Looks like your foot has been broking off....The Stage Bass panels is the only one with Mylar.....not capton.....if it is driven in time it well get worme....an well take up some of the slak......
But one thing i have done is to put new foam on the two cross bares on the Bass panel an dont over titen them down....Apogee only put foam on one side of the bares youll see......i put foam on ea side...when you put the bares back at the top an bottem thay should still move a littel.....Hehe....
I been wateing so long to have others do work on the Stages.....Killer Speaker....Life is just a Min...If you like ESL sound..
Dont miss the Apogee Stages if you see a pr...........Yes thay sound better than any Magnepan...an i got 3 pr of Magnepans Here Now....an i offen think of What Magnepan could Be......but i gess thay think there just good a nuff....lot fun
But one thing i have done is to put new foam on the two cross bares on the Bass panel an dont over titen them down....Apogee only put foam on one side of the bares youll see......i put foam on ea side...when you put the bares back at the top an bottem thay should still move a littel.....Hehe....
I been wateing so long to have others do work on the Stages.....Killer Speaker....Life is just a Min...If you like ESL sound..
Dont miss the Apogee Stages if you see a pr...........Yes thay sound better than any Magnepan...an i got 3 pr of Magnepans Here Now....an i offen think of What Magnepan could Be......but i gess thay think there just good a nuff....lot fun
Hi John, What's the quality like of the German made ribbons?. And what all do you get with them? Thanks
Quality? I have not even opened the box yet. From what I heard, as good if not better than Graz. Pricing were very similar too (euro may have been higher then).
From what I read, he used to be in Graz' approved installer / fabricator list until a falling out? Don't know...
This has got me psyched to restart the project... a nice winter project...I was just thinking the other day of just selling off the project as I am quite happy with the 2+2, but this thread has my juices flowing again...
Come to think of it, I should open the container to see what is in it....maybe a block of wood? yikes...
Included were a tube of new silicone, sealed container with new woofer panels (unopened), new foam strips, instruction booklet.
From what I read, he used to be in Graz' approved installer / fabricator list until a falling out? Don't know...
This has got me psyched to restart the project... a nice winter project...I was just thinking the other day of just selling off the project as I am quite happy with the 2+2, but this thread has my juices flowing again...
Come to think of it, I should open the container to see what is in it....maybe a block of wood? yikes...
Included were a tube of new silicone, sealed container with new woofer panels (unopened), new foam strips, instruction booklet.
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John................Boy that can set you back......But Yes get a pr of Stages....
From the 90s on... i have been trying to get away from the Apogees....but thay keep pulling me back in....the prs i have got now ....were on CL....that set there for 6 weeks...No one would tuch them....i gave $250.for Centaur Minor .....$300. stages...gofi....i got the Centaur Minor as backup mid-tweeter....but thay are vary Sweet an 50watt tube can run you out of the room...Wow...Lot fun An great sound
An right thay can be Moved vary ezely....to get the best image an staging....other Big Apogee not so much..
From the 90s on... i have been trying to get away from the Apogees....but thay keep pulling me back in....the prs i have got now ....were on CL....that set there for 6 weeks...No one would tuch them....i gave $250.for Centaur Minor .....$300. stages...gofi....i got the Centaur Minor as backup mid-tweeter....but thay are vary Sweet an 50watt tube can run you out of the room...Wow...Lot fun An great sound
An right thay can be Moved vary ezely....to get the best image an staging....other Big Apogee not so much..
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Well, it's a shame Graz doesn't supply any woofer ribbons separately. I think any DIY minded can quite easily exchange the foils. Nothing mystical or space-technology involved, people manufactured these in the first place. I do have great admiration for Spiegel & Bloom for engineering such wonderful speakers. Looking (and listening) to Magnepan they are like toys and a much weaker construction in all aspects. Sorry Magnepan owners, but this is how I feel.
tyu, north creek crossovers are unfortunately out of my league, way too expensie to try out..
