A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in Full Range Drivers

[5th element]

Don't forget to look at sensitivity ratings. The little SB65WBAC25 is only 83.5dB @ 2.83V, and it's 4 ohm. Power rating is 20 watts. I would find it hard to use.

Power ratings are somewhat difficult to pin down as scan speak references their power levels with high pass filters in place and pink noise?

If you were to use these SBs in a FAST configuration and high pass it at 300Hz or so it'd handle a lot more than the 20 watts if measured as per scan speak etc.

83.5dB is quite low, but if you used it FAST, above the bafflestep transition and without it being close to a rear wall, then you'd be after a woofer of 88-89dB re 2.83volts to match it sensitivity wise. It would work very well with woofers like the U18RNX/P or ER18 from SEAS, or the 8 and 10" discovery bass drivers from scan speak.

 

[wintermute]

Tony those are the SB65WBAC that I've been harping on about in this thread and posted distortion measurements for above. They are very well made and work surprisingly well even when run full range. Sure you will need to FAST them, like any of these small full rangers imo, if you are wanting to get high SPLs out of them, but apart from that they are quite lovely. I would really like to make a floor to ceiling line array out of them, but that would be rather ridiculous with our high ceilings.
http://www.parts-express.com/tymphany-ne95w-04-3-full-range-woofer--264-1058

hehe I should have searched 🙂 Not so cheap for doing line arrays either at $33 a pop!

Pano, yes they are low sensitivity, I was thinking depending on how high you crossed to them that you may be able to rate them at 85db rather than the stated 83, but they certainly won't be giant killers... Since they are so small would it be feasible to run a pair rather than a single to get more sensitivity without too much issue with lobing?

Tony.

 

[xrk971]

I have received word that members in India will be providing me a set of the Tymphany TYPY03W06O0111 3.5 inch Kevlar drivers for the next round of tests. There is going to be a good Tymphany 3.5 family showing here with TG9, 10F, TC9 also present.

 

[xrk971]

Here is the lineup so far that I have for round 2. Top two from round 1 will be TC9FD and 3FE22r16, with newcomers: TG9FD10-8, 10F/8424G00, FF105WK, and P830986. Still waiting for W4-1320 and TYPY03W06O0111.

 

[xrk971]

I almost forgot, a member in Asia will be getting me these to test:

http://m.ruten.com.tw/goods/show.php?g=21206258966085#

 

[Ray21]

It would be interesting to see how the MA CHR stacks up, as its in the relative price range of this bunch.

 

[freddi]

here's one which I think would be somewhat "veiled" but pleasant and suitable mainly for open baffle - the 6" version is ok and can be found for $10 shipped
Amazon.com : BOSS Audio BRS40 Replacement Speakers 4-inch 50-watt Coaxial Speaker : Vehicle Speakers : Car Electronics

 

[xrk971]

It would be interesting to see how the MA CHR stacks up, as its in the relative price range of this bunch.

With the 10F and B80 as competition I think we are well beyond the CHR and into A7 territory. Sadly, no A7's have been offered for testing.

 

[Bob Brines]

With the 10F and B80 as competition I think we are well beyond the CHR and into A7 territory. Sadly, no A7's have been offered for testing.

Quess why.

Bob

 

[perceval]

I almost forgot, a member in Asia will be getting me these to test:

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This link will come up better if you are on a desktop.

ÅS¤Ñ©ç½æ-¥xÆW NO.1 ©ç½æºô¯¸

 

[xrk971]

The number of drivers for round two is really starting to grow into an unmanageable size. Maybe have to split into 2 more rounds? The brain can't really do a multiple choice with more than 5 things at once. Maybe do just 4 per round and then have a final elimination round?

 

[BYRTT]

xrk971,
Regarding unmanageable size think sounds reasonable you do what needed to keep things manageable behind facade so you could have a tight grip in steering process to be error free.

Regarding 3FE22r16 is inside top 2 from round one, in meantime is there possibility to make a recording again only this driver but with digital power amp verse your Yamaha analog amp. It's because irribeo points out r16 is not good spec for digital power amp. Know it raise workload and no critic if not done but could be interesting to explore.

 

[Cornelis Spronk]

I wish to thank xrk971 for his efforts so far. You have produced one of the most active threads going.

