Yes output signal hardwired to input and think to find working level settings its smartest to start up REW go to "Preferences" then "Soundcard" tab and run "Check Levels" as seen below, if it happen you can not control level from there as you see i could then adjust levels into Profire 610 control panel while watching those VU meters in REW. After that run the loop test in APL_TDA and capture window with SnippingTool.exe or use keyboards capture screen button to save the documentation.
To align acoustic impulse for left and right speaker at listening position (ear level) into REW, connect your setup as used to when measuring system in REW via microphone and levels optimized for this configuration. Below is copy of alignment example (fullrange driver W8-1772) borrowed from another thread and thanks to member perceval for that visual. When IR is aligned in REW then system levels for I/O will also be the optimized settings for APL_TDA so close REW and make sweep in APL_TDA and because its demo version and can't save or print anything remember to capture window as documentation.
To align acoustic impulse for left and right speaker at listening position (ear level) into REW, connect your setup as used to when measuring system in REW via microphone and levels optimized for this configuration. Below is copy of alignment example (fullrange driver W8-1772) borrowed from another thread and thanks to member perceval for that visual. When IR is aligned in REW then system levels for I/O will also be the optimized settings for APL_TDA so close REW and make sweep in APL_TDA and because its demo version and can't save or print anything remember to capture window as documentation.
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I will try to fiddle around with the pieces of information you have shared.
I also need to re-install REW on my computer....see if I can get it done tonight.
Probably the best thing would be to gather some thoughts and then on the weekend if either you or someone else is available we could Skype and take measurements required.
I can imagine it could be a very daunting task if you don't know how the SW and the measurement procedure need to work.
I also need to re-install REW on my computer....see if I can get it done tonight.
Probably the best thing would be to gather some thoughts and then on the weekend if either you or someone else is available we could Skype and take measurements required.
I can imagine it could be a very daunting task if you don't know how the SW and the measurement procedure need to work.
No rush from here and good to get tempo and life right so task is understandable to remember and educating. Also present wesayso got the flue and hope he be fresh again soon. In meantime if you feel for it play a little around in REW about soundcard interface settings and make some sweeps think always is good exercise or maybe exercise the align process to get a feeling the tiny movement of mic shows in IR and FR. Think important detail recognized after visiting wesayso's system is the precision he has that both speakers measure as close as possible same house curve so with mic aligned in middle measurement for L and for R and for L/R is same curve. There is crazy high sound quality wherever one sit in his couch but in sweet spot its unbelievable sound to die for. You can reach me here too should there be something ricky@byrtt.dk
Took this while having my best cup of coffee seen in light of audio interest and the high acoustic quality, maybe seen from outside it looks skinny but fact is membrane area a side reflect as 3x 10 inchers and Mms a side is only 60 gram to move, you probably wont call amp prober compared to your own and that's alright 
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Thanks, I'd be thrown out on the street if it wasn't .
Did you make any test runs yet? There's a lot that matters when measuring but You've got to just go out and do it to get started.
My first few measurements were no good at all. I had no real pré-amp for my microphone and generally it was a disaster. But it did get my feet wet and with a little practice it was way less intimidating than I thought. Once I had the equipment sorted out it became a lot easier.
Take it step by step. Run a sweep (with REW) with a single speaker first. Look at the impulse, if the peak is nice and clear to see, run the other side. If both look clear and you have an idea how they each look you can run a stereo sweep. Be sure to watch the SPL levels during the sweep. I always use an SPL meter from RadioShack to calibrate my SPL level within REW at the microphone. This gives me repeatability. One of those handy SPL apps on a phone could do that too though.
Chances are the left and right IR will be recognisable, meaning you can determine which is which in a stereo measurement. That makes aligning the microphone in the exact sweet spot easier.
It (the mic at the listening spot) should be equal distance to each speaker so even a piece of rope can get you very close.
Confirm with the sweep
.Did you make any test runs yet? There's a lot that matters when measuring but You've got to just go out and do it to get started.
