Dear Ian,Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (2)
After break-in the Spring3 for more than a week, I started trying to improve it with my external HDMI streamer transport (kind of DDC). Here are the details.
Network streamer transport (DDC) setups:
Spring 3 R-2R DAC configuration:
- (#1D) FifoPiQ7 with default 45.1584/49.1520 MHz XOs
- (#17B) HdmiPiPro with 8K HDMI cable
- (#49A) MonitorPi (optional)
- (#48A) PurePi
- (#51A) Acrylic protection cover (optional)
- RaspberryPi 4B
Listening test configurations:
- PLL: OFF
- HDMI: ALT2
- B&W 802 D3 speakers
- Pass XA 160.5 pure class A mono block amplifiers
- Pass XP-10 Pre-Amplifier in balanced inputs/outputs
- PS Audio P20 PowerPlant
The first impression was pretty positive. The R-2R sound signature was still there. But the sound stage opened more than before. The instrument size becomes smaller and also focuses better. The micro details were also improved. However, the 3D image was still not as good as my Q7(with OCXO)/ES9038 Dual Mono/OPA861 DAC setup. So next, I’m gonna try to improve the power supplies and the XO clocks to see how much satisfaction I can get the most out of the Spring3.
Again, the listening test is just a kind of a subjective test. It is based on my own personal experiences. So it only stands my point of view. It would be reasonable if different people feel differently. If it is possible, try it by yourself and trust your ears.
Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (1)
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...fight-the-jitter.192465/page-405#post-7220567
https://github.com/iancanada/DocumentDownload/blob/master/HDMIpi/HdmiPiPro/HdmiPiProManual.pdf
https://github.com/iancanada/DocumentDownload/blob/master/FifoPi/FifoPiQ7/FifoPiQ7Manual.pdf
https://github.com/iancanada/DocumentDownload/blob/master/MonitorPi/MonitorPi.pdf
HdmiPiProDDCListeningRoom by Ian, on Flickr
Ian
I may have another suggestion for this setup, only regarding the vibration control. Seeing just spikes on that PurePi, that's not enough from keeping the streamer and its clocks vibrations free.
I'd like to share this nice article about some principles and how to handle this important task: http://www.audiodrom.net/en/special-edition-reviews/54-isolation-systems
TL;DR : Those spikes need at least corresponding pads (ideally with balls inside) to isolate from the surface effectively.
I was a nonbeliever as well (how could for example a DAC benefit from vibration isolation, particularly in a headphone setup, right?), but as I later in my career found out, there isn't a device, which wouldn't benefit from proper isolating feet. None.
Btw at what stage is that new flagship output board?
Thanks and happy listening.
@ shutdown98
Flagship TransportPiAES will be released very soon.
Any updates on the release date of TransportPiAES?
"I will have a DENAFRIPS ARES 12th in my listening room for test next week. I'll keep you posted for the update." Did you get the Ares, very interested to know your views as I have the same dac here in my rig.
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@iancanada
What would be the best option to feed the Denafrips Ares II Dac (it has no I2S input).
I don’t mind going for the FifopiQ7 if needed.
Please advise keeping in mind that I will surely be upgrading to a better Dac with I2s in the near future.
What would be the best option to feed the Denafrips Ares II Dac (it has no I2S input).
I don’t mind going for the FifopiQ7 if needed.
Please advise keeping in mind that I will surely be upgrading to a better Dac with I2s in the near future.
Feed 5V via FifoPiQ7 would be better if you use Q7+ShieldPiPro configuration. Because it powers GPIO directly in this way.
Ian
Hello all.
question, I recently got an raspberry pi 4 an IsolatorPi II and a FifoPi Ma v1.5, works and sounds fantastic.
now I would like to connect a rotary encoder, infrared, mpd oled and an audiophonics power module to this, but I run into a problem.
via the gpio aux of the FifoPi Ma it doesn't work, via the gpio aux of the IsolatorPiII I can't get to it, no space to connect plugs.
what is the way to make these things work? because I can't figure it out.
question, I recently got an raspberry pi 4 an IsolatorPi II and a FifoPi Ma v1.5, works and sounds fantastic.
now I would like to connect a rotary encoder, infrared, mpd oled and an audiophonics power module to this, but I run into a problem.
via the gpio aux of the FifoPi Ma it doesn't work, via the gpio aux of the IsolatorPiII I can't get to it, no space to connect plugs.
what is the way to make these things work? because I can't figure it out.
@iancanada can you recommend some kind of case for this project? The EMI/RFI issue at my home is pretty terrible.Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (2)
After break-in the Spring3 for more than a week, I started trying to improve it with my external HDMI streamer transport (kind of DDC). Here are the details.
