is applied to the capacitors, eliminating crossover distortion at zero electrical potential for audibly enhanced stability and substantial gains in body, timbral colour and image coherence."
I was aware of non-linearities associated with electrolytic caps but this is a new one for me. I've never seen any testing that's revealed crossover-like distortion from a film capacitor.
"28 V DC bias is applied to the capacitors, eliminating crossover distortion at zero electrical potential for audibly enhanced stability and substantial gains in body, timbral colour and image coherence."
I was aware of non-linearities associated with electrolytic caps but this is a new one for me. I've never seen any testing that's revealed crossover-like distortion from a film capacitor.
In a different room though I've heard excellent un-boomy bass from the Alexia's, so it's possible that they're particularly sensitive WRT room boundary distances.
The Wilson mids are excellent IMHO, though I felt that the highs were not quite as resolved and open as some others in this class, but very grain-free and easy on the ear. I suspect this is a very deliberate voicing.
I'd expect that would be related to the amplifier for the bass section:
•Custom designed Gryphon bass amplifiers capable of delivering 500 Watts continuously (8 ohms) per channel
Probably an A/B type amplifier with it's related switch from class A to B.
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It appears as though they've employed this method in the past too.
Ignore the reference to the 28V bias "current". An obvious error.
Are Dulund caps non-linear?
Ignore the reference to the 28V bias "current". An obvious error.
reviewer said:
Are Dulund caps non-linear?
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Apparently it has been done before by JBL among others...
Charge Coupled Crossovers Article By Jeff Poth
You need more caps though, interesting...
In the article the goal is to get better sound trough cheap caps, I bet the Gryphon uses this trick with Duelund caps. 😱
Charge Coupled Crossovers Article By Jeff Poth
You need more caps though, interesting...
In the article the goal is to get better sound trough cheap caps, I bet the Gryphon uses this trick with Duelund caps. 😱
I came across more info and found that the bias is only used across cheap elecro's in the impedance / phase correction networks.
So it does finally make sense.
I was able to hear a pair of Vivid G2's recently, driven by Gryphon amps, though not the latest models.
The G2 Vivid's definitely sounded better than I've heard any Vivid's previously, and almost managed to live up to the hype. If there's a negative aspect to the overall performance it's that they failed to seduce and excite to the same degree that other great speakers manage to do.
But maybe they're too accurate for their own good. I'll be hearing them again driven by the latest Gryphon amplification so I'll reserve final judgment until then.
What I can say though is that it seems to be easier (and cheaper) to get a seductive and compelling presentation from B&W800 diamonds.
It's possible that the Vivid's are too perfect.
The G2 Vivid's definitely sounded better than I've heard any Vivid's previously, and almost managed to live up to the hype. If there's a negative aspect to the overall performance it's that they failed to seduce and excite to the same degree that other great speakers manage to do.
But maybe they're too accurate for their own good. I'll be hearing them again driven by the latest Gryphon amplification so I'll reserve final judgment until then.
What I can say though is that it seems to be easier (and cheaper) to get a seductive and compelling presentation from B&W800 diamonds.
It's possible that the Vivid's are too perfect.
oh sorry, I just saw this post now....
that's interesting...pretty much same impression...but go for the bigger G1...amazing speaker....a bit too pricey but really few rivals IMHO and manages to score over the older Sig800 by far...you can tell it's same designer just got better.
If you are looking for seductive sound, like you well said, don't look at vivid...but if you do look at them....be ready to know the truth about recording and sound system.
Please let us know when you hear them again!
Also, anybody heard the latest B&Ws?
I have been thinking a bit over this topic in the past days and can't figure out why B&W would make their product worse over time. True, they don't have the same designer anymore, but they have listening room and several ears can hear before and after. Maybe I am just getting this wrong, and possibly the latest B&W can be a true bargain at that price point.
If all is considered G2 and G1 are much more expensive than the new 800 (to be released). If the new 800 manages to be much better than my old 800, then it would be a true bargain...although aesthetically speaking doesn't look so great!
I need to audition that speaker soon....if anybody does in the meantime, please post your opinion...
Matter of fact I'll be hearing the G1's in a week or so, driven by the latest Gryphon amps and with a MSB diamond DAC, so I'll report back.
I was able to hear the G2's again and they sounded really sublime in the mids and treble driven by Pass Labs XA160.8's, but the bass was not quite as well controlled as it perhaps should have been. OTOH, driven by the previous model Gryphon Antileon the bass was pitch perfect and rock solid, but the mids and treble were just a little on the dry side for my liking, though beautifully detailed.
Btw, the latest B&W800 series don't arrive at the local dealer here until later next month but yes I'm very keen to take a listen when they do. By all reports they're a step up from the D2 range.
