Yes, the 3FE22 4ohm was not a part of the listening test as explained in post 1. The photo just happened to have both 3FE22's in there.
Reference Test Tracks
Here are the 320kbit mp3's of the test track source material so you can judge what the speaker/driver combination as recorded sounds like relative to the source. After downloading, change the filename extension from .asc to .mp3 in order to play. (filename extension change to get around the 976kB max file size limit)
Here are the 320kbit mp3's of the test track source material so you can judge what the speaker/driver combination as recorded sounds like relative to the source. After downloading, change the filename extension from .asc to .mp3 in order to play. (filename extension change to get around the 976kB max file size limit)
Sounds pretty different in stereo vs mono by the way.
Upon comparing I'm still somewhat satisfied by my choice. There is a new deficiency that wasn't so apparent previously that has become obvious. On a comparison basis one of the worst ranking drivers are actually showing a lot more merit to me than they did prior.
Upon comparing I'm still somewhat satisfied by my choice. There is a new deficiency that wasn't so apparent previously that has become obvious. On a comparison basis one of the worst ranking drivers are actually showing a lot more merit to me than they did prior.
Great fun!
Thanks to xrk971 for putting all the work in.
A few comments having read through the thread:
1. I'm shocked how many people object to this! Did you listen to the files before objecting? Nevermind all the details of MP3 this, or foam core baffle that, or MIC HD something else... the character of each driver comes though loud and clear if you listen. If you can't hear that you're missing the point! What's that saying again... "Can't see the forest for the trees".
2. Some people mentioned that the drivers sounded great on one track, but terrible on others, and that definitely wasn't true for me. The character of each driver came though clearly regardless of the track. Some tracks helped mask some flaws, and other tracks accentuated them, but the good drivers always sounded good, and bad drivers always sounded bad.
3. The point on this test is obviously not to compare the recordings here to audiophile source material. Any recording of a loudspeaker in a room isn't going to sound as good as the original. This goes without saying. The point is to listen to the obvious differences between the 7 drivers given that each are being run under the exact same conditions. I can promise you the effects of the drivers in this case are far stronger than the effects of the 192kbps MP3 encoding.
4. An objectivist tends to approach a challenge objectively, and a subjectivist will tend to approach the same test subjectively. This is an objective take on a subjective test, which is a pretty funny thing. Anyone here spending more time making excuses than taking the actual test and stating their findings is not exactly flattering themselves. I love how readily a subjectivist will hide behind a wall of objective excuses as soon as they're presented with a situation where they're not in control. There's a goldmine of psychological data in this thread!
I have included my specific opinions in the attached .TXT file if anyone wants to be influenced 🙂
Very curious to find out what's what on Sunday!
Regards,
Owen
Thanks to xrk971 for putting all the work in.
A few comments having read through the thread:
1. I'm shocked how many people object to this! Did you listen to the files before objecting? Nevermind all the details of MP3 this, or foam core baffle that, or MIC HD something else... the character of each driver comes though loud and clear if you listen. If you can't hear that you're missing the point! What's that saying again... "Can't see the forest for the trees".
2. Some people mentioned that the drivers sounded great on one track, but terrible on others, and that definitely wasn't true for me. The character of each driver came though clearly regardless of the track. Some tracks helped mask some flaws, and other tracks accentuated them, but the good drivers always sounded good, and bad drivers always sounded bad.
3. The point on this test is obviously not to compare the recordings here to audiophile source material. Any recording of a loudspeaker in a room isn't going to sound as good as the original. This goes without saying. The point is to listen to the obvious differences between the 7 drivers given that each are being run under the exact same conditions. I can promise you the effects of the drivers in this case are far stronger than the effects of the 192kbps MP3 encoding.
4. An objectivist tends to approach a challenge objectively, and a subjectivist will tend to approach the same test subjectively. This is an objective take on a subjective test, which is a pretty funny thing. Anyone here spending more time making excuses than taking the actual test and stating their findings is not exactly flattering themselves. I love how readily a subjectivist will hide behind a wall of objective excuses as soon as they're presented with a situation where they're not in control. There's a goldmine of psychological data in this thread!
I have included my specific opinions in the attached .TXT file if anyone wants to be influenced 🙂
Very curious to find out what's what on Sunday!
Regards,
Owen
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I'm guessing xrk will also have IR's for these setups.
Now that we've listened to his set up it would be interesting to see how it measures after the reveal
Now that we've listened to his set up it would be interesting to see how it measures after the reveal
It is basically the same setup as I used in the FAST part of the "Objective Comparisons" thread (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/270094-objective-comparison-3in-4in-class-full-range-drivers.html) I refined the bass unit a bit but it will look something like this (PS95-8 data here).
IR:
HD:
how does one of these sound vs the XKi with Beta8cx and PRV280ti? - a subjective description would be ok as know its a crazy hassle to setup stuff. I think the XKi8cx is still in the project lineup for my toys - any hint on vent to pass to the builder would be appreciated.
X was so kind to send me his data. Thanks X!
Here's the frequency response of all drivers at 0 degree. 1m mic distance, 3.8ms window.