Network streamer transport (DDC) setups:
Spring 3 R-2R DAC configuration:
- (#1D) FifoPiQ7 with default 45.1584/49.1520 MHz XOs
- (#17B) HdmiPiPro with 8K HDMI cable
- (#49A) MonitorPi (optional)
- (#48A) PurePi
- (#51A) Acrylic protection cover (optional)
- RaspberryPi 4B
Listening test configurations:
- PLL: OFF
- HDMI: ALT2
- B&W 802 D3 speakers
- Pass XA 160.5 pure class A mono block amplifiers
- Pass XP-10 Pre-Amplifier in balanced inputs/outputs
- PS Audio P20 PowerPlant
The first impression was pretty positive. The R-2R sound signature was still there. But the sound stage opened more than before. The instrument size becomes smaller and also focuses better. The micro details were also improved. However, the 3D image was still not as good as my Q7(with OCXO)/ES9038 Dual Mono/OPA861 DAC setup. So next, I’m gonna try to improve the power supplies and the XO clocks to see how much satisfaction I can get the most out of the Spring3.
Again, the listening test is just a kind of a subjective test. It is based on my own personal experiences. So it only stands my point of view. It would be reasonable if different people feel differently. If it is possible, try it by yourself and trust your ears.
Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (1)
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...fight-the-jitter.192465/page-405#post-7220567
https://github.com/iancanada/DocumentDownload/blob/master/HDMIpi/HdmiPiPro/HdmiPiProManual.pdf
https://github.com/iancanada/DocumentDownload/blob/master/FifoPi/FifoPiQ7/FifoPiQ7Manual.pdf
https://github.com/iancanada/DocumentDownload/blob/master/MonitorPi/MonitorPi.pdf
Ian
Ian, did you ever build the OPC NTD1 output stage for Buffalo DACs a while ago? I'm curious how you would compare its sound signature to the OPA861 and Bisesik transformers.
I hadn't considered the LifePO4 Mini 6.6V because they are 6.6V!
The pdf download says a dual rail +-5V power supply is needed for the OPA861 I/V
Also pdf also says 12V input to the LifePO4 Mini 6.6V can be AC, so can I simply power with a 30VA 12V Toroidal Transformer ?
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Oh, re-reading the post, I see the intent is to replace the 5V AC coils with Two LifePO4 Mini to power the LinearPi Dual (which will still need the AC coils!)
Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (3) Power supply
If the clock quality is the most significant thing for a DDC streamer transports, then the power supply would be the most significant thing for the clocks.
1. Add a UcConditioner Pi 3.3 to the HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7/PurePi configuration
The result is pretty positive. I clearly noticed more improvement made over the configuration without a UcCoditioner.
2. Replace the UcPure 3.3V battery power supply with a UcPure MKIII 3000F 3.3V ultracapacitor power supply.
UcPure 3000F ultracapacitor power supply could be so far the best ultra-low noise power supply in the real world. I have never found any power supply better than the UcPure.
When upgrading with UcPure, it again makes me realize how important the power supply is. The sound stage is fully open, deep and wide. The instruments sound images are now clearly from 3D pin points. The Spring3 R-2R has neve sounded as good as this.
I was trying to power the HdmiPiPro and the FifoPiQ7 clean side with two independent UcPures, but it didn’t make a real audible difference. It seems sharing the 3.3V power supply would be still good enough if the power supply reaches the level of a UcPure.
Let me explain why the passive UcPure ultracapacitor power supply is better than any active regulators or LDOs.
First, think of what is the working principle of a voltage regulator?
Any regulators are based on the control loops. Basically they are error amplifiers. The control loop uses the difference (error) between the output and voltage reference as a negative feedback to control the output current or the shunt element trying to reduce the error. However, in the real world, both input (AC) and load are changing dynamically. So the output voltage difference will always be there. A good low noise regulator can make the difference smaller but will never eliminate it.
Second, think of where the noises of a regulator come from?
They are the input has noise, the active components have noises, the internal voltage reference has noise, the control loop has noise. And there is no way to eliminate any of them.
Back to the UcPure ultracapacitor power supply. When it works in pure mode, there is no any power input, no active component involved. No control loop and feedback. Only the 230+230uOhm internal ESR. And the 3000F ultracapacitor itself is quieter (like a black hole) than any voltage references in active regulators. I think those are the reasons.
Tipes:
Next, I’m gonna try different clocks for Spring 3.
Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (1)
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...fight-the-jitter.192465/page-405#post-7220567
Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (2) setups
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...fight-the-jitter.192465/page-410#post-7237245
UpgradeUcConditioner by Ian, on Flickr
UcPureMkIIIPowerSupply by Ian, on Flickr
Ian
If the clock quality is the most significant thing for a DDC streamer transports, then the power supply would be the most significant thing for the clocks.
1. Add a UcConditioner Pi 3.3 to the HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7/PurePi configuration
The result is pretty positive. I clearly noticed more improvement made over the configuration without a UcCoditioner.
2. Replace the UcPure 3.3V battery power supply with a UcPure MKIII 3000F 3.3V ultracapacitor power supply.
UcPure 3000F ultracapacitor power supply could be so far the best ultra-low noise power supply in the real world. I have never found any power supply better than the UcPure.
