"pull move magnets" not sure what your saying?
I wouldnt move any magnets on the Appgees. Leave everythig as is . Run your traces same direction as Apps.
I did build a design once that had traces and mags from top to bottom. It was a corrugated design like the Apps. It worked preety good BUT IMO its best to have the foil under tension as in Apps design. The mechanical properties of the mylar is not up to task and tensioned foil is a better result.
I wouldnt move any magnets on the Appgees. Leave everythig as is . Run your traces same direction as Apps.
I did build a design once that had traces and mags from top to bottom. It was a corrugated design like the Apps. It worked preety good BUT IMO its best to have the foil under tension as in Apps design. The mechanical properties of the mylar is not up to task and tensioned foil is a better result.
Well I have read that Graz ...when installing the new bass driver have to realine the magnets.....some times for the best sound....do you know how this removal is done?
it looks to me these magnets may brake up into peaces....I gess thay can addmore magnets
I think your right about Apogee stage.. bass not being as ezey to make as one may think
but looks like you have done a lot of...trial an error...keep up the good work an let us know how it works out.....
it looks to me these magnets may brake up into peaces....I gess thay can addmore magnets
I think your right about Apogee stage.. bass not being as ezey to make as one may think
but looks like you have done a lot of...trial an error...keep up the good work an let us know how it works out.....
tyu,
I have a difficult time deciphering your posts.
Again with the "hate speech" accusation? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (this time) since possibly you are ignorant of the serious meaning those words have in current society. But if it continues I will certainly notify the moderators here.
I suggest to read up on the topic of "hate speech" to better inform yourself.
I suspect you might have known better...and that's why you removed your accusation initially. But then to re-employ it makes me wonder.
Dave.
I have a difficult time deciphering your posts.
Again with the "hate speech" accusation? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (this time) since possibly you are ignorant of the serious meaning those words have in current society. But if it continues I will certainly notify the moderators here.
I suggest to read up on the topic of "hate speech" to better inform yourself.
I suspect you might have known better...and that's why you removed your accusation initially. But then to re-employ it makes me wonder.
Dave.
well I oly had one pr of Stages and the magnets were well done on this pr. I can imagine however that some have magnets not quite installed as they should be. The magnets should be in line and properly spaced to get best result of course BUT I am not sure were to point of diminished returns are on that. In other words how much can the mags be off from perfect alignment and be a noticable problem Im not sure.
As far as removal of mags go, I dont know what adhesive is used on the Apps BUT I have removed mags from protos Ive made. I clamped them in a Vise grip style plier with a wide flat blade designed for sheet metal with rubber glued to jaws. Clap across the short dimension were the magnet is a bit stronger and wigle back and forth gently until adhesive begines to peal then it goes easy from there. Yes the mags crack some times and I just replace them , there cheap. Grade 5 or grade 8 ceramic.
There was some talk yrs ago of matching magnets so entire diaphragm has exact equill force. I tryed this once. i had a device we made that was basically a long coil of wire were the magnet passed under at a set speed and the field was ploted. The differences were small and in the end trying to get that many magnets that matched exactly turned out to be a very expensive affair. I got a pile that were withing some spec cant remember. Anyway I didnt notice a difference in performance so gave up on that BUT did use it to weed out magnets that were way off.
As far as removal of mags go, I dont know what adhesive is used on the Apps BUT I have removed mags from protos Ive made. I clamped them in a Vise grip style plier with a wide flat blade designed for sheet metal with rubber glued to jaws. Clap across the short dimension were the magnet is a bit stronger and wigle back and forth gently until adhesive begines to peal then it goes easy from there. Yes the mags crack some times and I just replace them , there cheap. Grade 5 or grade 8 ceramic.
There was some talk yrs ago of matching magnets so entire diaphragm has exact equill force. I tryed this once. i had a device we made that was basically a long coil of wire were the magnet passed under at a set speed and the field was ploted. The differences were small and in the end trying to get that many magnets that matched exactly turned out to be a very expensive affair. I got a pile that were withing some spec cant remember. Anyway I didnt notice a difference in performance so gave up on that BUT did use it to weed out magnets that were way off.
In time with the Old Apogee... some magnets could come lose.....I think this is more of what Graz point is .... a fix for the lose magnets... not so much pulling an realineing..of all the magnets.....but after owning minny Magnepans an seeing how off center some of the wire magnets panels lineups are off...an thay still sound great.....