In the meantime, I got to hear the TOTL Triangle-Magellan speakers yesterday. All I can say is 'WOW'!
thanks for all your feedback.
I personally think that the G2 driven by XA200.5 would have been perfect offering the needed control in the bass region, while G1 with XS300 would be cherry on top of a cake!
The latest gryphon are amazing too offering control and beautiful neutrality, I am really interested to hear what you think about it when you will listen in a week or so.
Also I am curious to know about the latest B&W...they better be a step up from the D2 as that model was a considerable step down from the N IMHO.
If the latest B&W are back on track and will consist in a significant update, then they are definitely worth everybody's attention....
I personally think that the G2 driven by XA200.5 would have been perfect offering the needed control in the bass region, while G1 with XS300 would be cherry on top of a cake!
The latest gryphon are amazing too offering control and beautiful neutrality, I am really interested to hear what you think about it when you will listen in a week or so.
Also I am curious to know about the latest B&W...they better be a step up from the D2 as that model was a considerable step down from the N IMHO.
If the latest B&W are back on track and will consist in a significant update, then they are definitely worth everybody's attention....
Hi Art,
If I remeber right, you modified XO of your 800D2. Are you still listen to this modified version?
And 2nd...about measurements from audioaficionado site. Are they made using stock or modified XO?
many thx for those graphs...
I
If I remeber right, you modified XO of your 800D2. Are you still listen to this modified version?
And 2nd...about measurements from audioaficionado site. Are they made using stock or modified XO?
many thx for those graphs...
I
Hi Igor,
Yes, though the modifications have evolved slightly with some fine tuning.
Those graphs were made after the modifications, so yes, the response is a bit better (flatter) than stock.
Yes, though the modifications have evolved slightly with some fine tuning.
Those graphs were made after the modifications, so yes, the response is a bit better (flatter) than stock.
Thx Art!
I'm more than pleased with 800D2, especially since XA60.5 come to game 🙂
First 50 hours tweeter was not really 'connected' to mid range, but now, everything is so good! Bass is extremelly well controled, so well defined! Midrange dynamic is way better compare to my previous Ekta Grande (Scan Speak Revelator 12M). Ironically, I'm least pleased with Bowers loudest sales argument: Diamond tweeter 🙂 IMHO, Scan's Ring Radiator in Troels implemetation is less obvious, better integrated with the rest of the spectrum. More dynamic too. Futher more, I already replace diamond tweeters (both) and it was scary experience, handling with 1000 Euro drivers!
So, at the end, they sound very good and measure good too 🙂
I'm more than pleased with 800D2, especially since XA60.5 come to game 🙂
First 50 hours tweeter was not really 'connected' to mid range, but now, everything is so good! Bass is extremelly well controled, so well defined! Midrange dynamic is way better compare to my previous Ekta Grande (Scan Speak Revelator 12M). Ironically, I'm least pleased with Bowers loudest sales argument: Diamond tweeter 🙂 IMHO, Scan's Ring Radiator in Troels implemetation is less obvious, better integrated with the rest of the spectrum. More dynamic too. Futher more, I already replace diamond tweeters (both) and it was scary experience, handling with 1000 Euro drivers!
So, at the end, they sound very good and measure good too 🙂
Igor,
OMG! You've already replaced tweeters? What happened?
If you feel up to the challenge, for a nice improvement simply solder a 0.47mH inductor in parallel with the tweeter coil. There's plenty of room in the plinth.
This will also reduce the likelihood of blowing them again too.
OMG! You've already replaced tweeters? What happened?
If you feel up to the challenge, for a nice improvement simply solder a 0.47mH inductor in parallel with the tweeter coil. There's plenty of room in the plinth.
This will also reduce the likelihood of blowing them again too.
Dear Art,
yes, but it wasn't me 🙂 Thx to broken diamonds I get 800D2's at quite good price.
On pictures you can see what I did before new domes arrived: I install old Nakamichi neo car tweeters 😀
Concerning upgrades, I have 0.47uH somewhere. I will made this for sure! Any other modifications? Can you pls re send upgraded XO here?
BR,
I
yes, but it wasn't me 🙂 Thx to broken diamonds I get 800D2's at quite good price.
On pictures you can see what I did before new domes arrived: I install old Nakamichi neo car tweeters 😀
Concerning upgrades, I have 0.47uH somewhere. I will made this for sure! Any other modifications? Can you pls re send upgraded XO here?
BR,
I
Attachments
Igor, I'll post the schematic shortly. There's a slight mod to the mid crossover that you'll also need to do.
Glad you've managed to get these fine speakers (at a nice price) working again. 🙂
AV