Crimping wins if you get a gas-tight connection. That's not likely to happen with the cereal box toy crimper that came with the $10 connector kit you bought at the auto part store (which is what I suspect most DIYers use). Molex makes a good ratcheting crimper that isn't horrifically expensive. Molex P/N: 0640160036. Digikey has them.
Tom
Tom
You are right, but there is a small problem:
Perfect soldering is quite easy and inexpensive, perfect crimping not. All parts have to meet specification and the expensive tools have to work perfectly.
Most crimps done in hobby are far from "better than soldered".
So if you work in a certified environment producing high quality electronics, the crimp is the winner. At home with your ugly crimp squezing plier the solder connection will sure be better.
Perfect soldering is quite easy and inexpensive, perfect crimping not. All parts have to meet specification and the expensive tools have to work perfectly.
Most crimps done in hobby are far from "better than soldered".
So if you work in a certified environment producing high quality electronics, the crimp is the winner. At home with your ugly crimp squezing plier the solder connection will sure be better.
Yes at home one can use good Knipex, Molex and Klauke tools for crimping. Certification is between a between the ears issue and mostly forced to avoid liability and to generate more revenue (I am certified FWIW).
Anyone liking quality work can deliver quality work (if one wants).
Anyone liking quality work can deliver quality work (if one wants).
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I mean, it got it working again, so Im not worried about my wd40 fix... Even though its a relay/contactor its only a volt or so and not even an amp, so its not arcing. The relays switch on before music is played, usually thats the case with all of these deals, so i see no problem whatsoever with arcs or deposits.
I was thinking maybe diesel would work just as good, but I thought Naaa I cant be having my qp2r stink like that
I was thinking maybe diesel would work just as good, but I thought Naaa I cant be having my qp2r stink like that
I don’t know if anyone else also sees the humor in the current argument.
JP is an engineer that as far a I can tell follows what I would call a Teutonic engineering philosophy. Simply put if he actually posted something incorrect he would explode or something similar.
As to the issue at hand, a properly crimped connection causes mechanical welding between the terminal and the wire. A soldered connection has the solder fuse to the copper pieces being joined.
Anyone who has used a copper tipped soldering iron has seen the tip literally dissolve from use. That is why most soldering irons today use an iron clad tip to prevent that.
Now when you properly crimp a spade connector to a wire you will have less resistance than a soldered connection. Placing the spade terminal to a binding post or even screw terminal has much more surface area in contact. This also lowers resistance. So a properly terminated cable should have lower total resistance than a bare wire used for the connection.
Of course a badly crimped spade lug can be improved by a bit of proper soldering.
If your listening tests yield the result that a plain wire is better than a properly prepared cable two options present themselves, either a bad crimp or listener bias.
JP is an engineer that as far a I can tell follows what I would call a Teutonic engineering philosophy. Simply put if he actually posted something incorrect he would explode or something similar.
As to the issue at hand, a properly crimped connection causes mechanical welding between the terminal and the wire. A soldered connection has the solder fuse to the copper pieces being joined.
Anyone who has used a copper tipped soldering iron has seen the tip literally dissolve from use. That is why most soldering irons today use an iron clad tip to prevent that.
Now when you properly crimp a spade connector to a wire you will have less resistance than a soldered connection. Placing the spade terminal to a binding post or even screw terminal has much more surface area in contact. This also lowers resistance. So a properly terminated cable should have lower total resistance than a bare wire used for the connection.
Of course a badly crimped spade lug can be improved by a bit of proper soldering.
If your listening tests yield the result that a plain wire is better than a properly prepared cable two options present themselves, either a bad crimp or listener bias.
The gauge of the cable does matter.
I prefer crimping, but it also depends on the kind and the size of existing connectors.
The quality of the crimping tool, the accuracy of the crimpature and the material of the forks are crucial.
When it is appropriate I use wire ferrules too.
I prefer crimping, but it also depends on the kind and the size of existing connectors.
The quality of the crimping tool, the accuracy of the crimpature and the material of the forks are crucial.
When it is appropriate I use wire ferrules too.
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Only by new science. So as long as you're referring to the latest science, it cannot, by definition, be "proven wrong", except where we don't have the answers and we only have strong theories. Which I am sure we do not need to refer to when it comes to relays, soldering, crimped connections.
Although I still personally prefer soldering to crimped connections except where there are very strong vibrations. Excepting those situations, you get practically the same outcome.
Crimping induces metallurgic hardening, It will actually change the structure of the metal crystals. I think that this does effect sound and will compress and NOT reduce the resistance in the signal path.
Silver soldering is ultimately preferred, and in that instance, you would see less resistance than lead and lead free soldering joint.
