The wires also have their own resonances.
Especially at low frequencies, they will buzz and shake in combination with the added stiffness and weight.
This is another reason I do not use my exciters much below 100hz .
Mounting the exciters on to a spine will cure this problem though.
Did you also do a test of the DAEX25VT on the 10mm light eps, for comparison?
Steve.
Hello Eucy.
What part of my frequency response plots do you think are a fault?
Steve.
Hi Steve... I'm not saying they're at fault. You are questioning why you're getting strong results down to 40 Hz. while no one else is able to do that, particularly with small panels. You're the only one measuring with a Behringer...ipso facto...it would seem important to verify the results by another method... REW being the most easily available.
Eucy
Hello Eucy.
I have made and posted recordings and videos of my panels for people to listen to for themselves and hear the full frequency range.
The strong low frequencies are even stronger than on the videos and recordings as the microphones in my phone roll off above 50hz.
This is the confidence I have in my panels performance and sound.
I am not questioning why I am getting strong frequencies down to 40hz, I am questioning how I am getting strong frequencies down to 40hz.
I have measured other speakers using my behringer including my transmission line speakers. with no problems.
And did use it for room correction for a while.
The behringers are hooked up permanently in my system 100%of the time for the last at least 20 years with only one mains capacitor replacement.
But as I have said before, I would not use my panels down to 40hz or below , I use my transmission line speakers or reflex speakers as they give me more power at these frequencies, without all the problems of the panels at these frequencies.
Steve.
I have made and posted recordings and videos of my panels for people to listen to for themselves and hear the full frequency range.
The strong low frequencies are even stronger than on the videos and recordings as the microphones in my phone roll off above 50hz.
This is the confidence I have in my panels performance and sound.
I am not questioning why I am getting strong frequencies down to 40hz, I am questioning how I am getting strong frequencies down to 40hz.
I have measured other speakers using my behringer including my transmission line speakers. with no problems.
And did use it for room correction for a while.
The behringers are hooked up permanently in my system 100%of the time for the last at least 20 years with only one mains capacitor replacement.
But as I have said before, I would not use my panels down to 40hz or below , I use my transmission line speakers or reflex speakers as they give me more power at these frequencies, without all the problems of the panels at these frequencies.
Steve.
Hello Eric.
Not really, I just don't care anymore 🤷
I have posted different recordings of my various panels to Christian Using voice from the microphone and music from the computer at the same time to see how they could be used for small PA work .
He probably thinks I am a right nutcase 🤪
My mouth was too close to the behringer microphone which had some foam wrapped around as a wind prevention.
So it was heavily distorted.
Steve.
Hello Eric.
This is a very good frequency response, with only the 3 humps in the midrange, this is very easy to reduce without causing problems.
Although I am a little suspicious about the peak at 2.5k and maybe the one at 1.5k, but this is a little low in frequency.
The 2.5k could be exciter noise of some sort?
What would the flow chart look like after these alterations?
You could try my method of using thin film to reduce the peak at about 13k and extend the frequency response a little.
All you have to do is stretch the thin film over about 8 inches or so of the exciter area using masking tape.
This will not damage your panels as other methods do and is very easy to implement.
This should also help with more detail in the upper midrange as well because of the very light weight of the thin film passive radiation.
You could try different sizes or even cover the whole surface.
I did not carry on with these experiments as I should have, but the proplex panel and the other hard surface panels I used this on sounded much more informative and natural.
Steve.
I can't suggest what is the best material or design to be used as a Peripheral Interface on a DML Panel.
I can suggest that if a Soft Adhesive Foam Tape is wanted? There are products available that are supplied with pertinent information to show how they are design to function, from being very very supple and yielding, through to being with a hardness and unyielding.
The Foam shown in the Link is very very supple and is available as a Thickness ranging from 2mm - 50mm, with a Width of up to 1000mm. I know this product and it is extremely soft and low resistance.
My knowing EKI Foam through usage in the past, allows for me to inform, the softness is very very different to other Foams and Neoprene Type Materials having been handled.
EKI in comparison has no real indication if offers a resistance, a Panel Suspended on this material will be as free as it can possibly be to react to Amplitude within the DML and the migrating energies transferring to the periphery of the Panel.
If other resistances at the Periphery are of interest, there are other Foam Tapes and other Tape Types, the Higher Number with the Shore 00 will add hardness to the material and increase resistance to move freely, Shore A might be too much harness and resistance.
Shore 00 is like a uncured Silicone Sealant as a Softness, Shore A is like a well chewed Chewing Gum as a Softness.
https://www.ekibv.com/foam-rubber/epdm-foam/eki493
I can suggest that if a Soft Adhesive Foam Tape is wanted? There are products available that are supplied with pertinent information to show how they are design to function, from being very very supple and yielding, through to being with a hardness and unyielding.
