Impossible to tell fake from genuine without extensive testing with equipment way beyond most people's budget.
Definitely some Chinese retailers (on eBay or off) are genuine and sell excellent kits and parts but not all. Until there is some kind of registry or some formalised way to tell fake parts from genuine, there will always be this question of authenticity. Genuine parts manufacturers of high expense pars should consider more complex labelling systems: an on-line verifiable hash key that keeps a database of genuine keys and cancels keys submitted multiple times (essentially what everyone is doing with software at the moment) or the use of difficult-to-reproduce holographic labels, as examples. Yes, raise the cost of premium parts by 10% but these parts are usually stupidly expensive to start with (Black Gate = license to print money).
Definitely some Chinese retailers (on eBay or off) are genuine and sell excellent kits and parts but not all. Until there is some kind of registry or some formalised way to tell fake parts from genuine, there will always be this question of authenticity. Genuine parts manufacturers of high expense pars should consider more complex labelling systems: an on-line verifiable hash key that keeps a database of genuine keys and cancels keys submitted multiple times (essentially what everyone is doing with software at the moment) or the use of difficult-to-reproduce holographic labels, as examples. Yes, raise the cost of premium parts by 10% but these parts are usually stupidly expensive to start with (Black Gate = license to print money).
It's a bit of both. I think most of the high end component industry and most of weird on-line designs rely on, usually unconsciously in the latter, placebo, but, sure, some component choices are bound to actually count.
I guess the overall point about bringing science to audio is to show how people can make good, very informed decisions about the physical universe as it relates to music and electronics. Anyone concerned that a different capacitor here or a different resistor there may or may not be altering the sound of the device has, in their own hands, the technique and (probably) the necessary resources to conduct simple double-blind experiments.
Go for it. Get your friends to help. Do some double-blind scientific tests! Audiophiles have consistently failed them - sometime not being able to tell the difference between a $90 production-line amp and $5000 hand made tube amp. Do it, test it, look up a web page about how to conduct a decent scientific test, provide us with the result. ONLY by this way will anyone learn what is real as what is assumed.
Having done blind capacitor testing with friends, I found there are differences, but with no direct correlation between price and sound quality.
I use the 10uf versions of these in my passlabs b1, found them to sound no different to a variety of much more expensive polyprop capacitors. Of course I bought them from banzaieffects in Germany, not some nameless Chinese diy seller.
Hi
I bought these audiophiler caps from a reliable ebay seller.
Got the 10uf, 3,3uf, 2,2uf ones to experiment in some cheap speakers that came with a technics all-in-one system. All i can say is that they made a very good job in the low pass filter of the crossovers. Bass & mid frequencies were improved, great overall control to the bass section & neutral mids.
I would not suggest to use the Audiophiler caps with tweeters. ERO MKT1822 bypassed with Vishay MKP1837 and sonicaps bypassed with teflon caps was the best result for my tweeters.
But this was a project that cannot prove whether they are good to use or not. For their price they are worth a try. The seller was kind enough to send me matched pairs (he did i measured them).
Vassilis
What a shame the Chinese try to pass their caps off as German manufacture, but mis-spell by just one letter. 
You'd almost think that's intentional.
You'd almost think that's intentional.
My wife who is the least bit interested in audio can hear the difference in caps just walking past the stereo, it is not a placebo in my humble opinion. Many designers ,including Sony on their ES range will spend hours voicing different parts on their designs, and yet you claim its placebo.
Whilst I agree topolgy and pcb design are important, I believe parts can change the sound.
What a shame the Chinese try to pass their caps off as German manufacture, but mis-spell by just one letter.
You'd almost think that's intentional.
It's very common out here to see brands that are almost but not quite the same as well known brands. The single letter difference seems to be enough to kep the law off their backs as it is no longer "forgery"
eg one of the big local cheap brands is "Pensonic"
I just replaced an audiophiler Mkp 6.8uF cap in a loudspeaker crossover for a 6.8uF Jantzen superior Z which I regard as a real but modest audiophile capacitor.