My first few measurements were no good at all. I had no real pré-amp for my microphone and generally it was a disaster. But it did get my feet wet and with a little practice it was way less intimidating than I thought. Once I had the equipment sorted out it became a lot easier.
Take it step by step. Run a sweep (with REW) with a single speaker first. Look at the impulse, if the peak is nice and clear to see, run the other side. If both look clear and you have an idea how they each look you can run a stereo sweep. Be sure to watch the SPL levels during the sweep. I always use an SPL meter from RadioShack to calibrate my SPL level within REW at the microphone. This gives me repeatability. One of those handy SPL apps on a phone could do that too though.
Chances are the left and right IR will be recognisable, meaning you can determine which is which in a stereo measurement. That makes aligning the microphone in the exact sweet spot easier.
It (the mic at the listening spot) should be equal distance to each speaker so even a piece of rope can get you very close.
Confirm with the sweep
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so if I understand right, you want me to try to find as first step the sweet spot for the microphone by using impulse response.
If I understand correctly, when the speakers and microphone are centered the impulse response in stereo will look like a single impulse rather than multiple waves so do speak.
Do I need to run left and right separate as a starting point?
Do I need to run sweep and frequency response for L and R separate or both in stereo?
Waterfall plot? Or only interested in the other SW for serious measurements?
If I understand correctly, when the speakers and microphone are centered the impulse response in stereo will look like a single impulse rather than multiple waves so do speak.
Do I need to run left and right separate as a starting point?
Do I need to run sweep and frequency response for L and R separate or both in stereo?
Waterfall plot? Or only interested in the other SW for serious measurements?
The more you show, the more we have to analyse together. It doesn't look like Erik will come out and play anyway.
Yes, the idea is to place the mic in the sweet spot over at the listening position. In an ideal world left and right output would be very similar. Similar enough to make the stereo pair sum 6 dB higher. For that to happen, a lot must be right out in the room. The mic being in the right spot is the easiest requirement.
The list I made would be a good start. I'd love to see separate left and right measurements as well as a combined stereo sweep. The stereo sweep, when it sums right at the listening spot (meaning in phase) will have the best graphs, as direct signal to indirect will be higher.
It all depends on what you're willing or wanting to do. Once you know what to look for, you can try and optimise what you have.
What I would like to try and show you is that you can measure your way to better results.
We don't have to, but hey, we got this far. Software is ready to start...
Yes, the idea is to place the mic in the sweet spot over at the listening position. In an ideal world left and right output would be very similar. Similar enough to make the stereo pair sum 6 dB higher. For that to happen, a lot must be right out in the room. The mic being in the right spot is the easiest requirement.
The list I made would be a good start. I'd love to see separate left and right measurements as well as a combined stereo sweep. The stereo sweep, when it sums right at the listening spot (meaning in phase) will have the best graphs, as direct signal to indirect will be higher.
It all depends on what you're willing or wanting to do. Once you know what to look for, you can try and optimise what you have.
What I would like to try and show you is that you can measure your way to better results.
We don't have to, but hey, we got this far
. Software is ready to start...
To me this is a fun exercise. I am sorry for the delays I could be much faster but like I said I in the middle of development which is taking up most of my time at the moment. I will probably try to play with the tool tomorrow or toward the weekend.
I will take separate frequency sweeps and impulse responses as well as stereo.
As you can see my room is heavily treated acoustically, but also it is quite large and especially not built with the audio purpose in mind, but just adapted as best as possible, so I am sure there is lots of room to make improvements.
Erik is gone apparently....he either thinks he is too great for this, or he is just afraid he can't back up all his bashing with actual facts!
I don't like that....when there is to freely bash something he is all out and about...when there is a funs simple "competition"......now he is gone!
Whatever....To me this is not even a competition but more of a learning and improving process!
I will take separate frequency sweeps and impulse responses as well as stereo.
As you can see my room is heavily treated acoustically, but also it is quite large and especially not built with the audio purpose in mind, but just adapted as best as possible, so I am sure there is lots of room to make improvements.
Erik is gone apparently....he either thinks he is too great for this, or he is just afraid he can't back up all his bashing with actual facts!
I don't like that....when there is to freely bash something he is all out and about...when there is a funs simple "competition"......now he is gone!
Whatever....To me this is not even a competition but more of a learning and improving process!
Stefanoo,
Here is link to review of APL_TDA software that think is worth reading regarding use and room hints.
Link: https://soundforums.net/forum/pro-a...oking-at-speakers-and-rooms-review-of-apl-tda
Here is link to review of APL_TDA software that think is worth reading regarding use and room hints.
Link: https://soundforums.net/forum/pro-a...oking-at-speakers-and-rooms-review-of-apl-tda
wow! This is lots of interesting technical reading. I am very curious to read it!
Regarding measurements, just a little update, unfortunately I am extremely busy working on the project I have going on. As soon as I free up some time I will take detailed measurements....just wanted to let you all know I have not forgotten about it....
Erik where the heck did you go?
Note aside...Not only Erik...but I noticed the same trend on other threads as well....where haters usually talk, talk, talk big and bash and bash and bash again....then...they face the reality get cornered and just like trolls come in and go disappear!
Personally, I dislike haters on forums and this is the reason for my small participation on any of them.....I just don't get why people bash and hate on things and people without full knowledge and then when they have no more opportunity to talk big and have no more to say they just take off....!!!
This to me shows that the main interest of their interventions is purely to have unproductive arguments or to hear themselves talk big about something!
Sorry for the rant but this is how I feel!!! Maybe I am just sensitive since I have another old thread that a user resurrected after almost 10 years...asking for any progresses....and there was a particular hater that was kind of offensive in several posts....he went on until I showed pictures of some the accomplishments I had...and instead of being apologetic and ask questions about it...he just took off!! That to me is a state of the art hater ahahah!!!
Yes I am talking about you "2 picoDumbs"...if anybody saw him....he is wanted dead or alive ahahhahahahahahahahahaahh
Regarding measurements, just a little update, unfortunately I am extremely busy working on the project I have going on. As soon as I free up some time I will take detailed measurements....just wanted to let you all know I have not forgotten about it....
Erik where the heck did you go?
Note aside...Not only Erik...but I noticed the same trend on other threads as well....where haters usually talk, talk, talk big and bash and bash and bash again....then...they face the reality get cornered and just like trolls come in and go disappear!
Personally, I dislike haters on forums and this is the reason for my small participation on any of them.....I just don't get why people bash and hate on things and people without full knowledge and then when they have no more opportunity to talk big and have no more to say they just take off....!!!
This to me shows that the main interest of their interventions is purely to have unproductive arguments or to hear themselves talk big about something!
Sorry for the rant but this is how I feel!!! Maybe I am just sensitive since I have another old thread that a user resurrected after almost 10 years...asking for any progresses....and there was a particular hater that was kind of offensive in several posts....he went on until I showed pictures of some the accomplishments I had...and instead of being apologetic and ask questions about it...he just took off!! That to me is a state of the art hater ahahah!!!
Yes I am talking about you "2 picoDumbs"...if anybody saw him....he is wanted dead or alive ahahhahahahahahahahahaahh
Not cornered, didn't see my name and been sick.
This thread has gone on and on and I just lost interest. What eternal wisdom did I impart that I need to remind you of now?
Fair warning, no idea if I'll remember to check this thread again. I'm sure whatever I posted weeks ago was smarter than anything I can post now.
Best,
E
This thread has gone on and on and I just lost interest. What eternal wisdom did I impart that I need to remind you of now?
Fair warning, no idea if I'll remember to check this thread again. I'm sure whatever I posted weeks ago was smarter than anything I can post now.
