Must. Have been a trick of the light. I could have sworn it looked slightly curved at the sides in a sort of IRS homage way. My bad.
Finally(maybe)
Just completed the second speaker and now I am in audio heaven. I attached some rather beefy shelf brackets to the rear panel with adjusting screws for tilt.
At the moment they are each powered by a stock 3116d2 amp and sound pretty darn good. These will take pride of place in my music room, at least for a while.
Bill....I'll be flying to the UK, if it still there, in October. Let me know if you would like me to bring anything for your project.
Cheers
Peter
Just completed the second speaker and now I am in audio heaven. I attached some rather beefy shelf brackets to the rear panel with adjusting screws for tilt.
At the moment they are each powered by a stock 3116d2 amp and sound pretty darn good. These will take pride of place in my music room, at least for a while.
Bill....I'll be flying to the UK, if it still there, in October. Let me know if you would like me to bring anything for your project.
Cheers
Peter
Attachments
thanks for the pic.....cool look...
Wow as close as they are in your room...I guess you got Bass......
Wow as close as they are in your room...I guess you got Bass......
Waking the thread back up I'm still seriously backlogged but making some progress. One of my sticking points was finding drivers that would do the job that I could purchase when I had spare funds. I'd love to user peerless units as Davey did, but funds can't quite stretch that far at the moment, so been aiming my sights a bit lower. Now noting I have a sub to fill in the lower reaches and currently do not listen particularly loudly in a small room a search has thrown up the Fatal Pro 6FE100 at about half the price of the cheapest 6.5" peerless. Xmax is a bit lower than I would ideally like so won't be able to boost the low end much BUT I can scrape the money together for them.
Will be a baptism of fire in router use, but any good reason why these wouldn't work?
Will be a baptism of fire in router use, but any good reason why these wouldn't work?
I would get Davey's thoughts on those but heres where my mind goes...
1- You say your using a sub , so I wouldn't be concerned with X max, especially with multiple drivers
2- The MRT in such a design as yours needs a bit of enforcment and carful blending from woofers from about 1.2 khz on down. Even though they are typically electrically crossed over around 400 hz they can be a bit weak there and a carfully talylord woofer response to fill in a bit between say 500 to 1.2khz can go along way to getting things right especially dynamics and a sense of power.
3- The Fatal pro has a very nice response BUT I always wish we would see distortion profiles in the specs. I see a bit of wiggle in the impedance curve right where you will likley cross over. Would be nice to see what happens distortion wise right there as thats the blend area with the low distortion ribbon.
I have no experience with that woofer and it may be good but jus some things to think on...
1- You say your using a sub , so I wouldn't be concerned with X max, especially with multiple drivers
2- The MRT in such a design as yours needs a bit of enforcment and carful blending from woofers from about 1.2 khz on down. Even though they are typically electrically crossed over around 400 hz they can be a bit weak there and a carfully talylord woofer response to fill in a bit between say 500 to 1.2khz can go along way to getting things right especially dynamics and a sense of power.
3- The Fatal pro has a very nice response BUT I always wish we would see distortion profiles in the specs. I see a bit of wiggle in the impedance curve right where you will likley cross over. Would be nice to see what happens distortion wise right there as thats the blend area with the low distortion ribbon.
I have no experience with that woofer and it may be good but jus some things to think on...
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I was planning on crossing lower, around 400Hz as Peter did, but that will depend on measurements. Joy of miniDSP is all options can be tried.
Yes there has been much angst over the distortion but given that I only sit 2m from them in the current room, even at THx levels we are talking about an RMS level of around 60mW per driver if I don't put LF boost in. If in the future I get a bigger room and can play at higher levels then I can consider that.
Or put it another way, plan B is to leave the box on, go active and put a pair of scanspeak 18W8545 I have in. With that as the other option part of me feels the risk on the faitals is worth taking.
Yes there has been much angst over the distortion but given that I only sit 2m from them in the current room, even at THx levels we are talking about an RMS level of around 60mW per driver if I don't put LF boost in. If in the future I get a bigger room and can play at higher levels then I can consider that.
Or put it another way, plan B is to leave the box on, go active and put a pair of scanspeak 18W8545 I have in. With that as the other option part of me feels the risk on the faitals is worth taking.
I hear ya on the distortion thing. In fact my concern there is more to do with cone flexure and the properties of the material its made of and the particular color those materials add. Somthing Im not sure we understand all that well. Even at low levels this property is in force
Going to a point and the box simply doesnt match the dipole line IMO
Going to a point and the box simply doesnt match the dipole line IMO
I did seriously consider metal cones as the frequency range is low enough for the cone to be pistonic and don't have to worry about break up modes. something like the 835025. But twice the price.
The area why my acoustics knowledge is entirely lacking, is where the low frequency transition becomes non critical and I can swap to box subs without worry. 85Hz is banded around but I've never had a chance to test this for myself. The closer to 120Hz I can start the hand off, the less work the array has to do.
The area why my acoustics knowledge is entirely lacking, is where the low frequency transition becomes non critical and I can swap to box subs without worry. 85Hz is banded around but I've never had a chance to test this for myself. The closer to 120Hz I can start the hand off, the less work the array has to do.
Yea the metal cone is the easy way to avoid the material properties issue at lower freqs.
That said there is much to be said for exacution. Some have simply done the more flexy materials better than others and a good result can certainly be had. Flat response doesnt tell us what resonances are just well controlled supresed but still colored in sound.
The exact x over where box disapears as far as subs go tend to be more of a transient response thing IMO. The ribbon has a particular quality thats best matched by well damped system overall.
The ear seems to want a balanced overall system where things are matched in quality and characture across the range. IMO this is actually much more important than even low distortion measurment.