The Foam shown in the Link is very very supple and is available as a Thickness ranging from 2mm - 50mm, with a Width of up to 1000mm. I know this product and it is extremely soft and low resistance.
My knowing EKI Foam through usage in the past, allows for me to inform, the softness is very very different to other Foams and Neoprene Type Materials having been handled.
EKI in comparison has no real indication if offers a resistance, a Panel Suspended on this material will be as free as it can possibly be to react to Amplitude within the DML and the migrating energies transferring to the periphery of the Panel.
If other resistances at the Periphery are of interest, there are other Foam Tapes and other Tape Types, the Higher Number with the Shore 00 will add hardness to the material and increase resistance to move freely, Shore A might be too much harness and resistance.
Shore 00 is like a uncured Silicone Sealant as a Softness, Shore A is like a well chewed Chewing Gum as a Softness.
https://www.ekibv.com/foam-rubber/epdm-foam/eki493
Last edited:
Yep... Pretty close Eric... Rare also methinks... Well done.
Btw... Did you read my request on the pettals (all lowercase for me) site??
Eucy
@moray james I chose to present this, as there are from individuals doing DML Panels and seen as those with the most experience, that are quite specific about a DML Panels base material, dimension and thickness, along with other Panel Treatments that can be added. All is quite easy to comprehend and are easily suggested as being standardized.
Methods for Supporting a Panel are not a Standardized Practice, there are many used, I am not sure if this is just individuals having access to different materials, or the designs are ones that the user feels has added benefits for the DML Panel when producing sound.
Having a Material that can be used at the Periphery as a Suspension for the Panel that is a Standardized Material and anybody can see how to achieve it for being used is a Win.
Having a Material that is very easy to identify, and being one that has intrinsic properties that may prove to be very beneficial when a Panel is suspended and producing sound, brings opportunities for all producing Panels to experience.
The Material suggested can be supplied in a Variety of Thicknesses and Widths.
A Fact First before a Hypothetical.
I used Forex Foam as Turntable Platter Mats, I purchased the Foam in 3mm and 5mm cut as a 300mm Diameter.
My first experience was with the 3mm, and it was rejected immediately, with the material not being considered any further.
At a later date a Selection of Metal and Ceramic Platter Mats were being tried out and for some reason, I decided to enter the 5mm Forex Foam Mat, which was its first ever use.
The 5mm Foam was a real treat to be used, it preserved all the important info allowing it to become sound as well as any Mat used and valued for its contribution.
I then added the 3mm Forex Foam and Kapow - Ugly colouration with the Mat being Not Wanted and immediately rejected??
Hypothetical
Suggesting the Peripheral Frame has a Eki Foam used to Suspend the Panel, where the Frame has a attachment of 20mm of Eki and the Panel has a attachment of 10mm of Eki.
The Foam used being Shore 00 @ 2mm x 50mm, this design leaves 20mm of free moving foam and might be seen to do the job required.
Another Panel is produced where the Frame @20mm attachment and Panel @ 10mm attachment is still maintained.
The change being the Eki is now Shore 00 30 @ 4mm x 150mm, giving 120mm free movement of an 100% increased in thickness foam that has a slight increase resistance to the freest movement, and there it is the Eureka moment
.
There are always many many questions, but experimentation is the DML Way, with Objective and Subjective evaluation being the underpinning for options being suggested as a result of experiences had.
Methods for Supporting a Panel are not a Standardized Practice, there are many used, I am not sure if this is just individuals having access to different materials, or the designs are ones that the user feels has added benefits for the DML Panel when producing sound.
Having a Material that can be used at the Periphery as a Suspension for the Panel that is a Standardized Material and anybody can see how to achieve it for being used is a Win.
Having a Material that is very easy to identify, and being one that has intrinsic properties that may prove to be very beneficial when a Panel is suspended and producing sound, brings opportunities for all producing Panels to experience.
The Material suggested can be supplied in a Variety of Thicknesses and Widths.
A Fact First before a Hypothetical.
I used Forex Foam as Turntable Platter Mats, I purchased the Foam in 3mm and 5mm cut as a 300mm Diameter.
My first experience was with the 3mm, and it was rejected immediately, with the material not being considered any further.
At a later date a Selection of Metal and Ceramic Platter Mats were being tried out and for some reason, I decided to enter the 5mm Forex Foam Mat, which was its first ever use.
The 5mm Foam was a real treat to be used, it preserved all the important info allowing it to become sound as well as any Mat used and valued for its contribution.
I then added the 3mm Forex Foam and Kapow - