this is the drawbar fixing after the initial try with the coin, it actually worn down significantly.
The gasket on my signature for some reason seems to be a soft rubber/gel material.
However on the B&W's video it seems to be a stiffer material. I wonder if the replacing part I got for my signature will be a gel like that or a more solid thing like the one shown on the video.
I am assuming that it is much easier to put on and dress properly the gasket when it's firmer.
The gasket on my signature for some reason seems to be a soft rubber/gel material.
However on the B&W's video it seems to be a stiffer material. I wonder if the replacing part I got for my signature will be a gel like that or a more solid thing like the one shown on the video.
I am assuming that it is much easier to put on and dress properly the gasket when it's firmer.
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and here is the midrange for the signature. what I can notice is that
1) the trim for the midrange is not removable like shown in the video for the diamond but it is pressed fitted together. This means that there are no screws in the back to hold and/or remove the black shiny trim in the front, which I find it very odd.
2) On the mid for the signature the reinforces look like spokes while on the diamond they look more sturdy (?!) not sure. I remember on the marketing ad, advertising that midrange had a more sturdy body. Not sure which one would be better and if there would be any sound improvement by changing one over the other.
1) the trim for the midrange is not removable like shown in the video for the diamond but it is pressed fitted together. This means that there are no screws in the back to hold and/or remove the black shiny trim in the front, which I find it very odd.
2) On the mid for the signature the reinforces look like spokes while on the diamond they look more sturdy (?!) not sure. I remember on the marketing ad, advertising that midrange had a more sturdy body. Not sure which one would be better and if there would be any sound improvement by changing one over the other.
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just a little comment on speakers...I had the opportunity to listen to the apparently perfect Magico $225K full range speakers with the clearudio statement V2 and goldfinger statement with Pass lab XS preamp and Aesthetix power amps at the Axpona in Chicago and I can say I have never heard something sounding that bad not even at at 50th of that price.
I exited the nice big and treated room 4 times with headache...I went for two days and I gave it a shot both days..it was just terrible, both with analog and digital.
Piecing sound, just overall a terrible sound balance. I had no words.
Speaking with a person from the press, he confirmed that Magico speakers are all about marketing but they pretty much all sound like that i.e. terrible.
Same goes with big boys from Wilson audio...just not nearly as terrible as the Magico, but it was a huge disappointment.
Same goes with B$W diamond series, I have listened to 802Diamond and the sound is terribly unbalance on the highs...I wonder why...maybe it is just the 802....
anyway...besides that the audio show was very cool....😀
I exited the nice big and treated room 4 times with headache...I went for two days and I gave it a shot both days..it was just terrible, both with analog and digital.
Piecing sound, just overall a terrible sound balance. I had no words.
Speaking with a person from the press, he confirmed that Magico speakers are all about marketing but they pretty much all sound like that i.e. terrible.
Same goes with big boys from Wilson audio...just not nearly as terrible as the Magico, but it was a huge disappointment.
Same goes with B$W diamond series, I have listened to 802Diamond and the sound is terribly unbalance on the highs...I wonder why...maybe it is just the 802....
anyway...besides that the audio show was very cool....😀
Can you recall if you were listening below the tweeter axis when listening to the 802Di's?
The optimum height is just below the tweeter. If you listen at the FST height the response is shelved down below 3.5kHz, which makes the treble sound too bright and somewhat detached.
The optimum height is just below the tweeter. If you listen at the FST height the response is shelved down below 3.5kHz, which makes the treble sound too bright and somewhat detached.
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hehe , I was there too and Magico was easily one of the top 3 worst sounding rooms ,I simply have no idea how they are able to sell them but also have no doubts that there are plenty DIY guys hanging out here trying hard to clone them such is the power of illusion....
Nick Doshi tube amplification and small Wilson speakers sounded much much better than Big Wilson rig whic was a waste of time but that didn't stop the crowds , similarly to the Big Sonus Faber speakers and ARC amps and dreck in Lamm room
My friend has 802 pre diamond as his prized possession and the tweeter there is as revolting bad as what you heard from the diamond model at the show. I simply can't phantom how such old and experienced company can release statement product with such horribly cheap sounding tweeter.
There was a one hour session on Loudspeaker and Room
Measurement on the 2nd day. That is what you needed to see.
Have you?
I fully quote you on everything! doshi sounded undoubtedly better than bigger wilson with D'agostino's precious creation.
