Sure, very positive ... look at the new RAVEN "point source"
To make a ribbon more effektive you can use VERY big magnets, AND lighter ribbon
With big magnets you need to use "poleplates"
I have "invented" this design ... but I guess you will find similar in commercial designs
You can use ceramic magnet and will only need ONE pr ribbon
It will take a while before I have time to build it, so you have my permission to try it first ... and to be honest, I am a bit scared of this magnet
This magnet measure 6x4x2 INCHES ... be very carefull, its dangerous, and I have no clew how to handle this "little thing" ... it would be more practical to assemble before magnetizing, but not possible in diy
http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=57
To make a ribbon more effektive you can use VERY big magnets, AND lighter ribbon
With big magnets you need to use "poleplates"
I have "invented" this design ... but I guess you will find similar in commercial designs
You can use ceramic magnet and will only need ONE pr ribbon
It will take a while before I have time to build it, so you have my permission to try it first ... and to be honest, I am a bit scared of this magnet
This magnet measure 6x4x2 INCHES ... be very carefull, its dangerous, and I have no clew how to handle this "little thing" ... it would be more practical to assemble before magnetizing, but not possible in diy
http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=57
Attachments
full range planars
Hi, Why are you all only interested in ribbons which only cover the high frequencies? When you can build a full range planar which goes down to 17 hz and doesn,t need a crossover, and can be accomodated on a size 21" x 24" x 2.5" frame . Using about 500 neos for a pair of speakers. This is a lot easier to build, and you don,t need to corrugate the ribbon, just stick it on a plastic rubish bag suspended about 3 to 4 mm above the magnets. The neo magnets only need to be 3mm in thickness. A lot safer than all those big magnets, very dangerous!!
Jamesbos
Hi, Why are you all only interested in ribbons which only cover the high frequencies? When you can build a full range planar which goes down to 17 hz and doesn,t need a crossover, and can be accomodated on a size 21" x 24" x 2.5" frame . Using about 500 neos for a pair of speakers. This is a lot easier to build, and you don,t need to corrugate the ribbon, just stick it on a plastic rubish bag suspended about 3 to 4 mm above the magnets. The neo magnets only need to be 3mm in thickness. A lot safer than all those big magnets, very dangerous!!
Jamesbos
FULL RANGE PLANARS
Hi,
If you go to page 6 in this section you will see the threads, and if you go to TUBES then photo gallery page 59 you will see 3 photos which will give you enough detail. You can either use ferrites or neos, but the neos are a lot better.The neos only have to be 3mm thick any bigger and they are too dangerous and hard to handle. All the best Anthony.
Hi,
If you go to page 6 in this section you will see the threads, and if you go to TUBES then photo gallery page 59 you will see 3 photos which will give you enough detail. You can either use ferrites or neos, but the neos are a lot better.The neos only have to be 3mm thick any bigger and they are too dangerous and hard to handle. All the best Anthony.
I Would Build planars (Or have a go)but it seems to me you wont be able to turn them up loud as the diaphram is so close to the magnets. I like to have the power behigned my music and even though i dont usually listen loud,sometimes i do have to turn it up and its frustrating when you just listen to that very song and you want some big volume...On another note Does anybody use there ribbon tweeters or ribbons With valve amps?I was using my valve amp for mids, highs but my solidstate lower amp is alot louder on the ribbons????so i have to put them on my solidstate to get Better efficiancy...Any ideas???On the other hand i just thought,i use horn mids which are too efficiant but still if i use a production tweeter its not bad for loudness so im sort of confused!🙁
Hi Daz,
The full range planar design doesn't need woofers, horn midrange or ribbon tweeters it is a fully intergrated system so you don't have to level the levels so to speak.
the nearer the ribbon to the magnets, the more sensitive the speaker becomes, so you don't have to turn up the volume !!
I use 2 valve amplifiers one in the living room and one in my sunroom. amp 1 is a P/P Amp using 6AU5GT's (4) as the output valves. about 11watts. (my own design). This drives a 4' x 2' neo full range planar quite adequately. Amp No 2 is my own designed universal SE Amp which can use up to 12 different valves to drive the speakers. Universal indeed. So you can use your favourite valves or the ones you have. As long as you use the same pin out as a EL 34. Using a meter and switching and potentiometers to set the correct bias !! I use this one to drive the main planar (21" x 24" x 2.5") I also use a second hand transistor amp to drive the rear speakers which are a bit smaller. I drive the valve amp from the headphone output of the DVD player. To balance the rear speakers I use the rear output of the DVD player to drive the rear speakers thro' the transistor Amp. Iwas going to use a 5.1 Amp but my Granson has borrowed it for now.