I can only imagine how you felt John after dropping that multimeter!! I'm confident the Scinnies will sound excellent once finished!
tyu, north creek crossovers are unfortunately out of my league, way too expensie to try out..
I can only imagine how you felt John after dropping that multimeter!! I'm confident the Scinnies will sound excellent once finished!
Heres a funny..........Frist pr of stages i got ....it was after i saw were Mr bloom had been asket...why such a littel ribbon speaker??
Well... the stages bass has the Surface Area of 4ea 12" drivers.....an the 26" mid-tweeter SurFace....is like 20ea 1" medel Dome driver hanging in free Air.....was good a nuf for me...
I gess for some it is hard... to get there head around this... But do we wont more than that in the nor. room?
In the 80-90s...The B&W 801s 802s ADS.......Were kill my ears...i had to give the Stages a go...
Well... the stages bass has the Surface Area of 4ea 12" drivers.....an the 26" mid-tweeter SurFace....is like 20ea 1" medel Dome driver hanging in free Air.....was good a nuf for me...
I gess for some it is hard... to get there head around this... But do we wont more than that in the nor. room?
In the 80-90s...The B&W 801s 802s ADS.......Were kill my ears...i had to give the Stages a go...
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WOW! 🙂😀 . Just listened to the first tune after letting the last silicone cure overnight. The speakers sound much more dynamic, purer, and with more bass! Maybe some definition is lost in the lowest range, but overall a considerably cleaner representation also in the midrange.
On one woofer I made a preliminary adjustment to take out the excessive slack, there was some slight noise on this panel even after the silicone treatment. The adjustment only by looking and listening to a bass tune, turned the tuning knob only about 1/8 th of a turn or so. Will have to do a proper measurement after all settles in and biggest excitement goes away. At the same time I noticed that a bit further up from the slack the woofer ribbon plays slightly out of phase on a small portion..probably due to the not so well aligned magnets. But I'm happy so far!
On one woofer I made a preliminary adjustment to take out the excessive slack, there was some slight noise on this panel even after the silicone treatment. The adjustment only by looking and listening to a bass tune, turned the tuning knob only about 1/8 th of a turn or so. Will have to do a proper measurement after all settles in and biggest excitement goes away. At the same time I noticed that a bit further up from the slack the woofer ribbon plays slightly out of phase on a small portion..probably due to the not so well aligned magnets. But I'm happy so far!
Good job.....sounds like there geting better an better.........can you give a pic of your crossover....there new speakers post....so some work has been done inside...Thanks
Here's one pic I took, it appears to be stock crossover and looks like original parts when compared to pics I found on the internet. I will swap the binding posts back to originals at some point.
Looks like thay were made a day ago........One thing after 20 yeas of me haveing the TM switch on noml.......Why..... these are the worst sounding Switchs on earth!....KIll the sound....
if you try the 2db higher output ..... leave the switch in the noml seting .....it open...
Just jump in side with small wire.....
Nite & Day diff than the swetch..... Sound great image is taller.... biger Sound stage.....In my room it just better....20 years.....hehe
I like the sound of the old stock loose hand wound coils an cap......The North Ceek is a New Crossover.....Not just new parts
I have heard stock stages with new coils an caps........Not the same speaker...
have fun....
if you try the 2db higher output ..... leave the switch in the noml seting .....it open...
Just jump in side with small wire.....
Nite & Day diff than the swetch..... Sound great image is taller.... biger Sound stage.....In my room it just better....20 years.....hehe
I like the sound of the old stock loose hand wound coils an cap......The North Ceek is a New Crossover.....Not just new parts
I have heard stock stages with new coils an caps........Not the same speaker...
have fun....
Mybe bolserst or others...........
Can give some insite on the Crossover.... an is this called A trap...
that the switch bypasses? .....
So that the M-T only sees the 70mf.....an what dose a trap do?.....
too me sounds like it roll the M-T down to blind...but the bass can get a littel out of wak-heavy....with the trap in.....noml..
my room is 18'X30'......Stages are 13' off the front wall...........11'apart..Big sound...hehe
Thanks
Can give some insite on the Crossover.... an is this called A trap...
that the switch bypasses? .....
