Thanks for the encouraging words! When the cabinets are built, I am confident that everything else will work out, sooner or later. I am very grateful for your continued support!
Cables, hmmm... I will probably try braiding solid lacquered copper cable this time.
The spruce stuff: I found an english word used for the spruce panel: glulams. I also found some images on a website. Sorry, in swedish, but it seems they have some info also in english. Don't know if this gives you the right associations; there may be some differences due to geography, climate and flora concerning both choice of wood, where and when to use it, and maybe also pricing. We have lots of spruce and pine over here so glulams are probably comparatively cheap to use and easy to get.
Edit: sorry, forgot to tell you about the profiles: they all run along the direction of the "board" - it is as if you have taken one large piece of wood, spliced it into several thinner pieces and then glued them together again. No cutting across the fibers.
Cables, hmmm... I will probably try braiding solid lacquered copper cable this time.
The spruce stuff: I found an english word used for the spruce panel: glulams. I also found some images on a website. Sorry, in swedish, but it seems they have some info also in english. Don't know if this gives you the right associations; there may be some differences due to geography, climate and flora concerning both choice of wood, where and when to use it, and maybe also pricing. We have lots of spruce and pine over here so glulams are probably comparatively cheap to use and easy to get.
Edit: sorry, forgot to tell you about the profiles: they all run along the direction of the "board" - it is as if you have taken one large piece of wood, spliced it into several thinner pieces and then glued them together again. No cutting across the fibers.
Zix, I wish you success. It was my first real work with wood, if I don't count box for potatoes 🙂
As you saw on my pictures, I bought cut parts and I "just" milled them and glued.... and this took me around 200 hours. Your plan to have them next week seems for me a bit ambitious. I'm looking to hear from you progress you will do and please make a pictures 🙂
As you saw on my pictures, I bought cut parts and I "just" milled them and glued.... and this took me around 200 hours. Your plan to have them next week seems for me a bit ambitious. I'm looking to hear from you progress you will do and please make a pictures 🙂
I know, I am always that optimistic. 200 hours is a lot of time! On the other hand, the MLTL box will be a *lot* easier to build than a labyrinth TL. Also, perhaps I should clarify that "ready next weekend or the week after that" only means that the boxes don't fall apart and that there are holes in them for the drivers + the port and that the stuffing stays put on the inside, nothing more.
Materials look excellent from your description, and the site you linked to. Wish I could get that sort of thing cheaply in the UK. I'm no fan of vodoo cable science as you've prbably guessed, so what you describe sounds about spot on to me. Try a narrower than usual run for the Vifa mid-bass units though -the increased series resistance might help the bass slightly. You can always add some if you wish afterward.
Best
Scott
Best
Scott
quick building update
Well, I won't be finished this weekend, but I think I´ll make it until next. One cabinet is half finished. I had a carpenter cut out the boards to size, which, looking at the pieces and the precision of the cutting, was a good choice. Started drilling dowel holes and gluing this thursday. I have made some less than perfect drilling on the first speaker, specifically on the double thickness baffle and top where my jig tools proved inadequate, but I think it will be OK in the end.
Well, I won't be finished this weekend, but I think I´ll make it until next. One cabinet is half finished. I had a carpenter cut out the boards to size, which, looking at the pieces and the precision of the cutting, was a good choice. Started drilling dowel holes and gluing this thursday. I have made some less than perfect drilling on the first speaker, specifically on the double thickness baffle and top where my jig tools proved inadequate, but I think it will be OK in the end.
Hi!
Doing OK. I have had some problems cutting out the holes in the 40mm thick baffle and been a bit impractical, trying to find router bits long enough to cut all the way through it, which delayed the process a bit. I should´ve just turned them around and cut from the other side to begin with, that would have saved me a lot of time looking for inobtainium router bits.
The rest is as ready as can be, when the holes are finished (I think tomorrow night) I´ll mount the baffle and connect the drivers.
Filters will be put together as soon as possible after that with simple point-to-point wiring on a piece of wood or something.