I know the Magnepans are a diff setup... still I see what your saying....that's one of the problems....with all the biger Apogee ribbon bass drivers I see..one cause of the buzzing bass....over time just the heavyweight of all the magnets ....an moving the speakers around.....an then on top of that as Dave has showed in his youtube video ....the foil can be ripet vary ezely..... Vise grip style pliers ...wide flat blade ....vary good idea
Look like you been spending a lot time working on ribbons.....thanks
I know the Magnepans are a diff setup... still I see what your saying....that's one of the problems....with all the biger Apogee ribbon bass drivers I see..one cause of the buzzing bass....over time just the heavyweight of all the magnets ....an moving the speakers around.....an then on top of that as Dave has showed in his youtube video ....the foil can be ripet vary ezely..... Vise grip style pliers ...wide flat blade ....vary good idea
Look like you been spending a lot time working on ribbons.....thanks
about 20 yrs on and off as a DIY fan, full time ribbon work for the last year to bring a new ribbon design to market.
whats this vid ? Davey? I would like to see this...
Yea when the foil is in tension across width you have a situation where frame flex etc can damage the foil more easily than if the foil runs are top to bottom. The foil is not as resilient as the film, BUT that is part of the mechanical property that gives the good sound. Its less forgiving of tension errors BUT its better when all is right.
Much of the Apps bass apeal IMO is the way the region between about 200 hz and 50 hz is handled. The mehanical properties of the diaphragm and the tuning it allows are important. Old diaphragms will have issues here with or without the silicone fix BUT its still preety good and the midrange is still excelent
whats this vid ? Davey? I would like to see this...
Yea when the foil is in tension across width you have a situation where frame flex etc can damage the foil more easily than if the foil runs are top to bottom. The foil is not as resilient as the film, BUT that is part of the mechanical property that gives the good sound. Its less forgiving of tension errors BUT its better when all is right.
Much of the Apps bass apeal IMO is the way the region between about 200 hz and 50 hz is handled. The mehanical properties of the diaphragm and the tuning it allows are important. Old diaphragms will have issues here with or without the silicone fix BUT its still preety good and the midrange is still excelent
As I have stated here before....the last pr this year... of Apogee full ribbons...are the Caliper sig...why...no buzz...ribbon are good....price so low it like one night out..
In the 1990s I was into the Duetta sig...with all the Krell amp an preamps an D/a...Purist Audio Design cabel......but I have had 5 pr of Stages..an had them with the Duettas...an now with the Calipers..... have them one day... took me right back ...to what I found about any of these ribbon.... but the Stages.......
You must to have the right Electronic...to even begine to get the best sound .......this is why I step way from any thing biger than the Stages.....I can run them with tubes..are any good amp...with mods.... like in north creek crossover....an the sound of the Stage is more extended on the top an mid...bass is just right.....No..not bass.... like the biger Apogees...but I cant pay that price for just all that great bass...all just one mans finding
As to Dave video ....it the foil feeds on the side that can-did rip..not in the driver it self.......
In the 1990s I was into the Duetta sig...with all the Krell amp an preamps an D/a...Purist Audio Design cabel......but I have had 5 pr of Stages..an had them with the Duettas...an now with the Calipers..... have them one day... took me right back ...to what I found about any of these ribbon.... but the Stages.......
You must to have the right Electronic...to even begine to get the best sound .......this is why I step way from any thing biger than the Stages.....I can run them with tubes..are any good amp...with mods.... like in north creek crossover....an the sound of the Stage is more extended on the top an mid...bass is just right.....No..not bass.... like the biger Apogees...but I cant pay that price for just all that great bass...all just one mans finding
As to Dave video ....it the foil feeds on the side that can-did rip..not in the driver it self.......
What is the difference between Kapton and Mylar for Apogee Stage? I understand that Apogee started with Kapton and switch to Mylar.
"Mylar vs Kapton
The reason Apogee later went to Aluminized Mylar was that it could be etched by machine and more easily mass-produced. The original ribbons had to be tediously cut by hand one at a time. They also suffered some stress cracking in the Kapton film units. The ribbons were very fragile which led to unsustainably high field service and repair under warranty by dealers, costs which were then passed onto the company Apogee Acoustics." from hifi-advice.com-Christian Punter
What thickness of Mylar or Kapton was used? I have a yellow foil. This is Kapton or Mylar? And what thickness of aluminum foil?
One more question. I am in the process of buying an almost new (never used or at least very little, probably last year of production)) set of Apogee Mini Grand. Anybody knows what they worth?
