Yeah, nanook, that does get my hackles up as well. Like you said I'm sure it can be done well, but it's hard to have the same confidence in a multi linkage design, as a simpler arm.
Is everyone pretty confident that the anti skating force can we well handled? This will still be an issue with a pivoted head design.
BTW, I'm not asking that question skeptically, but honestly. I really haven't thought about it much yet...
Is everyone pretty confident that the anti skating force can we well handled? This will still be an issue with a pivoted head design.
BTW, I'm not asking that question skeptically, but honestly. I really haven't thought about it much yet...
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Another attempt by inventor Herbert P. Raabe from 1976. This one is motorized.
US Patent number: 4111433
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Another attempt by inventor Herbert P. Raabe from 1976. This one is motorized.
US Patent number: 4111433
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I am afraid multilink might be very difficult to implement and I am not sure about it´s reliability.
I listened to the Thales very critically and found it to be a decent performer but some kuzma pivoted arms sound much more confident and powerfull.... This is MHO based on listening tests within different systems... might not be considered as conclusive.
Anyway, the best reproductions I heard where using parallel tracking arms, so I believe in the concept.
Can you tell us which Thales model you listened to, the Original, AV, or the Simplicity? And which Kuzma model did you compare it to, the 4point?
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wacky designs
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Just for kicks, some wacky turntables and tonearms from Teragaki Takeshi san of Japan.
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Just for kicks, some wacky turntables and tonearms from Teragaki Takeshi san of Japan.
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I compared the 4 point to both Thales tonearms.
As I said, systems where very different so my impressions might be biased but I found the 4 point to be in another class.
As I said, systems where very different so my impressions might be biased but I found the 4 point to be in another class.
I'm trying to understand the design choice of having the counterweight pivoted against the arm. As far as I can tell its major influence would be to increase the apparent inertia of the counterweight/arm system. Which tonearm designers seek to minimize...
It is a beautiful mechanism though. But I hope that isn't the only reason it was designed.
It is a beautiful mechanism though. But I hope that isn't the only reason it was designed.
The only reason it was designed? How many reasons are there? Which ones matter? What the helk??
phivates, that was indeed my question. In not so many words though.
Do you see what I'm saying about it seeming to be an unnecessary complication?
Do you see what I'm saying about it seeming to be an unnecessary complication?
Wow.... Not sure if all of those complexities make sense. However, the more evil and mysterious both arm and TT looks, the easier it would be for a customer to get rid of his money. Anyway, it is an interesting piece of information here.
Let's not get too cynical. The Japanese have a long tradition of experimenting with far out designs, especially some flagship products from those corporate giants. The Japanese get to see these far out stuff and the west have to put up with boring Scottish stuff.
Mr. Teragaki is an inventor and holds many patents in Japan and some of the designs are probably for research and development purpose, few of the linear arms look like record cutters and lathe. It's refreshing to see some stuff made with such experimental spirit. He's 87 right now so I don't think money is an issue for him. Old age probably tamed some of that inventive fire and the designs are more simplified as seen in the more current productions. I know I will never be able to afford any of his stuff but who cares. They are fun to look at!
None of the pictured products really belongs to the genre of pivot tangential designs. It was just for fun.... just like this thread or the "toned arm" below, which can be utterly useless for some people but the intent is purely for entertainment.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Thanks again for this thread. I'll be submitting my two bits worth when my tubes come in. Also thanks to Dtut for his contributions to the opus 3 thread, without which I would not consider posting my garage piece, shure cart and all.
You're welcome! I thank you and others for paying attention to this thread. If I have inspired anyone pursuing a project then I feel my time here is well worth it. Even if you don't build anything, it's still fun to think about these things. I know I had fun. 🙂 I look forward to seeing pictures of your project!
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Schroder LT
Looks like Frank Schroder designed a tonearm using some ideas from this thread or an old patent with similar idea. The name of the Model is called "LT", assuming it means Linear Tracking or Linear Tracker.
Notice the base is pivoted and there's no offset on the headshell. I think this is a more elegant design than the Thales tonearm - not having moving parts close the delicate cartridge and headshell helps to control vibration. The idea is that the combination of the armwand plus the swinging cantilevered base creates an extensible arm that is one side of the triangle inside the Thales semi-circle. I just need to see more pictures showing how the pivot guided in the Thales circle geometry.
Frank, any pictures of the guiding mechanism?
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Looks like Frank Schroder designed a tonearm using some ideas from this thread or an old patent with similar idea. The name of the Model is called "LT", assuming it means Linear Tracking or Linear Tracker.
Notice the base is pivoted and there's no offset on the headshell. I think this is a more elegant design than the Thales tonearm - not having moving parts close the delicate cartridge and headshell helps to control vibration. The idea is that the combination of the armwand plus the swinging cantilevered base creates an extensible arm that is one side of the triangle inside the Thales semi-circle. I just need to see more pictures showing how the pivot guided in the Thales circle geometry.
Frank, any pictures of the guiding mechanism?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Conceptually similar to the Schroder LT:
"Traversing mechanism for pick-up transducer arm for disc records" by R.W. Birch - US Patent # 3476394
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"Traversing mechanism for pick-up transducer arm for disc records" by R.W. Birch - US Patent # 3476394
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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More similar patents:
Patent References
US 2192464 A Acoustic device Mar-1940
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Patent References
US 2192464 A Acoustic device Mar-1940
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US 2585396 A Gramophone tone arm moving device Feb-1952
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Patent US 3059934 "A Pick-up arm" Oct-1962
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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More pictures of the new Frank Schroder LT tonearm from another forum, including his explanation of the design and clearing any misunderstanding of this patent pending design:
This new commercial arm is the first attempt and a true alternative to the Thales tonearm approach in this genre in the current market today. Bravo!
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This new commercial arm is the first attempt and a true alternative to the Thales tonearm approach in this genre in the current market today. Bravo!
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