When upgrading with UcPure, it again makes me realize how important the power supply is. The sound stage is fully open, deep and wide. The instruments sound images are now clearly from 3D pin points. The Spring3 R-2R has neve sounded as good as this.
I was trying to power the HdmiPiPro and the FifoPiQ7 clean side with two independent UcPures, but it didn’t make a real audible difference. It seems sharing the 3.3V power supply would be still good enough if the power supply reaches the level of a UcPure.
Let me explain why the passive UcPure ultracapacitor power supply is better than any active regulators or LDOs.
First, think of what is the working principle of a voltage regulator?
Any regulators are based on the control loops. Basically they are error amplifiers. The control loop uses the difference (error) between the output and voltage reference as a negative feedback to control the output current or the shunt element trying to reduce the error. However, in the real world, both input (AC) and load are changing dynamically. So the output voltage difference will always be there. A good low noise regulator can make the difference smaller but will never eliminate it.
Second, think of where the noises of a regulator come from?
They are the input has noise, the active components have noises, the internal voltage reference has noise, the control loop has noise. And there is no way to eliminate any of them.
Back to the UcPure ultracapacitor power supply. When it works in pure mode, there is no any power input, no active component involved. No control loop and feedback. Only the 230+230uOhm internal ESR. And the 3000F ultracapacitor itself is quieter (like a black hole) than any voltage references in active regulators. I think those are the reasons.
Tipes:
- The yellow Eaton 3000F ultracapacitors are so far the best I have ever used
- HdmiPiPro really makes difference over the TransportPi and the HdmiPi
Next, I’m gonna try different clocks for Spring 3.
Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (1)
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...fight-the-jitter.192465/page-405#post-7220567
Try to improve R-2R Holo Spring3 sound quality by HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7 DDC (2) setups
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...fight-the-jitter.192465/page-410#post-7237245
UpgradeUcConditioner by Ian, on Flickr
UcPureMkIIIPowerSupply by Ian, on FlickrIan
@AirAir
Difference between original UcPure and MkII and III
MKII over MKI
MKIII over MKII
Ian
Difference between original UcPure and MkII and III
MKII over MKI
- Add a 15V configuration besides the 3.3V and 5V
- Make the 5V as default configuration
- Bigger ON/OFF switch on top of the PCB
MKIII over MKII
- Add a powerful SYNC UC charging function. Can charge the UCs when music stops. To avoid output voltage drop or trigger the protection mode even if you listen to music for a very long time. SYNC control signal can be picked up from a FifoPiQ7. This signal will be isolated and more UcPure MKIII can work together with this signal.
- Much bigger and higher voltage smoothing capacitors. Make the UcPure MKIII works better for both AC and DC input and tolerance more to different input power supplies.
- Upgrade to heavy duty standard 5*20 glass fuse
- More than one UC group can be put in parallel to improve performance even more.
Ian
Hello @iancanada, all!
I have a problem with HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7, it doesn't work with my Gustard X16 DAC via I2S connector. I made an HDMI cable for it (in several versions-> 1.3-1.3; 1.3-3.1; 1.3-7.9; 1.3-9.7) but it was just noise (1.3 -1.3; 1.3-3.1) or the music played softly but the noise was stronger (1.3-7.9; 1.3-9.7). The I2S input cannot be set in software in the DAC. What kind of cable should be made for it to be good? Or do I need to replace the DAC? It doesn't work with SMSL DO200 MKII DAC either, and there the I2S input can be inverted by software. We tried it with Topping D70s DAC, it worked with the I2S MODE6 setting.
It would be nice if the output could be configured with DIP switches on the HdmiPiPro and adapted to the DAC.
Thank you in advance for your help and answer!
I have a problem with HdmiPiPro/FifoPiQ7, it doesn't work with my Gustard X16 DAC via I2S connector. I made an HDMI cable for it (in several versions-> 1.3-1.3; 1.3-3.1; 1.3-7.9; 1.3-9.7) but it was just noise (1.3 -1.3; 1.3-3.1) or the music played softly but the noise was stronger (1.3-7.9; 1.3-9.7). The I2S input cannot be set in software in the DAC. What kind of cable should be made for it to be good? Or do I need to replace the DAC? It doesn't work with SMSL DO200 MKII DAC either, and there the I2S input can be inverted by software. We tried it with Topping D70s DAC, it worked with the I2S MODE6 setting.
It would be nice if the output could be configured with DIP switches on the HdmiPiPro and adapted to the DAC.
Thank you in advance for your help and answer!
Please use standard HDMI cable. Use the 4K or 8K ones.
I don't have a Gustard, but my Holo Spring, Denafrips ARES and Topping D90 are all work great with HdmiPiPro.
Ian
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if i put this between the isolatorPi II and FifoPi Ma v1.5 will it work or will this combination not work at all?
Attachments
@iancanada I know, but is it also possible that I can connect a rotary, infrared and mpd oled screen via such a gpio adapter (raspberry pi of isolatorPi II gpio aux) because this does not work via the gpio aux FifoPiMa.
