If by 'serious' you mean 'better than D90' then I would agree that cost is likely to be up in the range you mention, possibly higher. Depends on what it takes to fully get the very best out of the chip.
Not the chip will be the deciding factor, but power supplies, I/V conversion, gain stage and buffering.
OK...
I am subjecting myself to being called crazy here, but I am going to suggest this anyway. I advise replacing the fuse in the D-90 with something better. It comes with a cheap as dirt glass body fuse, just replace this with a decent quality ceramic body fuse from Littlefuse, or if you have access to an "audiophile" fuse try that. You might be surprised!
I am subjecting myself to being called crazy here, but I am going to suggest this anyway. I advise replacing the fuse in the D-90 with something better. It comes with a cheap as dirt glass body fuse, just replace this with a decent quality ceramic body fuse from Littlefuse, or if you have access to an "audiophile" fuse try that. You might be surprised!
Not calling you crazy, but the issue I have with a lot of these suggestions is that there appears to be no comparative effect in other aspects of electronics.
off topic
this is off topic here and I will not respond here.
As to price of a made in America, well optomized DAC with the AKM 4499 chip, note the cost of this chip alone is very, very high. Much more than AKM 4497, and more than ESS 9038 as well.
Additionally, it looks like the a good implementation requires many more parts (and much more development time) than with a Vout chip like AKM 4497, this is similar to what it takes to do well with the ESS 9038. So for considering cost, look at the best ESS 9038 implementations you can find, and go up from there. With the higher performance this chip is capable of, the limiting factors become the implementation: power supplies and I/V stages are going to have to be very near perfect to achieve the performance the chip is capable of, this will cost some money to achieve.
this is off topic here and I will not respond here.
As to price of a made in America, well optomized DAC with the AKM 4499 chip, note the cost of this chip alone is very, very high. Much more than AKM 4497, and more than ESS 9038 as well.
Additionally, it looks like the a good implementation requires many more parts (and much more development time) than with a Vout chip like AKM 4497, this is similar to what it takes to do well with the ESS 9038. So for considering cost, look at the best ESS 9038 implementations you can find, and go up from there. With the higher performance this chip is capable of, the limiting factors become the implementation: power supplies and I/V stages are going to have to be very near perfect to achieve the performance the chip is capable of, this will cost some money to achieve.
I understood the question to be about commercial units possibly to be produced in the US. Given that ES9028PRO based Benchmark DAC-3 (with LM4E9600 HPA) retails for around $2,200, wouldn't surprise me if a good AK4499 dac might come in a little higher than that.
You are. In some sense. It's all in your mind - nothing wrong with that. Others be warned to waste money. Or? If you felt better, it is better! ;-)
Current pricing from Digikey for the AKM 4499 is $70.20 USD when ordering 100 pcs. This fairly close to ESS 9038 pricing, and the implementation difficulties to achieve best sound quality are likely very similar, so I would expect pricing for a "best" version of an AKM 4499 DAC to be fairy close to that of a "best" ESS 9038 DAC.
Wouldn't expect more than maybe a very slight difference with a device like this, but one could try it I suppose. Sometimes people find a difference swapping fuses, but more often its with higher current devices like big power amps. If one does find a difference then probably a good idea to swap the fuses back and forth a few times to check for consistency, maybe what changed most was from wiping fuse holder contacts, or maybe results will not be reproducible with repeated trying.
Mark.. Thanks for the report. Also I am curious how the D90 performs, sonically.
One question.. Next time could You try it in DSD, direct mode.. With HQP. And tell which filters / modulators.
I would expect even greater difference..
And maybe You could see it smoothing out a bit.
While maintaining attac, openness and energy.
Ciao, G
One question.. Next time could You try it in DSD, direct mode.. With HQP. And tell which filters / modulators.
I would expect even greater difference..
And maybe You could see it smoothing out a bit.
While maintaining attac, openness and energy.
Ciao, G
But the ESS9038 is complete, no need for a DIR and is about 2/3 the price. I'd expect an all out AK4499 to be a lot more.
True. One should be able to do it for parts cost plus one's free labor
Consider that a USB board with native DSD support (ASIO drivers) is close to $100 in parts cost, and a multilayer PCB would be another cost. The dac chip is $83 (in quantities of less than 10). Want a nice display, a wireless remote, BlueTooth support?
Somebody good at it would need to design a PCB, and somebody would have to code an MCU for control, maybe for UI too.
Hmmm.... maybe $700 isn't so bad after all
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Point being...
That this made difference in the midrange in the D-90 for me. I will not suggest anyone spend crazy money on audiophile fuses (that is a discussion for another place and time), but the OE fuses used by Topping are ultra cheap, glass housing style Chinese parts. Given the small size of the power supply components of this DAC, it would not surprise me if it is more sensitive to line noise than the average DIY build, or "audiophile" DAC with more extensive power supply isolation and filtering. Just try a higher quality, Littlefuse ceramic body for testing.
I am aware of the wiping action/cleaning the contacts effect, but considering this DAC is brand new, i doubt that is a factor here.
That this made difference in the midrange in the D-90 for me. I will not suggest anyone spend crazy money on audiophile fuses (that is a discussion for another place and time), but the OE fuses used by Topping are ultra cheap, glass housing style Chinese parts. Given the small size of the power supply components of this DAC, it would not surprise me if it is more sensitive to line noise than the average DIY build, or "audiophile" DAC with more extensive power supply isolation and filtering. Just try a higher quality, Littlefuse ceramic body for testing.
I am aware of the wiping action/cleaning the contacts effect, but considering this DAC is brand new, i doubt that is a factor here.
Good point...
On the DIR, I had not considered that-mostly because I only consider USB or Ethernet input formats myself. Here in the US I was seeing prices of $75.00 for ESS 9038, but that is the single unit price, where AKM 4499 goes for $83.00 in single units.
On the DIR, I had not considered that-mostly because I only consider USB or Ethernet input formats myself. Here in the US I was seeing prices of $75.00 for ESS 9038, but that is the single unit price, where AKM 4499 goes for $83.00 in single units.
Yeah...
This is why I picked up a D-90 to evaluate, it seemed like doing a DIY AKM 4499 would end up costing as much as the D-90, plus a few hundred hours of my time!
I have been playing it in direct DSD mode, with ROON going to DSD 256, linear phase fast roll off filter, 7th order CLANS modulator. I am controlling volume with ROON's volume headroom, awkward, but works. I am sure HQPlayer with the new EC modulators would be even better, but this sounding very, very good here.
True. One should be able to do it for parts cost plus one's free labor
Consider that a USB board with native DSD support (ASIO drivers) is close to $100 in parts cost, and a multilayer PCB would be another cost. The dac chip is $83 (in quantities of less than 10). Want a nice display, a wireless remote, BlueTooth support?
Somebody good at it would need to design a PCB, and somebody would have to code an MCU for control, maybe for UI too.
Hmmm.... maybe $700 isn't so bad after all
This is why I picked up a D-90 to evaluate, it seemed like doing a DIY AKM 4499 would end up costing as much as the D-90, plus a few hundred hours of my time!
I have been playing it in direct DSD mode, with ROON going to DSD 256, linear phase fast roll off filter, 7th order CLANS modulator. I am controlling volume with ROON's volume headroom, awkward, but works. I am sure HQPlayer with the new EC modulators would be even better, but this sounding very, very good here.
Okay, I'll make a note to check it out. Want to take a look at the power supply anyway.