Listening to sound clips has be far more informative than heated discussions in other threads about the graphs of various speakers. Having carefully trolled through many of these discussions has been frustrating for me. I find it impossible to evaluate the statements are made.

In my opinion, the ultimate end of the hobby is the sound. Playing sound clips, even with its recording shortcomings is instructive.
I suggest this could be the future of threads on speakers on this site.

I am a great believer in evidence based knowledge. Sound clips may well be the better evidence.

A number of comments have been made on the surprise of the sound being more different than expected from the graphs.

Reading different listeners interpretations for what they hear has been fun, and informative.

If the discussants focussed on what they like better, or less so, in comparing different speakers with well thought out support is more important that what is the “winning” speaker. There seem to be too many tastes to claim any speaker as “best”. All speakers have shortcomings. An intelligent evaluation of good and bad features of various drivers is more welcome.

I found comparing 7 speakers was impossible. I had to break the listening down to pairs to come to a convincing evaluation. Make life easy for yourself. Keep the groups a reasonable size.

I look forward to more!

 

[xrk971]

Thanks for the kind words Cornelius Spronk. It's good to get feedback like this. I will try to improve the sound quality of the clips in the next round.

 

[xrk971]

xrk971,
Regarding unmanageable size think sounds reasonable you do what needed to keep things manageable behind facade so you could have a tight grip in steering process to be error free.

Regarding 3FE22r16 is inside top 2 from round one, in meantime is there possibility to make a recording again only this driver but with digital power amp verse your Yamaha analog amp. It's because irribeo points out r16 is not good spec for digital power amp. Know it raise workload and no critic if not done but could be interesting to explore.

You are asking for a recording with Yamaha class AB amp for the 3FE22r16 right?

 

[DPH]

The number of drivers for round two is really starting to grow into an unmanageable size. Maybe have to split into 2 more rounds? The brain can't really do a multiple choice with more than 5 things at once. Maybe do just 4 per round and then have a final elimination round?

5 is even tenuous. Honestly, probably best to do a bunch of paired tests (ABX on preference), but failing that, 2 rounds of 4 (do just one song), followed by another 2 rounds of 4, where 2 drivers (randomly pre-selected, not based on first round results) are use from the prior two rounds.

E.g. something like:
1.) A-B-C-D
2.) E-F-G-H

(Rename drivers, mix order, and a new piece) for last comparison:
3.) A-C-E-G
4.) B-D-F-H

"Only" requires you to do two recordings per driver, which is less than your previous effort. Quotations on "only" are to emphasize that I can only imagine how long this has taken you--thanks so much for the work you've done!

It'd be even more awesome if folks would attach a text file with their ranked preferences (1-4), as it might be that, overall, the best driver was the one that was consistently ranked #2 in everyone's test.

 

[BYRTT]

You are asking for a recording with Yamaha class AB amp for the 3FE22r16 right?

Yes find interesting to analyze and rule out if digital power amp was calibrated/dimensioned to feed a 16 ohm load at its best 🙂.

 

[irribeo]

For me this with filterless 3116 or another amp as comparison would be interesting because 3116filter simulation has impuls bouncing endlessly

 

[xrk971]

I like the 2 song comparison in 2 groups of 4 and mixing order up.

What two songs to use? That is the nice thing about being the one making the measurement - I can pick my own songs. 🙂

 

[lakcaj]

Sorry for quoting my own comment, but I think a potential solution to the "how to compare many drivers" problem is setting up something like a double-elimination tournament format.

Again, something like this:

Tournament Bracket Generator - Challonge

xrk971,

Thanks for all the work involved in setting this up. It was a lot of fun and I was surprised how much variation could be heard between the different drivers.

As you have additional drivers on the way, and are considering using lossless audio for the next round of auditions, I wonder if a double-elimination tournament style approach could be used. Something like this. It would encourage comparing only two drivers against each other at a time. It might also encourage more specifics in the discussions.

Not sure what would be the best way to execute it though. You could release the entire "tournament" structure on the first day and people could complete the whole thing at their convenience. In the tournament setup I linked to above, using 10 drivers doing four A/B comparisons every two days, it would take about 10 days to get through the entire "tournament".

Or - a double-elimination tournament setup might be more trouble than it's worth. Just wanted to throw the idea out there. I think I'll try it this way myself next time just to stay focused on only two drivers at any given time.