Up to about 3kHz the response of all drivers is more or less the same except for two drivers. Above 6kHz curves start to look very different. Can we hear what the graphs show? Just for fun assign each curve to the sound files.
X, if you don't want me to use your data publically then please let me know and I have this post removed.
Here's the frequency response of all drivers at 0 degree. 1m mic distance, 3.8ms window.
Up to about 3kHz the response of all drivers is more or less the same except for two drivers. Above 6kHz curves start to look very different. Can we hear what the graphs show? Just for fun assign each curve to the sound files.
X, if you don't want me to use your data publically then please let me know and I have this post removed.
Attachments
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It's only the HF driver as this was the data from the "Objective" thread. It's not new - just presented a little differently with shift on vertical scale and all in one color with 3.8ms gate.
I'll hang my votes as attachment as send to X by PM after I voted before the poll ends.
Added some notes, I listened to my arrays for this test.
Tried briefly on my headphones but my line arrays were more telling, probably have more DDR 😉.
Added some notes, I listened to my arrays for this test.
Tried briefly on my headphones but my line arrays were more telling, probably have more DDR 😉.
A little OT but hey, it's my thread so I will indulge this time 🙂
The XKi B8cx edition vent is as I described earlier but cut CSA and length by half. This is needed to get the vent resonance near 1kHz reduced. If you don't mind the typical dip at 1kHz that many K boxes have, stick with the usual vent. Also, if you don't need 50Hz extension, go with larger CSA and same half length to get more of an even response with higher SPL from say 80Hz on up. I still don't have Akabak conveniently at my fingertips so can't just run a quick sim on a whim anymore... 🙁
Subjectively, these full range FAST systems recorded here sound more accurate than the XKi B8cx as there is no K aperture to introduce dips-based coloration (which is less offensive than peaks-based coloration). The super wide and uniform polars of the XKi, in my opinion, are worth the dips-coloration from a PA standpoint, but not from a HiFi, or critical listening standpoint. It is true that the FAST system used here does rely on an XKi for bass duties, but only up to 225Hz so really not the same as going up to 1200Hz which is where the XO is for the PRV D280Ti starts to kick in. The D280Ti, for $40 is a fantastic sounding CD - low HD, natural sounding, no "honk" detected - quite nice to listen to. So much so that I bought a second unit for a stereo project. Not sure if it will be another XKi B8cx though.
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Just taken the test and added my vote to the pool.
Listened initially in my pc speakers (visaton frs5x) as they have a nice balanced mid-treble.
Then listened on my mains. Will probably regret not trying phones too but hey.
It came down to two. B or C. I'm happy with my vote but there wasn't alot.to my ears to choose between them. E,F and G were particularly awful.
However, I'm unsure if my vote says more about the speakers on test, or the voicing of my speakers, or my ears ��
Listened initially in my pc speakers (visaton frs5x) as they have a nice balanced mid-treble.
Then listened on my mains. Will probably regret not trying phones too but hey.
It came down to two. B or C. I'm happy with my vote but there wasn't alot.to my ears to choose between them. E,F and G were particularly awful.
However, I'm unsure if my vote says more about the speakers on test, or the voicing of my speakers, or my ears ��
i listened to the tracks on both low "fi" and higher "fi" speakers (nothing i have would be considered reference) and in all cases/combinations i could easily distinguish the differences in drivers.
so i don't understand the hoopla some are making about drawbacks / benefits / conditions of playback.
so i don't understand the hoopla some are making about drawbacks / benefits / conditions of playback.
I have to admit I voted on my impressions on a single clip, the rock clip, since its the only one id have any vague interest in listening too. Plus it was the only dry recording, despite being able to hear the room.to varying degrees on each driver sample.
Although I didn't vote for it, driver D would've been my winner, if not for what I felt was over emphasis of the presence region. Again, that could just be the rock track, but I had a go at A B comparison with the track on CD to compare....cheating I guess ( though perhaps it didn't help pick pick the flat driver 😉 )
Although I didn't vote for it, driver D would've been my winner, if not for what I felt was over emphasis of the presence region. Again, that could just be the rock track, but I had a go at A B comparison with the track on CD to compare....cheating I guess ( though perhaps it didn't help pick pick the flat driver 😉 )
This would be far more interesting waiting for the end of the race if we made bets on who the winner will be.
I don't get why people seem not want to judge through headphones.
A good set will take your room and much of the signal chain out of the equation. Plus now that the bass is taken out too, a good earphone driver will always trump all but the best speakers when it comes to neutrality and detail.
A good set will take your room and much of the signal chain out of the equation. Plus now that the bass is taken out too, a good earphone driver will always trump all but the best speakers when it comes to neutrality and detail.
I hear you, and headphones are probably a better answer than my speakers. But....
1. The only headphone I own belong to an iPhone5S. I'm betting that they are not the most uncolored of earbuds.
2. I really don't like the between the ears sound stage. I know. YMMV, IMO, etc
3. Headphones will take my room out of the equation, but it won't takd XRK's room out.
BTW, thanks XRK for the raw clips. I will revisit this exercise. I already voted, but it may well change my choice for my own benefit.
Bob
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