If you do need more volume you can use a more powerfull transistor Amp, especially if the source is low i.e. classical music or you could use a pre-amp with your valve amp. If the design is good and the third harmonic distortion is not too high. I have been building full range planars over the last 20 years, my first design is still working now. I had one speaker which was struck by lightning which blew a fuse and ruined 2 valves I rebuilt the membrane in a couple of hours, I still have the scars on the grill cloth to remind me. If it had been a expensive cone speaker it would have cost a lot more than £4 to repair, even if you could have got the parts You don't need any special frames, supports, large metal clamps, strong glue or major engineering. Just wood, rubbish bag, magnets perforated steel and aluminium ribbon.
It costs about 3 or 4 pounds for the membrane, which can be replaced easily and quickly. The hardest part of the job is sticking the tape on the rubbish bag, especially at my age (69). So if I CAN make a pair of speakers in a week so can you.
All the best Anthony.
The full range planar design doesn't need woofers, horn midrange or ribbon tweeters it is a fully intergrated system so you don't have to level the levels so to speak.
the nearer the ribbon to the magnets, the more sensitive the speaker becomes, so you don't have to turn up the volume !!
I use 2 valve amplifiers one in the living room and one in my sunroom. amp 1 is a P/P Amp using 6AU5GT's (4) as the output valves. about 11watts. (my own design). This drives a 4' x 2' neo full range planar quite adequately. Amp No 2 is my own designed universal SE Amp which can use up to 12 different valves to drive the speakers. Universal indeed. So you can use your favourite valves or the ones you have. As long as you use the same pin out as a EL 34. Using a meter and switching and potentiometers to set the correct bias !! I use this one to drive the main planar (21" x 24" x 2.5") I also use a second hand transistor amp to drive the rear speakers which are a bit smaller. I drive the valve amp from the headphone output of the DVD player. To balance the rear speakers I use the rear output of the DVD player to drive the rear speakers thro' the transistor Amp. Iwas going to use a 5.1 Amp but my Granson has borrowed it for now.
If you do need more volume you can use a more powerfull transistor Amp, especially if the source is low i.e. classical music or you could use a pre-amp with your valve amp. If the design is good and the third harmonic distortion is not too high. I have been building full range planars over the last 20 years, my first design is still working now. I had one speaker which was struck by lightning which blew a fuse and ruined 2 valves I rebuilt the membrane in a couple of hours, I still have the scars on the grill cloth to remind me. If it had been a expensive cone speaker it would have cost a lot more than £4 to repair, even if you could have got the parts You don't need any special frames, supports, large metal clamps, strong glue or major engineering. Just wood, rubbish bag, magnets perforated steel and aluminium ribbon.
It costs about 3 or 4 pounds for the membrane, which can be replaced easily and quickly. The hardest part of the job is sticking the tape on the rubbish bag, especially at my age (69). So if I CAN make a pair of speakers in a week so can you.
All the best Anthony.
jamesbros, any chance you could be more specific with your links?
By the way, have you checked out my link to ribbon drivers? its under this forum, just search for the word "ribbon".
Hope that helps
Tade
By the way, have you checked out my link to ribbon drivers? its under this forum, just search for the word "ribbon".
Hope that helps
Tade
Interesting HENRY.I suppose that sounds right with the close magnets but this ribbon foil you use,where can i buy this?Do you have any more details of your planars?What do the ohms work out to be?Also what type of rubbish bag do you use?Is it a thin house hold bag or a black outside bin-liner?thanks.
Hi Mike ,
No I don't have a website, but if you go to post 424 it will lead to 3 photos which will give you all the relavent details.
The article by Ole Thofte called 'Ribbons on a Shoestring' which appeared in Hi-Fi News and Record Review in October1988, started me of on my full range planar building.
It's kept me busy and interested ever since.
Regards Henry.