So that the M-T only sees the 70mf.....an what dose a trap do?.....
too me sounds like it roll the M-T down to blind...but the bass can get a littel out of wak-heavy....with the trap in.....noml..
my room is 18'X30'......Stages are 13' off the front wall...........11'apart..Big sound...hehe
Thanks
Attachments
![stage_crossover[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/396/396844-a0d727374c499bb17e41d0daa532bded.jpg?hash=oNcnN0xJm7)
I remember listening to the Calipers when they came out and with money in hand was ready to but a pair.
But the first bass transient, they flapped against the panel easily, and these were a few weeks old. Needless to say I never bought a pair.
I have heard good things about the stage and was wondering if these are sufficiently different than the Calipers in dimension to rule out this?
Maybe serarate subs and crossovers is best overall to keep it in check?
Regards
David
But the first bass transient, they flapped against the panel easily, and these were a few weeks old. Needless to say I never bought a pair.
I have heard good things about the stage and was wondering if these are sufficiently different than the Calipers in dimension to rule out this?
Maybe serarate subs and crossovers is best overall to keep it in check?
Regards
David
Mini-Grand ...........Stages on a box with two 8" drivers.......crossover at 60-80hz with Apogees DAX
Never heard them......
I run my 5pr of Stages...... are any other speaker i put in my room with two subs.... run the Stages fullrang...subs at 50-60hz...i just fill in what i need...
One thing is for sure even the Calciper Sig...... Sensitivity @ 3m 84dB .....
I can run the Stages with a pr of Dynaco MK3s.....a good 50 tube watts....The Bigers Apogees have sounded so good to me....but my Duittas sig...Killed me with never ending buzzzzzz...zzz... hhehe...an this was in 1994-5....
Any of the fullrang ribbon i have found... you better have a amp like Krell KSA250 or like i had krell MDA300s monos...but you better like the sound of the amp!.....
...Great sound....but i longed for the sound of tubes....NOt going to happen at the SPL i need....but the stages....if you like panels....get some!....
Never heard them......
I run my 5pr of Stages...... are any other speaker i put in my room with two subs.... run the Stages fullrang...subs at 50-60hz...i just fill in what i need...
One thing is for sure even the Calciper Sig...... Sensitivity @ 3m 84dB .....
I can run the Stages with a pr of Dynaco MK3s.....a good 50 tube watts....The Bigers Apogees have sounded so good to me....but my Duittas sig...Killed me with never ending buzzzzzz...zzz... hhehe...an this was in 1994-5....
Any of the fullrang ribbon i have found... you better have a amp like Krell KSA250 or like i had krell MDA300s monos...but you better like the sound of the amp!.....
...Great sound....but i longed for the sound of tubes....NOt going to happen at the SPL i need....but the stages....if you like panels....get some!....
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I listened to the original Calipers years ago and the positioning was not the best, so difficult to say.
The Stage is a smaller speaker than Caliper and the design&layout of the ribbons is a bit different. If you have a big listening room and want to play loud, adding subwoofers and cutting off the lowest frequencies from the Stages would probably be wise. I'm going to do this at some point with two Sb Acoustics SB23NRXS or maybe Wavecor's new 8" drivers below each speaker.
The Stage is a smaller speaker than Caliper and the design&layout of the ribbons is a bit different. If you have a big listening room and want to play loud, adding subwoofers and cutting off the lowest frequencies from the Stages would probably be wise. I'm going to do this at some point with two Sb Acoustics SB23NRXS or maybe Wavecor's new 8" drivers below each speaker.
Hi everyone here...
This thread is just amazing. I also have a pair of Stages which have some buzzing when playing deep bass.
Thank you Taotao for dropping in and confirm that your speakers still works fine years after you applied the Silicone. I have some concern regarding the longevity of the Silicone and I'm afraid that it might dry out or something. I guess it will be pretty much impossible to remove it again but might to some extend be possible på apply a new outer layer?