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-da175-8-7-aluminum-cone-woofer--295-335
havent any experience with this one but have heard good things. Nothing special in motor construction BUT with multiples and a sub it likley doesnt matter. Clean throught your crossover range , no wiggles in impeedance plot. I have used the 10 inch version of this driver. Also a simple motor so bass is not all that great in big box BUT was quite good p to 400 hz 18 db/oct. Above that it had a flat response but was uninspireing....but was impressed for a cheap 10 inch.
That said there is much to be said for exacution. Some have simply done the more flexy materials better than others and a good result can certainly be had. Flat response doesnt tell us what resonances are just well controlled supresed but still colored in sound.
The exact x over where box disapears as far as subs go tend to be more of a transient response thing IMO. The ribbon has a particular quality thats best matched by well damped system overall.
The ear seems to want a balanced overall system where things are matched in quality and characture across the range. IMO this is actually much more important than even low distortion measurment.
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-da175-8-7-aluminum-cone-woofer--295-335
havent any experience with this one but have heard good things. Nothing special in motor construction BUT with multiples and a sub it likley doesnt matter. Clean throught your crossover range , no wiggles in impeedance plot. I have used the 10 inch version of this driver. Also a simple motor so bass is not all that great in big box BUT was quite good p to 400 hz 18 db/oct. Above that it had a flat response but was uninspireing....but was impressed for a cheap 10 inch.
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what is 'magnapan style'?
The Dayton unit looks nice, but no supply in UK and everyone seems out of stock in europe at least for now.
The Dayton unit looks nice, but no supply in UK and everyone seems out of stock in europe at least for now.
Hello,
I am busy with a similar build to the image attached.
I am looking at crossing over at 125hz to a 12" then to an aluminum midbass 5.5" @ 800hz then to a 40" 5 segment ribbon.
The ribbon is 20mm wide and I am using neo magnets that are 50mm long by 10mm x 10mm.
Whats your thoughts on the design and xo?
I am busy with a similar build to the image attached.
I am looking at crossing over at 125hz to a 12" then to an aluminum midbass 5.5" @ 800hz then to a 40" 5 segment ribbon.
The ribbon is 20mm wide and I am using neo magnets that are 50mm long by 10mm x 10mm.
Whats your thoughts on the design and xo?
Africa
1- your baffle is quite small for the 12 inch low end. That small baffle will be rolling the low end off starting quite high in feq say around 300 hz and down. The EQ nessasary to compensate will send that driver into overload to get a flat response below 150 hz or so
2- your 5.5 inch is better mounted close to middle of ribbon
3- going from a "line" (ribbon) to a "point" (5.5inch) may result in one ideal listening distance. It can certainly work BUT be aware you may want to experament a bit with both sensativity level and listen distance
bill
what supplyer do u want to use?
1- your baffle is quite small for the 12 inch low end. That small baffle will be rolling the low end off starting quite high in feq say around 300 hz and down. The EQ nessasary to compensate will send that driver into overload to get a flat response below 150 hz or so
2- your 5.5 inch is better mounted close to middle of ribbon
3- going from a "line" (ribbon) to a "point" (5.5inch) may result in one ideal listening distance. It can certainly work BUT be aware you may want to experament a bit with both sensativity level and listen distance
bill
what supplyer do u want to use?
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Hi
My goal was to roll off the bass at 125hz and xo to mid but my concern was the distance between the bass driver and the midrange being situated so far apart in the middle of the ribbon. I know the Apogee hybrids use to position the midbass in the middle of the ribbon. This image was of a Dali skyline 1000 but there xo frequency were 250Hz & 6000hz. The 12" is a fantastic dipole driver that costs like 25usd. Hybrid 12h150
Cheers
Brian
My goal was to roll off the bass at 125hz and xo to mid but my concern was the distance between the bass driver and the midrange being situated so far apart in the middle of the ribbon. I know the Apogee hybrids use to position the midbass in the middle of the ribbon. This image was of a Dali skyline 1000 but there xo frequency were 250Hz & 6000hz. The 12" is a fantastic dipole driver that costs like 25usd. Hybrid 12h150
Cheers
Brian
Bass to mid distance shouldnt be an issue at that low x over
much more important from mid to ribbon
In the end u can get all sorts of arraingments to sound ok BUT over time the ear starts to hear the issues and it wont know whats wrong it will just kno somthing not exactly right.
I pplayed a bit with 12 inch with a small woofer to fill in just like u have there. In the end I actually liked the sound better when I got rid of the mid driver and x over from the 12 straight to the ribbon. It was a home made 12in with an exotic cone that was farly clean beyond 1 khz. Sure not as good as the 5
inch BUT to my ears the 3 way never sounded as "right". To many issues in a critical range.
much more important from mid to ribbon
In the end u can get all sorts of arraingments to sound ok BUT over time the ear starts to hear the issues and it wont know whats wrong it will just kno somthing not exactly right.
I pplayed a bit with 12 inch with a small woofer to fill in just like u have there. In the end I actually liked the sound better when I got rid of the mid driver and x over from the 12 straight to the ribbon. It was a home made 12in with an exotic cone that was farly clean beyond 1 khz. Sure not as good as the 5
inch BUT to my ears the 3 way never sounded as "right". To many issues in a critical range.
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Okay iv also have given a lot of thought around just going 2 way the ribbon certainly does well for 350hz to 20khz -4db. So I think should just go 2 way and xo at say 500hz I just need to go active on the bass.
I think the 3 way just complicats things.....
Thanks for the advice.
Cheers
Brian
I think the 3 way just complicats things.....
Thanks for the advice.
Cheers
Brian
yep many cones are good to 500 and 2 way is an order of magnitued easyer to get right
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