No I don't have a website, but if you go to post 424 it will lead to 3 photos which will give you all the relavent details.
The article by Ole Thofte called 'Ribbons on a Shoestring' which appeared in Hi-Fi News and Record Review in October1988, started me of on my full range planar building.
It's kept me busy and interested ever since.
Regards Henry.
Hi Daz,
I don't use the thin ones, I use the rubble sacks about 9 hundreths of a millimeter. Although you could try the thinner ones as they don't cost much to make !!
You can get the foil from CPC it is used as a anti burgular device on windows. The Impedance on the 4' x 2' is just under 4 Ohms, and it is about 2.4 on the 21" x 24". This of course depends on the size of magnets and the No. used. The 4' x 2' uses about 1100 neos for a pair. cost about £600. The magnets for the 21" x 24" (500) cost about £290. This price is conditional on you buying at least a 1000 magnets if you buy less the price goes up.
I have only built one of the larger size, at the moment I am comparing it with the same size planar using ferrites. It is about twice as loud as the ferrite one. The bass is very tight no boom or resonance compared to a normal speaker. You can hear every nuance of the background sounds when you are watching a cricket match on the BBC.
Well worth the effort. Regards Anthony.
I don't use the thin ones, I use the rubble sacks about 9 hundreths of a millimeter. Although you could try the thinner ones as they don't cost much to make !!
You can get the foil from CPC it is used as a anti burgular device on windows. The Impedance on the 4' x 2' is just under 4 Ohms, and it is about 2.4 on the 21" x 24". This of course depends on the size of magnets and the No. used. The 4' x 2' uses about 1100 neos for a pair. cost about £600. The magnets for the 21" x 24" (500) cost about £290. This price is conditional on you buying at least a 1000 magnets if you buy less the price goes up.
I have only built one of the larger size, at the moment I am comparing it with the same size planar using ferrites. It is about twice as loud as the ferrite one. The bass is very tight no boom or resonance compared to a normal speaker. You can hear every nuance of the background sounds when you are watching a cricket match on the BBC.
Well worth the effort. Regards Anthony.
Time to bring the thread back to life. I have 52 large rectangular ceramic magnets (6"X2"X1") that I bought over 18 years ago. I use to be into high end audio but when I bought these and the plan was to build a large ribbon speaker. Now that I am retired and back into audio-video, I'm thinking of finally doing just that. My plan is to build a linear version on the magnetic motor used in conventional speaker design - two front pole pieces seperated by a 1/2 inch gap for the ribbonon the stacked parallel magnets , and a back pole piece completing the magnetic circuit. Any thoughts on this?
Member
Joined 2003
I recommend downloading FEMM and using it to simulate various motor designs. It's a great (free!) tool and can be a real eye-opener in showing how to get the best performance out of your magnets.
Jamesbos here, my next full range project will be a 7' x 2' x 3" planar full range speaker . No crossovers no transformers ! Just 1820 neo magnets 50 x 12.7 x 3mm 2 old doors from a wardrobe perforated steel sheets plastic sheeting and aluminium foil about 9 meters give or take . Some loudspeaker grill cloth and a lot of backbreaking work sticking the aluminium foil on the plastic sheeting without tearing it, if you do you have to start again!!
I have ordered the magnets 2400 all together as I am building the other 4' x 2' to finish the pair.
If you want to buy a pair of the 7' x 2 x 3", From a greek firm it will cost you $24,000. So it is cheaper to build your own. Can't wait to get started , they will sound wonderful like all the other ones I have built. These will be very sensitive on par with normal cone speakers. The openess of full range planar speakers is unbelievable they is nothing like them anywhere. No boom just pure bass tight as a drum and pure breathing treble. I'll let you know how I get on. Regards Henry.
I have ordered the magnets 2400 all together as I am building the other 4' x 2' to finish the pair.
If you want to buy a pair of the 7' x 2 x 3", From a greek firm it will cost you $24,000. So it is cheaper to build your own. Can't wait to get started , they will sound wonderful like all the other ones I have built. These will be very sensitive on par with normal cone speakers. The openess of full range planar speakers is unbelievable they is nothing like them anywhere. No boom just pure bass tight as a drum and pure breathing treble. I'll let you know how I get on. Regards Henry.