Sometime next week I´ll probably hear them, but remember it will be first tests only. I also would like to hear these with tube amps, since that is what I will be using in the future, and have to do that at a friends´house.
Doing OK. I have had some problems cutting out the holes in the 40mm thick baffle and been a bit impractical, trying to find router bits long enough to cut all the way through it, which delayed the process a bit. I should´ve just turned them around and cut from the other side to begin with, that would have saved me a lot of time looking for inobtainium router bits.
The rest is as ready as can be, when the holes are finished (I think tomorrow night) I´ll mount the baffle and connect the drivers.
Filters will be put together as soon as possible after that with simple point-to-point wiring on a piece of wood or something.
Sometime next week I´ll probably hear them, but remember it will be first tests only. I also would like to hear these with tube amps, since that is what I will be using in the future, and have to do that at a friends´house.
update - continued miseries
Sorry to say I have had some more bad luck - sprained an ankle last week, which made it impossible for me to do any serious work on the 'speakers, just a little cable braiding. I have been waiting for some caps and inductors anyway, and they came today, so filter building can start now. But I am far behind schedule, and can't hope to have the speakers ready this week either. Just so you know I haven't gone fishing, or lost interest in DIY audio, or both. They will be built, I have just had some bad luck and a very busy time of life generally.
Sorry to say I have had some more bad luck - sprained an ankle last week, which made it impossible for me to do any serious work on the 'speakers, just a little cable braiding. I have been waiting for some caps and inductors anyway, and they came today, so filter building can start now. But I am far behind schedule, and can't hope to have the speakers ready this week either. Just so you know I haven't gone fishing, or lost interest in DIY audio, or both. They will be built, I have just had some bad luck and a very busy time of life generally.
Hi All,
I built a pair of Ariel 6c speakers a couple of years ago using the templates that chrish made (it made the job a lot simpler!). I love the tight base and crisp highs but am disappointed with the lack of bottom end bass on some music. Before I go down the expensive path of building a pair of subwoofers I would like to try applying a bit of bass equalisation to the Ariels.
I can get a Sallen-Key filter circuit which can be configured for either a sealed (12dB/oct rolloff) or vented (24dB/oct rolloff) enclosure. However I don't know what the rolloff slope of the Ariels is. Does anybody know or has anybody measured this parameter? I also need to know the 3dB cutoff frequency.
I would measure it myself but I don't have the equipment or the knowledge to do it.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
I built a pair of Ariel 6c speakers a couple of years ago using the templates that chrish made (it made the job a lot simpler!). I love the tight base and crisp highs but am disappointed with the lack of bottom end bass on some music. Before I go down the expensive path of building a pair of subwoofers I would like to try applying a bit of bass equalisation to the Ariels.
I can get a Sallen-Key filter circuit which can be configured for either a sealed (12dB/oct rolloff) or vented (24dB/oct rolloff) enclosure. However I don't know what the rolloff slope of the Ariels is. Does anybody know or has anybody measured this parameter? I also need to know the 3dB cutoff frequency.
I would measure it myself but I don't have the equipment or the knowledge to do it.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
I'm not sure if EQ is going to help very much Chris -there's only so much air those little Vifa's can shift you know. I'd bite the bullet and try SL's Thor subwoofers. Or a couple of small RELs if you don't fancy building them.
Best
Scott
Best
Scott
Hi Scott,
I actually emailed SL about matching the Ariels with a pair of THORs. He said the Ariel/THOR combination would only work if I closed off the ports on the Ariels to make them into sealed enclosures. After all that work building a tapered TL I can't bring myself to do it!
Seriously though, for the small cost of an EQ kit (Oz$20) I thought I might experiment with the idea anyway. I take your point about the small Vifa drivers though. I'm not expecting a huge increase in bass- any extra would be a bonus.
Regards.
I actually emailed SL about matching the Ariels with a pair of THORs. He said the Ariel/THOR combination would only work if I closed off the ports on the Ariels to make them into sealed enclosures. After all that work building a tapered TL I can't bring myself to do it!