Taotao, how many years have it been since you applied your fix?
We really have to be extra careful here since if we do a mistake on the Stage's Bass ribbon, we are really screwed. Graz doesn't want to make replacement Bass ribbons for the Stage but what about this German guy, John65b have bought ribbons from? Does John or anyone else have more information about him. I can't find much on Google.
...and thank you Samppo for the precise instructions and the fine pictures. I will order the Zhermack HT33 stuff soon.
The only Silicone Oil I could find on Amazon.de is this: "GUN OIL 4oz 118ml - Silicone lube". The link is
GUN OIL 4oz 118ml - Silicone lube: Amazon.de: Drogerie & Krperpflege
Was that the one you used together with the Zhermack HT33 stuff?
Another thing which might have interest for other Apogee owners. I haven't seen anybody else talking about it but if it happened for me, it probably also can happen for other owners.
On one of my Stages I noticed there was some buzzing sounds, which I first though came from the Bass membrane. However, it turned out to be mostly mechanical vibrations in the large inductor coil in the crossover??? The buzzing sound could be mistaken for the dreaded Bass ribbon rattling and it only happened playing really Bass heavy music at fairly high volume.
Pressing hard on the coil with your fingers stopped or minimized the snerring. I put some standard white "wood glue" into the coil and let it dry. This treatment "killed" the coils buzzing sound but of course not the actual Bass ribbons buzzing, which have since become worse on my pair. Silicone treatment should fix that...I hope 🙂
Regards
Martin Roerup
This thread is just amazing. I also have a pair of Stages which have some buzzing when playing deep bass.
Thank you Taotao for dropping in and confirm that your speakers still works fine years after you applied the Silicone. I have some concern regarding the longevity of the Silicone and I'm afraid that it might dry out or something. I guess it will be pretty much impossible to remove it again but might to some extend be possible på apply a new outer layer?
Taotao, how many years have it been since you applied your fix?
We really have to be extra careful here since if we do a mistake on the Stage's Bass ribbon, we are really screwed. Graz doesn't want to make replacement Bass ribbons for the Stage but what about this German guy, John65b have bought ribbons from? Does John or anyone else have more information about him. I can't find much on Google.
...and thank you Samppo for the precise instructions and the fine pictures. I will order the Zhermack HT33 stuff soon.
The only Silicone Oil I could find on Amazon.de is this: "GUN OIL 4oz 118ml - Silicone lube". The link is
GUN OIL 4oz 118ml - Silicone lube: Amazon.de: Drogerie & Krperpflege
Was that the one you used together with the Zhermack HT33 stuff?
Another thing which might have interest for other Apogee owners. I haven't seen anybody else talking about it but if it happened for me, it probably also can happen for other owners.
On one of my Stages I noticed there was some buzzing sounds, which I first though came from the Bass membrane. However, it turned out to be mostly mechanical vibrations in the large inductor coil in the crossover??? The buzzing sound could be mistaken for the dreaded Bass ribbon rattling and it only happened playing really Bass heavy music at fairly high volume.