The Jantzen caps cost $30 from parts express the Audiophiler caps cost $1.50 from amazon.
The position was the parallel cap in 12db/octave crossover on the bass / mid driver.
The audiophiler caps had been run in for a few weeks the Jantzen caps had never been used before.
The difference in sound was astonishing. The sound system appeared to burst into life. With the Jantzen caps, the sound was smoother, much more detailed, more natural, holographic imaging, at the same time much more dynamic and more relaxed. In short they were superior in every department even though they had not been run in properly.
Of course the Jantzens do cost 30 times more than the Audiophiler caps so we would expect them to be better but still I was a little taken aback just how big the difference was.
The Audiophiler caps may be good value for money if your budget is really tight but they clearly are not an "audiophile" component in any way I understand that terminology.
I think the Jantzens are also very good value for money. Possibly you need to start paying 3 - 5 times as much to get something that is significantly better.
See this capacitor comparison site:
Humble Homemade Hifi
Hope these subjective findings are useful
mike
The Jantzen caps cost $30 from parts express the Audiophiler caps cost $1.50 from amazon.
The position was the parallel cap in 12db/octave crossover on the bass / mid driver.
The audiophiler caps had been run in for a few weeks the Jantzen caps had never been used before.
The difference in sound was astonishing. The sound system appeared to burst into life. With the Jantzen caps, the sound was smoother, much more detailed, more natural, holographic imaging, at the same time much more dynamic and more relaxed. In short they were superior in every department even though they had not been run in properly.
Of course the Jantzens do cost 30 times more than the Audiophiler caps so we would expect them to be better but still I was a little taken aback just how big the difference was.
The Audiophiler caps may be good value for money if your budget is really tight but they clearly are not an "audiophile" component in any way I understand that terminology.
I think the Jantzens are also very good value for money. Possibly you need to start paying 3 - 5 times as much to get something that is significantly better.
See this capacitor comparison site:
Humble Homemade Hifi
Hope these subjective findings are useful
mike
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Audiophiler caps?
i have used it, no issues....
heard differences? not that i can tell, 😀
i wasn't listening for any....why should i?😱
i just stick it in and listened to music,
tapped my feet to the rhythm, that's all...😎
are there any rules that says we should here a difference?
i have used it, no issues....
heard differences? not that i can tell, 😀
i wasn't listening for any....why should i?😱
i just stick it in and listened to music,
tapped my feet to the rhythm, that's all...😎
are there any rules that says we should here a difference?
thanks,
for cross overs, i use a capacitance, inductance testers so that values are close to designed ones....
Just found this thread, thanks for these links - very interesting & useful articles
I have some 'panasony' wall wart transformers. After 25 years, still my favorite 'fake' name.
Yes, the audiophiler caps sound bad, as in 'don't ever use them' bad.. The Mundorfs sound quite good, they are superior to the Solen caps of the same size range.
I got two red Audiophiler caps with a $12 Grado RA-1 kit from ebay and they sounded terrible, killed all detail and high end. Replaced with two Monacor MKP caps bought for £2.30 on ebay = total transformation, that's how bad they are!
Always meant to spend £20 on a pair of decent caps to see what it does for this little amp...
Always meant to spend £20 on a pair of decent caps to see what it does for this little amp...
Thx for bringing this to my attention. I'm always looking for low cost good caps. These aren't it. Solen comes to mind when comparing low cost caps. If you don't notice a difference when subsituting stock caps with Solens, go buy a boombox and praise your MP3s....You get what you pay for.....
Can not open your ebay link .
I suggest you use a HongKong brand jb capacitor, as i used them these days in my speakers and they sounds good after testing. Maybe you can contact them for smaples.
JFX - Premium Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitors ? Axial - jb
I suggest you use a HongKong brand jb capacitor, as i used them these days in my speakers and they sounds good after testing. Maybe you can contact them for smaples.
JFX - Premium Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitors ? Axial - jb
Interesting thread - I tend to agree that there aren't many sonic differences resulting from dielectric types. One capacitor which I loved (and only have two lonely pieces of) is the Wima MKC series - it gives a nice dry, yet very accurate sound (the opposite of a 'tubey' sound...whatever that is). Not sure why Wima stopped making them - it's polycarbonate I think.
