Reads better with Google translate: audiogurman 🙂
They also have measurements of mids and woofers.
Nice find Matt!
They also have measurements of mids and woofers.
Nice find Matt!
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Indeed they sound really good. I had Morel supreme which is also 110mm. So when some kid poked in the domes on a set of Seas Magnum and the guy having the tweeters gave up on repairing them - I got them for free 😀 It's not pretty, and there are some small artifacts on the measurement between the two seas tweeters, because og the "inverted" dome treatment. But after I carefully straightened them out, by disassembly them and push back out the dome and put everything back together, they sound fine. Very good tweeter - but some dont like the breakup above 20Khz - I just notch/EQ it out. If it is gonna be a keeper, I will find some replacement domes - should be possible somewhere.
Folks, worked on some measurements last night. Unfortunately had to dump all of them due to a silly error i had made. Will be back at it tonight, please stay tuned.
Btw, in addition to all the flaws in the speaker, the 14" x 12" x 18"(H) room is absolutely butchering the sound. The room is simply eating up a lot of the bass and making the highs sound more emphatic.
Confirmed this by playing my Wharfedale diamond 10.2 in this room with rest of the system being the same. The WFDs are a nice pair of bookshelves for their price. They play very nicely in a smaller room. But in the high ceiling room they show similar bass issues. Even so, they simply blew the subject speaker of this thread out of the water.
This is WFD in the smaller room, nice marantz amp and ifi nano DAC
Btw, in addition to all the flaws in the speaker, the 14" x 12" x 18"(H) room is absolutely butchering the sound. The room is simply eating up a lot of the bass and making the highs sound more emphatic.
Confirmed this by playing my Wharfedale diamond 10.2 in this room with rest of the system being the same. The WFDs are a nice pair of bookshelves for their price. They play very nicely in a smaller room. But in the high ceiling room they show similar bass issues. Even so, they simply blew the subject speaker of this thread out of the water.
This is WFD in the smaller room, nice marantz amp and ifi nano DAC
Attachments
Posting some enclosure volumes
Sealed 12" subwoofer enclosure
13"x18"x11" = 1.49 cuft
Sealed 2x8" woofer enclosure
24"x18"x11" = 2.75 cuft
Sealed 5" midwoofer enclosure
6"x18"x11" = 0.6875 cuft
Sealed 12" subwoofer enclosure
13"x18"x11" = 1.49 cuft
Sealed 2x8" woofer enclosure
24"x18"x11" = 2.75 cuft
Sealed 5" midwoofer enclosure
6"x18"x11" = 0.6875 cuft
Hi Matt, Andy, others,
Posting first in room measurement on the left speaker.
Not experienced in this, so not entirely sure if the measurements have come out useful. Also i can see basic trends, but cant read and infer all details.
Please comment and explain observations
thanks
Joji
Posting first in room measurement on the left speaker.
Not experienced in this, so not entirely sure if the measurements have come out useful. Also i can see basic trends, but cant read and infer all details.
Please comment and explain observations
thanks
Joji
Do we know what the subwoofer is?
Assuming this is the internal volume it is probably a bit on the large side for a sealed enclosure so that sets to rest any worries about volume being pinched by an overly large subwoofer enclosure. How much stuffing is present?
This looks more than large enough. How much stuffing is present?
Its a peerless 12" subwoofer
All the enclosures are fully stuffed, also the walls have foam lining
Interesting stuff. It seems to confirm what people have been deducing about the crossover. Where was the microphone placed for the all drivers plot.
What does the response of the subwoofer with no low pass filter look like? Not that it is a wise thing to do but I am wondering how well it might match the in room response.
What does the response of the subwoofer with the low pass look like? How well does it match the roll off of the woofers.
What does the near field midrange plot look like.
The mid/tweeter crossover frequency is too high for the midrange and the notch on the breakup probably should be stronger. The mid/tweeter crossover is probably too low for the ribbon but that would show up in the distortion plots at more elevated SPL as was shown earlier.
What does the speaker sound like with a full baffle step added with an equalizer? To get an idea of what the baffle step looks like for your speaker baffle and driver layout try this program or equivalent.
Without knowing which Peerless driver one cannot look up the parameters and determine appropriate enclosure volumes and degrees of stuffing.
The stuffing density affects performance. The volumes are large and stuffing seems to be present to some extent. Although it may not be optimal it does not look to be high on the list of concerns.
This is the Peerless model 830844 XXLS 12″ Subwoofer
http://www.datasheets.pl/SPEAKERS/PEERLESS/830844.pdf
All far field measurements were taken at 1 m, on-axis and aligned to the center of the midrange.
Near field was taken at about 1 cm from the phase plug of the corresponding driver
I havent made measurements on the sub. It was turned off for the other measurements. I can adjust level, XO freq and phase of a the two subwoofers connected in series to the Dayton subwooofer amp. The amp also offers one adjustable EQ setting.
I was curious about the subwoofer because of the woofer response and wondered how it might fill in but it is a minor issue. Partly prompted by looking at your in room response and wondering how the the original owner had set things up.
What are your thoughts currently on what you might want to do about bringing the woofer response back in line?
Andy i dont fully understand the cause of the woofer issue. Please do explain what you observed from the measurements. The original owner had a decent listening room and the bass issue wasnt as noticeable even though i felt the mid/high were a bit forward even during the audition.
I somehow feel that part of the bass issue is the unfavorable proportions of my current room dimensions.
I am goign to try out the BSC simulation you recommended and try out if any PC based software EQ helps out.
Other than that, are there simple XO mods available to help this issue?
What in your opinion are the options for the bass issues.
Also i am fairly convinced that mid/high XO rework should now be undertaken as guided by Matt
We dont see this large roll off in the plots provided by the designer, where the response seems to be fairly flat down to 200Hz
If you plot the baffle step correction for your speaker it is probably going to be quite close to what seems to be missing in your in room response. The speakers are out into the room and so you will need most of it. It looks like the crossover might have little or no baffle step correction as we speculated earlier. Drawing the circuit will help firm up the designers intention and, perhaps, reveal possible incorrect values. So we are not quite there yet but not far off.
One solution is to use an equalizer and live with it. A better solution would be a passive crossover along the lines indicated by 5th element earlier with the woofers in parallel and a new woofer/midrange crossover. However the circuit shown earlier did not include the difference in phase between the woofer and midrange on your baffle which will needs accommodating and will make things messier and so there is still work to do on this solution. An even better solution would be to use active DSP which will make things easy and avoid most of the compromises.
I am not sure the mid/high crossover can be successfully reworked without changing the tweeter or is this what you meant?
How were the measurements taken?
Measuring bass in rooms is a problem. If you look at the measured frequency responses shown in, say, Stereophile it is a gated response at 1m (or so) on the speaker axis above about 500 Hz (I haven't looked up the exact frequency) and below it is a measurement taken very close to the woofer/s and port/s, summed and joined onto the high frequency measurement.
Now a flat near field bass response might look nice but it will wrong at the listening position. You need to see a rise due baffle step correction like that shown in the measurements of that Sony speaker I linked to earlier.
I can try software EQ for experimentation but wouldn't prefer it as the final solution.
Sounds like a rebuild of the mid/low crossover will also be needed if going passive. grumble grumble..
I know DSP is the right way, but my gripe is that i just cant seem to find what i need, until this comes along
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-integrated-preamp-crossover-dac-project.html
I need USB and COAX as digital inputs, DSP XO and multichannel digital out to external high quality DAC followed by multichannel power amp. Even the ones in the Yamaha AV Derek pointed out are good.
Yes i meant that we should go ahead and replace the tweeter with a more suitable one.
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