Pressing hard on the coil with your fingers stopped or minimized the snerring. I put some standard white "wood glue" into the coil and let it dry. This treatment "killed" the coils buzzing sound but of course not the actual Bass ribbons buzzing, which have since become worse on my pair. Silicone treatment should fix that...I hope 🙂
Regards
Martin Roerup
Hi Martin,
This is the stuff I ordered:
Premium Silikonöl 500ml geruchs- und geschmacksneutral. Öl: Amazon.de: Kche & Haushalt
0,5kg PLATIN RTV Silikon HT 33 (33ShA) für Formenbau, Modellbau, SFX, Toys, Gießform, Abformung. Kautschuk: Amazon.de: Kche & Haushalt
For the foils I think this is the guy:
ESL,Elektrostaten,electrostatis,Lautsprecher, Loudspeaker, Designers and Manufacturers of Electrostatic Loudspeakers and Fine Audiophile Equipment, Electrostatic Loudspeakers, Electrostatic Loudspeaker kits,DIY Electrostatic Loudspeakers, Electrostat
Do keep us posted how your repair is proceeding🙂
This is the stuff I ordered:
Premium Silikonöl 500ml geruchs- und geschmacksneutral. Öl: Amazon.de: Kche & Haushalt
0,5kg PLATIN RTV Silikon HT 33 (33ShA) für Formenbau, Modellbau, SFX, Toys, Gießform, Abformung. Kautschuk: Amazon.de: Kche & Haushalt
For the foils I think this is the guy:
ESL,Elektrostaten,electrostatis,Lautsprecher, Loudspeaker, Designers and Manufacturers of Electrostatic Loudspeakers and Fine Audiophile Equipment, Electrostatic Loudspeakers, Electrostatic Loudspeaker kits,DIY Electrostatic Loudspeakers, Electrostat
Do keep us posted how your repair is proceeding🙂
Hi Martin,
the silicon is softened by the silicon oil.
This oil is not fleeting, I mean it doesn`t vaporize in the air.
You should steer the mixture very well; so that the oil and the silicone will be very homogeneous mixed.
Doing so, the "trapped" oil can`t go away and the mix stays soft a long time.
I don`t know, when I did mine (maybe ten or more years ago), but when I poke into the silicone, it`s still very soft.
Do a test-mixture before applying, let it dry overnight, it should feel very soft.
In my opinion, the stuff lasts a live long and stays elastic and soft.
Keep us informed about your progess...🙂
the silicon is softened by the silicon oil.
This oil is not fleeting, I mean it doesn`t vaporize in the air.
You should steer the mixture very well; so that the oil and the silicone will be very homogeneous mixed.
Doing so, the "trapped" oil can`t go away and the mix stays soft a long time.
I don`t know, when I did mine (maybe ten or more years ago), but when I poke into the silicone, it`s still very soft.
Do a test-mixture before applying, let it dry overnight, it should feel very soft.
In my opinion, the stuff lasts a live long and stays elastic and soft.
Keep us informed about your progess...🙂
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This silicon oil Buzzz fix mod well add Mass to the ribbon!
The Stage Basslowermid driver... is a lot smaller than the Duettas.....
Duetta can get a way with a littel Added mass....
The foum Apogee used was not glued to the ribbon...
If i ever have to do the silicon oil fix it well be in the smallest spot were the buzz is....An only on one side of the bass driver......
I have put Silcon on the 10" bass driver as a seal in my ML.....Wow i went back to foum as quik as i could..the Silcon suck the life out of the driver sound...gofi
After 5 pr of Stages i can say any mass added to any part of these great speaker can kill there magic.....An any mod on the coils ...wire... cap...Buzzing can be fixet with a small peace of blu-tak...an then i can always go back an pull it off...to see were the sound was.....poring glue on the coils....is a one way trip....Hehe
Just put your own crossover togather...new coils an caps wire......but keep the all stock board!
Good luck on all the work on the Apogee....an thanks taotao...an others for any an all info................
The Stage Basslowermid driver... is a lot smaller than the Duettas.....
Duetta can get a way with a littel Added mass....
The foum Apogee used was not glued to the ribbon...
If i ever have to do the silicon oil fix it well be in the smallest spot were the buzz is....An only on one side of the bass driver......
I have put Silcon on the 10" bass driver as a seal in my ML.....Wow i went back to foum as quik as i could..the Silcon suck the life out of the driver sound...gofi
After 5 pr of Stages i can say any mass added to any part of these great speaker can kill there magic.....An any mod on the coils ...wire... cap...Buzzing can be fixet with a small peace of blu-tak...an then i can always go back an pull it off...to see were the sound was.....poring glue on the coils....is a one way trip....Hehe
Just put your own crossover togather...new coils an caps wire......but keep the all stock board!
Good luck on all the work on the Apogee....an thanks taotao...an others for any an all info................
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