Considering the ribbon speakers sensitivity, it seems that the key factor is in implementing neo magnets. As I recall, Greek company uses them as well as Apogee Acoustics from Australia.
http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/synergy1_5_specs.html
Manufacturers claim efficiency of 95 dB/w what is realy sensational for ribbons. Btw, mine old Apogee Centaur Minors are factory rated at 84 dB but imo, the correct is about 82 dB. Friend of mine, owner of Apogee Stage, said that his Stages are even 79dB sensitive. He drive them properly with Krell KSA 100 ( 2 x 100 Watt A class), but costs of amplification end electricity are too much in my opinion.
So, the best way is to go with neodium magnets.
http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/synergy1_5_specs.html
Manufacturers claim efficiency of 95 dB/w what is realy sensational for ribbons. Btw, mine old Apogee Centaur Minors are factory rated at 84 dB but imo, the correct is about 82 dB. Friend of mine, owner of Apogee Stage, said that his Stages are even 79dB sensitive. He drive them properly with Krell KSA 100 ( 2 x 100 Watt A class), but costs of amplification end electricity are too much in my opinion.
So, the best way is to go with neodium magnets.
The speakers you mentioned are not proper full range planars as they use crossovers, which wastes power which reduces the sensitivity compared to a full range planar. Not using a crossover not only saves power but also makes them sound more open.
I have built normal speakers ie:- IB,Underfloorloaded,Transmission Line. I also have several bought speakers ie:- KEF,SONY, B&K, Wharfdale, Beocrd, Bose etc, and I can safely say that none of these beat my DIY full range planars using either ferrite or neo magnets. Using the neos now make a big difference to the sensitivity as would be expected. Also the full range planar is very simple to build no fancy crossovers or transformers just a plain and simple membrane. No heavy engineering or electronics. A simple and beautifully sounding concept. Well worth the small effort involved. Simplicity is the key to all HI-FI whether it is building valve amps or speakers .
I have built normal speakers ie:- IB,Underfloorloaded,Transmission Line. I also have several bought speakers ie:- KEF,SONY, B&K, Wharfdale, Beocrd, Bose etc, and I can safely say that none of these beat my DIY full range planars using either ferrite or neo magnets. Using the neos now make a big difference to the sensitivity as would be expected. Also the full range planar is very simple to build no fancy crossovers or transformers just a plain and simple membrane. No heavy engineering or electronics. A simple and beautifully sounding concept. Well worth the small effort involved. Simplicity is the key to all HI-FI whether it is building valve amps or speakers .
Are your planars single ended or P-P?
Hello,
This is a very interesting thread, and I hope that you don't mind me jumping in like this...
Are your speakers single ended like the Magneplanars? Are they very directional at high frequencies? Do you have any measurements of things like frequency response, directivity and distortion?
Thanks,
David
Hello,
This is a very interesting thread, and I hope that you don't mind me jumping in like this...
Are your speakers single ended like the Magneplanars? Are they very directional at high frequencies? Do you have any measurements of things like frequency response, directivity and distortion?
Thanks,
David
David, what do you mean SE or P-P, I alway understood this was in relation to valve amplifiers! So I am afraid you have lost me!?
I have no technical knowledge or equipment so all my measurments are by ear. I think this is the only way to do any measuring between different designs. You build them and compare. My full range planars are not directional to my ears, they just sound so open and the bass is very tight no boom rattle or fizz just a beautiful sound. They sound so clear and open when compared with normal cone speakers, in fact since I became interested in full range planars ,I have no interest in any other type of speaker. They are so easy to build, even for a 69 year old man!! To build my design you don't need any mechanical or electronic skills measuring equipment etc. In fact you could knock up a pair in less than a week. Regards Henry.
I have no technical knowledge or equipment so all my measurments are by ear. I think this is the only way to do any measuring between different designs. You build them and compare. My full range planars are not directional to my ears, they just sound so open and the bass is very tight no boom rattle or fizz just a beautiful sound. They sound so clear and open when compared with normal cone speakers, in fact since I became interested in full range planars ,I have no interest in any other type of speaker. They are so easy to build, even for a 69 year old man!! To build my design you don't need any mechanical or electronic skills measuring equipment etc. In fact you could knock up a pair in less than a week. Regards Henry.