It sounded lack of realm and bloomy on bass and height in evidence as well.
Not too cohesive however, like you said, way better than magico's...which considering the price tag I would say the WORSE in show!
802 was really terrible, I remember the older 802N, had a presence and sense of realm that has been lost with the new series.
The thing with B&W is that the original designer of the Nautilus series now works at Vivid audio.
Not sure you listened to the room with convergent and Vivid, but it was very, very good. Later I found out that the speaker I was listening was designed by the same guy who created nautilus at B&W...I found this thing very interesting!
yes...I Was in third row!! Very interesting! In fact I need to make my room more symmetric and add portable curtains on openings to make it similar L and R speaker's path!!
Art,
I have listened from seating position right below the tweeter, moved my head around and also standing up.
While there is substantial change when moving your head around from listening position, which is terribly annoying, the characteristics of the trebles remained the same no matter what.
Sound is not cohesive from bass to treble, it was a huge disappointment.
It could as well be only the 802Diamond that turned out so badly, I have not listened to the 800Diamond and it might be completely different for what matters.
What I can say about the 802Diamond is that the 802Nautilus takes the diamond series by a large amount.
The natural height and the absence of gap between midrange and treble were no match for the diamond series.
Shame on B&W for killing such a great speaker like the 802! Now the want to sell on best buys and produce classe' and rotel which are equally terrible and propose them as matching partners!!
The thing with B&W is that the original designer of the Nautilus series now works at Vivid audio.
Not sure you listened to the room with convergent and Vivid, but it was very, very good. Later I found out that the speaker I was listening was designed by the same guy who created nautilus at B&W...I found this thing very interesting![/QUOTE]
Yes , I was in the Vivid room and listened to Giya speakers . When I heard them many years before I thought they were a Taiwanese copycat capitalizing on B&W look . They did sound OK with CAT amplification although the upper ranges still had that artificial sound signature of High-Tech materials . It would never be my speaker of choice as well as any of B&W speakers old or new. This type of speakers never recreate the illusion of real life instruments or voices in real spaces to me but I'm happy to agree to disagree on the subject and change the opinion.
Best Regards, L
Not sure you listened to the room with convergent and Vivid, but it was very, very good. Later I found out that the speaker I was listening was designed by the same guy who created nautilus at B&W...I found this thing very interesting![/QUOTE]
Yes , I was in the Vivid room and listened to Giya speakers . When I heard them many years before I thought they were a Taiwanese copycat capitalizing on B&W look . They did sound OK with CAT amplification although the upper ranges still had that artificial sound signature of High-Tech materials . It would never be my speaker of choice as well as any of B&W speakers old or new. This type of speakers never recreate the illusion of real life instruments or voices in real spaces to me but I'm happy to agree to disagree on the subject and change the opinion.
Best Regards, L
limono there are many speakers better and worse than B&W no questions there...and it comes down to personal preference as well.
The Vivid Audio was an OK room and I don't know, there are too many variables when listening to a system at an audio show.
I can tell you for example that 800 with my electronics sound way more natural and more like the real thing than the vivid audio did at the show, but again many people might prefer different sound presentation and maybe vivid fulfills them better or even Magico's sound.
The Vivid Audio was an OK room and I don't know, there are too many variables when listening to a system at an audio show.
I can tell you for example that 800 with my electronics sound way more natural and more like the real thing than the vivid audio did at the show, but again many people might prefer different sound presentation and maybe vivid fulfills them better or even Magico's sound.
Technically, the only real difference between the two series is the (diamond) tweeter itself and its crossover, which has been simplified from a 3rd to a first order electrical / 2nd order acoustic. The FST crossovers are essentially identical.
The problem appears to be the tweeter's filter response, which only behaves as a second order L-R for the first octave. By correctly shaping the response over 2 octaves the coherence of the mids changes dramatically, and the treble no longer sounds out of balance. I've been able to do this by correcting the the impedance at coil resonance (with a LCR in shunt) and by adding an additional 1mH inductor across the tweeter.
Fwiw, I've only heard Classe amps on a few occasions but in all cases I was very impressed. What don't you like about them?
Ftr, I've tried several amps with my 800 di's but the best seems to be an old Aussie brand - ME, model 1400. It's a big current amp with a 5kVA transformer and half a farad of smoothing capacitance, and it doesn't use GNFB.
