All I can say is that the lack of higher frequencies bouncing off the side walls as first reflections and that are coherent, wideband or not - thus smearing the soundfield, messing up phase and FR, pleases me more than having strong first reflections. I do not perceive a lack of high freqs at the listening place because of the direct field on axis which contain all freqs. So it is partly anechoic, partly uncorrelated reverberant. I have difficulties to explain (semantics, english not my native language, lack of sciencespeak) but I may record some binaural to have a listen to.
Every time I heard all those beaming horns at shows, I said to myself exactly that - and how unnatural that sound was.
Don't you sit like 1 m in front of them, using them basically as headphones? 🙂
100%.... and lovin it... more like 54inches but, yeah. Headphones with no need for cross talk simulator or Tactile Transducer. Proof the "head in vice theory" isn't real. I also have a pair of 1"+4" monitors that I listen to regularly at 1m....so no need to think, I have no comparisons
A recording is unnatural by definition, but if well done it can generate a sense of being natural to a degree. Furthermore, one can never know how a recording sounded live unless you were there. If you want real natural sound, you should attend a live performance 🙂
So strong direct sound must give you a great Clarity then. Little to no sense of spaciousness or envelopment but perhaps that's not what you would enjoy.
I understand you now, not many people sit just in front of their big horns 🙂
I listen 3m in front of the speakers btw. Just the common stereo triangle. The headphone-like intimacy is there but without the sound in your head effect and with a proper soundstage due to the pointsource effect.
No, it's not. It's a photo. Like a movie - a lot of successive photos.
I don't think so. I haven't listened to a stereo pair in an anechoic chamber, but outside or in a very large space away from boundaries two speakers still project a coherent soundstage.
So, to clarify, compare these two variants? Flat on-axis, rising DI vs sloping down ON, near-constant DI?
Interesting experiment indeed.
That's a different situation to when there is a (small) room and the reflections are spectrally corrupt.
Yes, that's correct. That particular power response slope if what is found to give the most rewarding sound in that scenario.
Its not so different to increasing DI which inherently lowers the reflective sound energy to the listener
Matter of Fact the sound stage will be more coherent. A room and speaker positioning has its own sound stage different and separate from the recorded soundstage
Anechoic Chamber -
- Very focused and precise imaging - with no reflected sounds to smear the location of sources. Pinpoint accuracy.
No reflected sounds to smear the sound stage finely designed into the mix.
I was hoping so. I am going for the analytical approach
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@mabat Well thank you for discussing this with me (us)... I didn't think I was going to convert you to beaming horns or anything like that. Just wanted to point out what High DI means to me. Constant Directivity is obviously apart of the recipe for the Ultimate speaker as well. You are "The Man", Ty for contributing so much to the community.
Hi, I found out with my speaker setup the clarity is function of direct/reflected sound. In my room and with my diy speakers with cardioid mid and st260 waveguide max distance for clarity and envelopment is about 2.2m. If I listen any further, the sound is not 3D anymore but in front of me, and phantom center gets little blurry in comparison.
What is interesting it seems to be on/off kind of thing: Listening any closer the sound stays fine, any further sound stays "blurry". There doesn't seem to be sliding quality to this, either there is good sound clarity with all stereo buzz word qualities, or just room sound.
I think it correlates quite nicely Griesingers work which basically explains it while close enough brain can separate direct sound from background and all desirable stereo effects seem to happen, sound is engaging, space comes from the recording and so on. When too far, there is just one sound, the room sound which seems to come from speakers.
I urge everyone to find this transition in their place, with their setup, after all it seems to be quite easy to hear. Now that one hears it, its easy to recognize in any setup, live sound situation and so on. And when you are close enough, it is now possible to listen possible room sound separately and I don't think it matters too much as what we listen to is the direct field, the recording. I haven't experimented with this too much yet, but plan to test separate ambient channels how they affect perceived sound if I could improve it further.
I suspect many people listen outside this, too far, in which case off-axis response and all that matters more. It might be so that some people prefer the "far" sound just because they ever heard the "close sound". It is not close sound literally, it is far superior sound, its just that one has to have small enough stereo listening triangle to get high enough direct sound SPL so that the brain can do its thing.
