Okay, time for bagel-on-threaded-compression-driver measurement results please. I imagine the large torus with small center shape could be made by inflating material.
Earl,
Don't confuse the sound of the speakers with other things.
- most sound guys mix poorly, and way way too bright (they have lost hearing doing the job)
- the speakers will show what goes into them if they are actually good, and what is going in may or may not be any good.
- most venues have multiple nodes in the room, plus bad reflections, the result is wild variations in frequency response WRT sitting location.
- there is a ton of EQ and effects dumped into the signal path.
- multiple open mics makes a for a grand mess, talk about path length differences and comb filtering!
I always wear earplugs at live concerts, shows of the pop type or in anything but quiet or very acoustic venues. I hear about what the sound guy hears. (he's lost most of his top end entirely) There are earplugs with relatively flat freq response too. And custom made ones.
Until you get into a situation where the speakers are available and the signal path is under control, it's absolutely impossible to say what is going on.
_-_-bear
Don't confuse the sound of the speakers with other things.
- most sound guys mix poorly, and way way too bright (they have lost hearing doing the job)
- the speakers will show what goes into them if they are actually good, and what is going in may or may not be any good.
- most venues have multiple nodes in the room, plus bad reflections, the result is wild variations in frequency response WRT sitting location.
- there is a ton of EQ and effects dumped into the signal path.
- multiple open mics makes a for a grand mess, talk about path length differences and comb filtering!
I always wear earplugs at live concerts, shows of the pop type or in anything but quiet or very acoustic venues. I hear about what the sound guy hears. (he's lost most of his top end entirely) There are earplugs with relatively flat freq response too. And custom made ones.
Until you get into a situation where the speakers are available and the signal path is under control, it's absolutely impossible to say what is going on.
_-_-bear
Art
I understand the difficulty of sound reproduction in a large venue, I have done that myself, but that is beside the point. You claimed that the paralines sounded as smooth as headphones and from what I can see (from your own data as well as some that I have done) and what I have heard, you are deluding yourself.
I understand the difficulty of sound reproduction in a large venue, I have done that myself, but that is beside the point. You claimed that the paralines sounded as smooth as headphones and from what I can see (from your own data as well as some that I have done) and what I have heard, you are deluding yourself.
We own about a dozen of these and I think they sound pretty good. Especially considering their cost, size, weight and ease of use. The guys I work with think they sound like crap, but they are spoiled by the Meyer Sound boxes we typically use. 😉
I've been hoping to do an A/B listening test of the QSC vs Gedlee, but still haven't found the time. Soon, soon. Similar in size, shape and approach, but maybe very different in sound?
I said:
"The comb filtering has such small frequency intervals that it is not distracting, to my ears my PA using Paralines sounds as smooth as the headphones I use, even though the headphones measure much smoother."
I am not deluding myself that my PA is as smooth as my headphones are, only that I can not detect the difference in smoothness in a live concert setting.
That is not to say that others might have better hearing acuity than me.
I find the K-10s to be too wide dispersion for live concert use, I actually made "acoustical clouds" that fit in to their top handle to reduce the HF spill onto room ceilings.
Gedlee's speakers have a tighter dispersion pattern, they would "sound different" and be preferable to me in a live situation.
The Meyers cabinets have less vertical HF dispersion than either, I have found they sound decent.
My hearing is not great, but, as I said, the live situations that I have experienced do not compare well to good headphones or a home (PA 🙄) system. You must be very very good to get that kind of performance. That or ...
Oh you can hear shameless ripoffs of Earls PA speakers from decades ago. The only thing the unscrupulous guys in the time machine missed was the reticulated foam. Harley Peaveys guys at around 1999 were especially unscrupulous. As were the time machine people at Genelec in the eighties. I'm not sure but I think JBL might have also peaked into the future in the 80's
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I don't much care exactly who copied who with what when, but you might want to take a peek at Geddes' resume...
I am only partially kidding, the truth is there is really nothing new here but a re-marketin of a pa type speakers, which to my mind have always sounded better than commercial offerings. What I don't like to see is the "my way or the highway" thing that seems to be in vogue among the recent crop of idea recyclers in this country in general. No kidding are we really pretending that we have just learned that directivity is important? The progression from musician sound engineer and mixing mastering gig has illustrated that there is really no other alternative to speakers like those that Geddes is selling save for the very.real' possibility of Danley's breakthrough. I do admit to being irritated to hear that the "plebs" are insensitive to distortion. (yeah this type of "study" gave us mp3's) The truth is the compression driver and its low distortion is what makes these speakers sound so good. Now one more thing big radial horns went out for one reason only and that is size, a well design radial horn simply has no real problems. We all know the deal is size. Let's make no mistake here I very much appreciate the work being done for us by academic people like Earl Geddes, it is well worth our investment. As far as products go? A product sells itself on its own merit. Unless your name is Amir.
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Compression drivers are hands down the highest distortion transducers in audio.
How much is audible is completely a matter of how they are used, and specifics of source signals. For most people, most of the time, listening to most types of program, distortion is just not a problem.
Radiation constrained in direction always leads to response issues in confined spaces, highly limiting placement options of speakers and listeners for optimal sound.
Horns do exactly what physics dictates. Expectations are flawed by limited understanding.
How much is audible is completely a matter of how they are used, and specifics of source signals. For most people, most of the time, listening to most types of program, distortion is just not a problem.
Radiation constrained in direction always leads to response issues in confined spaces, highly limiting placement options of speakers and listeners for optimal sound.
Horns do exactly what physics dictates. Expectations are flawed by limited understanding.
No, just incrementally better implementations of controlled, uniform directivity strategies. You are right about the ideas involved being old (over half a century), and you're also right about specifically related designs dating back decades. You're just wrong about Geddes being late to the party, as his stuff dates back to 1990 or so.
No compression drivers on B&W 801s and plenty of distortion at more than modest levels and plenty of amp too I might add. More driver movement, more distortion, the kind you can hear. If you want appreciable spl out of a single driver you need an HF compression driver on a horn or headphones. Note I am totally on board with EGs speaker designs here, and I mix and master exclusively, and area where there has been limited use of compression drivers. Hip Hop is pop music now. It is listened to at very high levels, we need compression/horn monitors. I see my speakers moving, bad (-:
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Audibility of distortion is key. Low order distortion is easily masked.
Don't we want the radiation to go where the listeners are? I thought that this reduced the problems of confined spaces.
I'm going to do some tests myself to verify that a DE250 is producing more distortion than a XT25.
Geddes was at the party that much.is obvious, he didn't throw the party that too is obvious. This distinction seems to get glossed over here. I know some of these guys. I have worked in product development before there are nda's to sign and sometimes people do not get the credit they deserve. Which I found can also be a damn good thing however if you worked on a failed product. 😱
Charlie Hughes from Peavey notes that he worked with Geddes here:
Q&A: Charlie Hughes | audioXpress
He also credits Keele.
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