I also designed and built my own variant of a Self blameless, which uses Motorola 'ThermalTrak' transistors in EF2 and a hybrid TMC / CMC compensation scheme. It sounds excellent through the mids and treble but lacks the ME's "oomph" in the bass.
By contrast, my Pass Labs X250.5 was very mediocre in the bass and annoyingly bright and etched in the treble.
I completely agree with you, the difference is only the crossover and tweeter material. I felt that 802Diamond wasn't cohesive between mids and treble, while bass seemed to be in pair with original tight and fast bass of B&Ws.
If you have corrected the tweeter's filter response I can see how you have completely corrected the problem and I am sure it now sounds completely coherent and beautifully and maybe with that XO it also takes advantage of the diamond material and now perhaps it even sounds better than mine!!!
I can still believe B&W developed and released a designed that sounds like that!!
About Classe, they do sound really boring, not natural at all, little realm. CD player is really technically not up to its price range (I compared it to cheaper gear and they were able to outperform it in many aspects). Preamp is not very opened, lacks of dynamic and it is not very neutral.
Sound presentation has a veil on the mid-bass region, while treble are a little laid back.
Again problem I found from bottom range of their products up to their premium series, is that sound is not cohesive and lacks of realm that other competitor at same price point and even less offer which in turns IMHO makes them not really competitive and in general not a machine make hours of happy music....but this is my take and experience with them and someone else might like them to death which can go the same with the big Magico.
I had Pass labs X250 (not the .5) and I had a different experience from yours, but you can't have it drive your 800 it will not really be capable of doing so, but if you pair it with a smaller speakers for example an 805, it will play very, very good: natural sound, sweet highs fast and tight bass region.
For your B&W you should try XA100.5 or 160 or even better 200.5 and these will make your speaker sings (I speak from direct experience)
I have tried the XA160.5 mono's, and yes the mid and treble was near perfect but the bass was still slightly lacking control and slam. However, since then I've built a conjugate matching network which removes the reactive components below 300Hz, and every amp I've used since sounds vastly better when it's in line so the Pass deserves another listen. I've heard the latest .8 series of XA mono's in another system and they sound very nice but they definitely impart a low mid / upper bass warmth - which means that they're probably better suited to leaner sounding speakers than the B&W 800 series.
A suitable amp for your B&W800 would be lthe XA200.5
The XA160.5 although it retains all the upper treble transparency of that series, it lacks of power to drive the speaker and therefore it will result into loss of control in the bass region.
The XA200.5 will have the energy/muscles to correctly drive your speakers throughout the entire range.
Abut X8 series: It is more transparent and faster than the .5 however it presents a more balance sheer presence of 2nd harmonic which might have a slightly warmer presentation.
Nevertheless it is not near a bloomy sound at all. Given that now you could even find a used XA200.5 I wouldn't even worry about the 200.8, but if you are in the market and can afford I would probably go for the XA200.8, it will not disappoint with your B&W!
The XA160.5 although it retains all the upper treble transparency of that series, it lacks of power to drive the speaker and therefore it will result into loss of control in the bass region.
The XA200.5 will have the energy/muscles to correctly drive your speakers throughout the entire range.
Abut X8 series: It is more transparent and faster than the .5 however it presents a more balance sheer presence of 2nd harmonic which might have a slightly warmer presentation.
Nevertheless it is not near a bloomy sound at all. Given that now you could even find a used XA200.5 I wouldn't even worry about the 200.8, but if you are in the market and can afford I would probably go for the XA200.8, it will not disappoint with your B&W!
A friend of mine who currently owns a pair of XA200.8's might be upgrading soon, so I might be able to buy his XA's at a nice price.
Fwiw, he's just purchased a Gryphon Pandora preamp , and it sounds simply sublime.
Fwiw, he's just purchased a Gryphon Pandora preamp , and it sounds simply sublime.
yes Gryphon are very nice audio gear.....their power amp and preamp are wonderful piece of audio equipment.
Your friend has already the X200.8 or has the .5 currently and wants to upgrade to the .8?
If he sells his 200.5 just get it as it will be a perfect match for your B&W 800diamond and it will sound incredibly good. I have that already but will be changing soon for the better (possible roomers might suggest a XS300... who knows 😱)
Your friend has already the X200.8 or has the .5 currently and wants to upgrade to the .8?
If he sells his 200.5 just get it as it will be a perfect match for your B&W 800diamond and it will sound incredibly good. I have that already but will be changing soon for the better (possible roomers might suggest a XS300... who knows 😱)