"Mylar vs Kapton
The reason Apogee later went to Aluminized Mylar was that it could be etched by machine and more easily mass-produced. The original ribbons had to be tediously cut by hand one at a time. They also suffered some stress cracking in the Kapton film units. The ribbons were very fragile which led to unsustainably high field service and repair under warranty by dealers, costs which were then passed onto the company Apogee Acoustics." from hifi-advice.com-Christian Punter
What thickness of Mylar or Kapton was used? I have a yellow foil. This is Kapton or Mylar? And what thickness of aluminum foil?
One more question. I am in the process of buying an almost new (never used or at least very little, probably last year of production)) set of Apogee Mini Grand. Anybody knows what they worth?
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Stage MRT , .3 mil kapton / .3 mil silicone / .7 mil foil
Not sure what the bass panel is but suspect the same or close
Not sure what the bass panel is but suspect the same or close
Latest ribbon iteration
Recently made a totally new baffle/frame for my 26"ribbon and 4 no-name
woofers.
The front panel is 3/4" cherry backed up with two 1/2" plywood panels with cutouts that provide proper spacing for the ribbon assembly and a rear waveguide.
Only have one built at the moment. The other won't be ready for a few weeks.
Peter
Recently made a totally new baffle/frame for my 26"ribbon and 4 no-name
woofers.
The front panel is 3/4" cherry backed up with two 1/2" plywood panels with cutouts that provide proper spacing for the ribbon assembly and a rear waveguide.
Only have one built at the moment. The other won't be ready for a few weeks.
Peter
Attachments
Latest ribbon iteration
Recently made a totally new baffle/frame for my 26"ribbon and 4 no-name
woofers.
The front panel is 3/4" cherry backed up with two 1/2" plywood panels with cutouts that provide proper spacing for the ribbon assembly and a rear waveguide.
Only have one built at the moment. The other won't be ready for a few weeks.
Peter
Recently made a totally new baffle/frame for my 26"ribbon and 4 no-name
woofers.
The front panel is 3/4" cherry backed up with two 1/2" plywood panels with cutouts that provide proper spacing for the ribbon assembly and a rear waveguide.
Only have one built at the moment. The other won't be ready for a few weeks.
Peter
Sorry for the repeat post. Not sure how that happened. Must have been a senior moment.
Dave.... Yes the minidsp is essential for my purposes. It opened up a whole new chapter of the hobby for me.
Peter
Dave.... Yes the minidsp is essential for my purposes. It opened up a whole new chapter of the hobby for me.
Peter
Hi Peter,
I trust you are keeping well.
Tel me how have you wired the drivers and what xo have you used on the drivers and ribbons.
I am busy with a similar project but I am using some very cheap light weight 8" paper drivers but 6 per side.
I am struggling with the wiring of the drivers should I go with the power tappering method not really sure or experienced here.
Attachments
Peter: Once again you completely embarass me with my slow progress. That looks lovely. I do have two questions
1. Can you move the woofers any closer to the ribbon. With a 450Hz X-over not an issue but certainly a bit far apart for higher ones.
2. It looks like you have lost the 'wings' your last version had. Will be interested to know if that has any effect on LF response or whether you have more than enough headroom to eq that out.
1. Can you move the woofers any closer to the ribbon. With a 450Hz X-over not an issue but certainly a bit far apart for higher ones.
2. It looks like you have lost the 'wings' your last version had. Will be interested to know if that has any effect on LF response or whether you have more than enough headroom to eq that out.
IMO, you should not power-taper the drivers. Just wire in a normal series-parallel configuration to obtain a nominal impedance.
Dave.
Hi Dave,
So would it be 3 parallel and 3 series would a negative come from the top series driver and the positive from the bottom parallel driver?
Just Google series parallel speaker wiring and use a six speaker example.
Shavano Music Online - Speaker Wiring/Loading Examples
When wired correctly, all six speakers should move the same direction and exactly the same amount if excited with DC voltage.
Dave.
Brian....as Dave has suggested I usedseries/parallel arrangement and crossing at 350Hz LR4 both high and low. Not completely finalized yet.
Bill.....my previous mockup didn't have wings and these are an 1" wider at18".I have a little eq and the one reminds me a lot of the original Quad. The woofers on the new one are 1/2" closer to the ribbon.
Peter
Bill.....my previous mockup didn't have wings and these are an 1" wider at18".I have a little eq and the one reminds me a lot of the original Quad. The woofers on the new one are 1/2" closer to the ribbon.
Peter
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