Best,
E
Not cornered, didn't see my name and been sick.
This thread has gone on and on and I just lost interest. What eternal wisdom did I impart that I need to remind you of now?
Fair warning, no idea if I'll remember to check this thread again. I'm sure whatever I posted weeks ago was smarter than anything I can post now.
Best,
E
ahahahah I see...however now you have seen your name you saw the challenge.....but I don't see you picking it up!
Please install the SW and compete with me on the room/system measurements....you should have no problem outperforming my B&Ws apparently....given their horrible performance!!!
So now...when you check...please confirm whether you accept or not...and if not...why you don't accept this fun challenge....
P.S. Erik anytime this thread gets new posts you should get notified....so that should remind you to check this thread....which honestly....you are talking nonsense since this thread has gotten much more interesting now about room/speaker measurements than it was when you and I were going back and forth on the B&W.....but apparently you lost your interest given you can't bash anymore or simply because you are above all this...or simply know your gear and room are not even in the ballpark!!????!? which one is it?? ahahhaha
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Sorry to hear that! I hope you will get better soon!
Take care!
P.S. hopefully you understood it is just a friendly joke....there is absolutely nothing personal
Oranges and apples. I bought the inexpensive MA Silver 8s for my weekend system and the much more expensive 802D3s for my main system. Not only are the rest of the components in each system entirely different, the rooms are vastly different as well and those acoustics have a huge influence.
ahahaha....don't even bother trying to explain this to him!! aahah
anyway since you are here: how do you like your B&WD3? did you have any previous model from B&Ws? Diamond or Nautilus?
I listened to the D3 but the setup wasn't adequate IMO so I can't really make a determination whether I liked them or not.
What is your sound system? would you mind detailing our primary and secondary system?
Thanks for sharing!
Sorry for waking this old tread back to life (well, it is close to Easter )
I have a pair of B&W CM10 with the same "issues" as CM9 and 800 Diamond: single cap 4.7 uF on tweeter, recessed 2-4 kHz and too hot above 5 kHz.
Will the proposed modification by SHC on CM9 apply on CM10 as well? Or are there any special consideration that need attention?
Regards
Bjarne
)I have a pair of B&W CM10 with the same "issues" as CM9 and 800 Diamond: single cap 4.7 uF on tweeter, recessed 2-4 kHz and too hot above 5 kHz.
Will the proposed modification by SHC on CM9 apply on CM10 as well? Or are there any special consideration that need attention?
Regards
Bjarne
Here are the schematics for the original and modified CM9 crossovers. Tweeter at the top, woofers at the bottom.
The modifications are implemented in a way that permits easy removal. I was originally going to make one concession and solder-in the C5 caps but access to the crossover board is quite awkward when it is in the enclosure. I didn't want to remove the boards so I soldered a couple of big alligator clips to each C5 and clipped it across C1.
The other four components (R5, L5, C6 and C7) are mounted on a small piece of 1/4" ply located inside the midrange chamber. Faston connector tabs are used for the board inputs and flying leads and Faston connectors for the outputs. The existing speaker leads connect to the board and the flying leads to the drivers.
Original: View attachment 494151 Modified: View attachment 494152
Sorry for waking this old tread back to life (well, it is close to Easter
I have a pair of B&W CM10 with the same "issues" as CM9 and 800 Diamond: single cap 4.7 uF on tweeter, recessed 2-4 kHz and too hot above 5 kHz.
Will the proposed modification by SHC on CM9 apply on CM10 as well? Or are there any special consideration that need attention?
Regards
Bjarne
Before making significant alterations to the crossover - such as the proposed mod to 3rd order filter I would simply add a 0.5R resistor in series with the tweeter plus also add a 0.68mH in parallel with the tweeter.
This will reduce the tweeter level by about 1dB and reduce the 2kHz dip by 1-2dB.
Changing to a third order, without moving the tweeter for phase alignment will likely alter the vertical lobe significantly in the crossover region.