Seriously though, for the small cost of an EQ kit (Oz$20) I thought I might experiment with the idea anyway. I take your point about the small Vifa drivers though. I'm not expecting a huge increase in bass- any extra would be a bonus.
Regards.
So back to my original question- does anybody know the bass rolloff slope of the Ariel 6c and the 3dB cutoff frequency?
I managed to find this freq response curve on a website belonging to a company that sells Ariel 6 kits. It gives the driver and port curves but not a combined response curve.
Help, I'm confused!
I managed to find this freq response curve on a website belonging to a company that sells Ariel 6 kits. It gives the driver and port curves but not a combined response curve.
Help, I'm confused!
Attachments
These are Lynn O:s curves. There are more of them on his website, but none of exactly this kind.
In his "Good Bass" section he recommends a crossover freq. around 80 Hz as a starting point.
<http://www.nutshellhifi.com/ME2txt.html#sw>
But, passing on the recommendations of a friend who has worked a long time to get the best performance with bass units for the ME2:s: these filters are room dependant. You will need to tweak both the frequency and the slope to your room. He ended up with a lower crossover frequency and a less steep slope than you would think is possible to use for the ME2:s, but it works great - in his room.
MLTL boxes are still not finished...
In his "Good Bass" section he recommends a crossover freq. around 80 Hz as a starting point.
<http://www.nutshellhifi.com/ME2txt.html#sw>
But, passing on the recommendations of a friend who has worked a long time to get the best performance with bass units for the ME2:s: these filters are room dependant. You will need to tweak both the frequency and the slope to your room. He ended up with a lower crossover frequency and a less steep slope than you would think is possible to use for the ME2:s, but it works great - in his room.
MLTL boxes are still not finished...
I've tried equalizing the Ariels and ME-2's low end. Bottom line, there's just not enough cone surface and X-max to get there from here.
You can get slightly more bottom end.... at the expense of the mids. You really don't want to go there.
Cyclotronguy
You can get slightly more bottom end.... at the expense of the mids. You really don't want to go there.
Cyclotronguy
Cyclotronguy,
Thanks for the heads up- you've saved me a lot of wasted time. Out of interest, did you add a separate sub(s) to the Ariels? If so, which ones and were you happy with the results? Thanks for taking the time.
Regards
Thanks for the heads up- you've saved me a lot of wasted time. Out of interest, did you add a separate sub(s) to the Ariels? If so, which ones and were you happy with the results? Thanks for taking the time.
Regards
I know Lynn suggests the RELs. I'd use two of their smaller models myself. Or a pair of self designed TLs. Or A smaller version of Admiral Nelson's El Pipeo with 8in drivers. www.passdiy.com
The list is long, often silly and frequently distinguished…complements of "The Great Pass" and his amazing inventory of common and obscure speaker drivers.
Lynn covers the issues quite well, forget the plastic cones… and don’t get too carried away with the very last ½ octave; you really need a woofer not necessarily a subwoofer.
One of the best woofers to match up with either the Ariel or ME-2 was the now impossible to find Audax HM210CO in a 9 foot TL. Another favorite is the Seas W-26 in a 2 ft^3 sealed box. Ditto for Lynn's four Vifa / Scanspeak's in twin sealed boxes.
If, you can get the woofers physically close… by all means use a pair of something, as Lynn suggested with the 180 Hz crossover point.
Cyclotronguy
Lynn covers the issues quite well, forget the plastic cones… and don’t get too carried away with the very last ½ octave; you really need a woofer not necessarily a subwoofer.
One of the best woofers to match up with either the Ariel or ME-2 was the now impossible to find Audax HM210CO in a 9 foot TL. Another favorite is the Seas W-26 in a 2 ft^3 sealed box. Ditto for Lynn's four Vifa / Scanspeak's in twin sealed boxes.
If, you can get the woofers physically close… by all means use a pair of something, as Lynn suggested with the 180 Hz crossover point.
Cyclotronguy