I think beaming would also relate to this; When listening too far/outside sweetspot then the room sound is dark. When close enough and in sweet spot it doesn't matter too much. With low DI system it is aso possible to listen close enough, but also the too far or outside sweetspot sounds more balanced. I think mabat probably listens far/all around the room and prefers non beaming, while horneydude/others like to be at sweetspot and don't mind sound elsewhere in the room and its fine for them.
By the way the transition seems to happen about at same distance in my room with small bookshelf speakers that I have. klein hummel o110 if I remember model number correctly. I don't know what DI would extend the listening distance.
Overall I think this is not very well known stuff. People (me included) lean forward for critical listening for example, perhaps to reach the close sound but not thinking about it more. Why not extend the close sound all the way to comfortable seat so one doesn't have to lean forward? 🙂 Or, discussing about various stereo effects without providing context if close or far. This alone tells me people just don't recognize it, to me its crucial info now.
All right, perhaps most of you already know about this? 🙂 Would love to hear comments about it.
What is interesting it seems to be on/off kind of thing: Listening any closer the sound stays fine, any further sound stays "blurry". There doesn't seem to be sliding quality to this, either there is good sound clarity with all stereo buzz word qualities, or just room sound.
I think it correlates quite nicely Griesingers work which basically explains it while close enough brain can separate direct sound from background and all desirable stereo effects seem to happen, sound is engaging, space comes from the recording and so on. When too far, there is just one sound, the room sound which seems to come from speakers.
I urge everyone to find this transition in their place, with their setup, after all it seems to be quite easy to hear. Now that one hears it, its easy to recognize in any setup, live sound situation and so on. And when you are close enough, it is now possible to listen possible room sound separately and I don't think it matters too much as what we listen to is the direct field, the recording. I haven't experimented with this too much yet, but plan to test separate ambient channels how they affect perceived sound if I could improve it further.
I suspect many people listen outside this, too far, in which case off-axis response and all that matters more. It might be so that some people prefer the "far" sound just because they ever heard the "close sound". It is not close sound literally, it is far superior sound, its just that one has to have small enough stereo listening triangle to get high enough direct sound SPL so that the brain can do its thing.
I think beaming would also relate to this; When listening too far/outside sweetspot then the room sound is dark. When close enough and in sweet spot it doesn't matter too much. With low DI system it is aso possible to listen close enough, but also the too far or outside sweetspot sounds more balanced. I think mabat probably listens far/all around the room and prefers non beaming, while horneydude/others like to be at sweetspot and don't mind sound elsewhere in the room and its fine for them.
By the way the transition seems to happen about at same distance in my room with small bookshelf speakers that I have. klein hummel o110 if I remember model number correctly. I don't know what DI would extend the listening distance.
Overall I think this is not very well known stuff. People (me included) lean forward for critical listening for example, perhaps to reach the close sound but not thinking about it more. Why not extend the close sound all the way to comfortable seat so one doesn't have to lean forward? 🙂 Or, discussing about various stereo effects without providing context if close or far. This alone tells me people just don't recognize it, to me its crucial info now.
All right, perhaps most of you already know about this? 🙂 Would love to hear comments about it.
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I listen to anything almost. Jazz, Classical, Rap, Rock, Country, RnB, DubStep, EDM, Folk, Gospel, Christian Contemporary... Learned about Phonk this winter from my son....basically a corner of EDM. Reminds me of Crystal Castles.... Love some Bjork. I don't listen to much Classical lately, or enough to know my favorites but I spent 7 years in concert band, wind symphony, marching band, etc as a youth, along with professional drum lessons for as long. Played in Rock Bands, Jazz bands, Sung in choirs/groups, produce/write music.... I went to a Rock Concert once, Meshuggah lol, their drummer is the sheet. Have heard plenty of PA systems due to church, clubs, etc... Go to the Imax, or Atmos theater almost every weekend if there's a movie worth seeing. Listened to many Headphones, and continue to keep a pair of HD600's. Started using studio monitors strictly, years ago. Spent years designing mixes masters and sounds.... Before that I once had a system I designed using 1"+4"+12"+15".... I was young. I spent a good year studying via ear, daily, swing jazz. If it were possible to count the hours I have listening to music, I probably have a ridiculous amount. I'm listening to music right now....
I say all that to show what my ears have been through. Probably has an effect on my expectations of listening.
I say all that to show what my ears have been through. Probably has an effect on my expectations of listening.
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