Crimps do not cold weld. I have cut many factory crimps apart and you will see the strands are not welded. You cannot cold weld it when there is oxidation on the surface.
Do you know common practice for power generation plants and highly critical applications? Crimp AND solder. Its called parallel redundancy.
Silver soldering is ultimately preferred, and in that instance, you would see less resistance than lead and lead free soldering joint.
Crimps do not cold weld. I have cut many factory crimps apart and you will see the strands are not welded. You cannot cold weld it when there is oxidation on the surface.
Do you know common practice for power generation plants and highly critical applications? Crimp AND solder. Its called parallel redundancy.
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In audio applications if wire gauge is very thin I prefer to solder it, if very huge (i. e. loudspeakers cables) I prefer crimping it.
Before to crimp I spread a thin veil of an appreciated non-conductive oil on both terminals and wires.
The eyelet terminals are a quality italian brand made of electrolytic copper (tinned).
That crimpature sounds so good to my ears.
I rarely used crimping and soldering together and if/when almost always for faston only.
Before to crimp I spread a thin veil of an appreciated non-conductive oil on both terminals and wires.
The eyelet terminals are a quality italian brand made of electrolytic copper (tinned).
That crimpature sounds so good to my ears.
I rarely used crimping and soldering together and if/when almost always for faston only.
Attachments
Complete nonsense.
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/482867
And many others you can look for.
Tinning the wire before crimping reduces the reliability of the crimp. (Lead is a lubricant.)
I'll leave it to the audiophile reviewers to lift that veil...
Really that oil has been appreciated for many years (not only by me) not for "snake" reasons , but just because it is an excellent cleaner/protector from the oxidation of metals.The manufacturer is a metallurgical engineer who also produces cables that I have never appreciated though.
The oil instead yes, I appreciate it as cleaner/protector.
However, I do not exclude that almost any other cleaner/protector oil would be fine the same.
I think it is just a matter of personal preferences and convictions, all equally respectable, otherwise where would the pleasure be?
Just found some articles that compare crimping and soldering advantages and disadvantages.
I found them interesting.
Just as an example, it is said that when you crimp conductors and terminals, no cleaner/protector must be used because it is the crimping itself that cleans the two metals.
However I'm sure those articles won't change too many opinions.
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/crimping-and-soldering
https://monroeengineering.com/blog/crimping-vs-soldering-cable-connectors-which-is-best/
https://www.audioquest.com/resource/1142/DoNoHarm-whitepaper-1222-11-r11.pdf
Just found some articles that compare crimping and soldering advantages and disadvantages.
I found them interesting.
Just as an example, it is said that when you crimp conductors and terminals, no cleaner/protector must be used because it is the crimping itself that cleans the two metals.
However I'm sure those articles won't change too many opinions.
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/crimping-and-soldering
https://monroeengineering.com/blog/crimping-vs-soldering-cable-connectors-which-is-best/
https://www.audioquest.com/resource/1142/DoNoHarm-whitepaper-1222-11-r11.pdf
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of connections like that in your household wiring.
Tom
Yes Tom, But right now all of my audio stuff is connected to a solar power bank, that I put together personally... all of the terminals are soldered together where possible. The lf inverter board has screw on connections, that's just because I have a warranty on the board in case something goes wrong and it might need replacing since it is what i though to be schetchy chinese engineering. Turns out its a very reliable unit with good efficiency. Its an lf inverter board with 24 mosfets, a 6-8kw iron core transformer, and an egs002 module making the sine wave. Has been 100 percent reliable so far. Its a big improvement over grid power. I mostly notice low frequencies are attenuated better with a low impedance supply.
If I intended on building it specifically as an audio power supply, well, I would not be using an inverter nor ac power whatsoever.
I would be running dc power from a nice size battery bank that can supply a virtually infinite amount of current (as far as the mosfets are concerned)... I have hooked it up to one of my class a amplifers and it was fantastic. An undeniable improvment to any sound system. But it is fairly unsafe in the house because it is very sparky when things get shorted. They supply enough current to cause concern, so I can settle with my inverter setup, its a reasonable compromise in convenience and performance.
If I intended on building it specifically as an audio power supply, well, I would not be using an inverter nor ac power whatsoever.
I would be running dc power from a nice size battery bank that can supply a virtually infinite amount of current (as far as the mosfets are concerned)... I have hooked it up to one of my class a amplifers and it was fantastic. An undeniable improvment to any sound system. But it is fairly unsafe in the house because it is very sparky when things get shorted. They supply enough current to cause concern, so I can settle with my inverter setup, its a reasonable compromise in convenience and performance.