You all can go ahead and pay whatever you want for Audio grade capacitors. I occasionally pay big bucks for certain brands myself.
Some places they work great, other places no difference. Depends on the circuit.
Yes, there are counterfeits on ebay but in the last 5 years I have developed some good relationships with ebay sellers who are in the 3000-10,000 range 97% and higher and I have no problem buying 100 capacitors from them for the same price some other companies will only sell me 10. Yes shipping can be longer but if your in a hurry 10 bucks will speed things up.
I just wanted to shoot down the lie that "if the price seems to good it always is"
If that was the case then "the more something cost the better it is even if it is the same thing" must be true.
I think a lot of the problem is people just can not fathom how fast factories can run.
I worked in a large cannery, 4 lines. Each line could do 1,000 cans a minute, didn't matter if they were 5 oz cans or 13 oz cans (well it mattered to our bodies).
The neatest thing about that factory, was the 2 inkjet printers spraying the code on the cans for all 4 lines.
I can imagine factories pumping out millions of capacitors and chips a day. They won't make them unless someone is ordering them.
Now as for fakes, they are probably defective factory runs that someone did not dump properly. They don't check every chip, they just grab a handful every hour, run or what ever their software says they should check.
in the Cannery we had A grade B grade, C grade and trash. A & B grades were sold with our label, C grade had some other label on it and trash was recycled if possible and if not it went to the dump and one of us stayed there till it was buried beyond digging up.
Sorry this thread got this post but I wanted to post it 1 time, normally I do not waste my time with opinions vs fact debates
Some places they work great, other places no difference. Depends on the circuit.
Yes, there are counterfeits on ebay but in the last 5 years I have developed some good relationships with ebay sellers who are in the 3000-10,000 range 97% and higher and I have no problem buying 100 capacitors from them for the same price some other companies will only sell me 10. Yes shipping can be longer but if your in a hurry 10 bucks will speed things up.
I just wanted to shoot down the lie that "if the price seems to good it always is"
If that was the case then "the more something cost the better it is even if it is the same thing" must be true.
I think a lot of the problem is people just can not fathom how fast factories can run.
I worked in a large cannery, 4 lines. Each line could do 1,000 cans a minute, didn't matter if they were 5 oz cans or 13 oz cans (well it mattered to our bodies).
The neatest thing about that factory, was the 2 inkjet printers spraying the code on the cans for all 4 lines.
I can imagine factories pumping out millions of capacitors and chips a day. They won't make them unless someone is ordering them.
Now as for fakes, they are probably defective factory runs that someone did not dump properly. They don't check every chip, they just grab a handful every hour, run or what ever their software says they should check.
in the Cannery we had A grade B grade, C grade and trash. A & B grades were sold with our label, C grade had some other label on it and trash was recycled if possible and if not it went to the dump and one of us stayed there till it was buried beyond digging up.
Sorry this thread got this post but I wanted to post it 1 time, normally I do not waste my time with opinions vs fact debates
I noticed that in a small amplifier I have two of these "Audiophiler" capacitors.
So, last night, I listened to Dark Side of the Moon on heapdhones twice in a row - then swapped them out for some inexpensive Vishay MK 1839 axial MKP capacitors I had laying around and listened to the album twice again.
The result - I perceived some slight improvement in the tightness of the bass, and possibly maybe some minimal increased treble clarity. Worth the effort to swap them? Yeah. Would any joe bloggs using speakers notice a difference? Probably not.
So, last night, I listened to Dark Side of the Moon on heapdhones twice in a row - then swapped them out for some inexpensive Vishay MK 1839 axial MKP capacitors I had laying around and listened to the album twice again.
The result - I perceived some slight improvement in the tightness of the bass, and possibly maybe some minimal increased treble clarity. Worth the effort to swap them? Yeah. Would any joe bloggs using speakers notice a difference? Probably not.
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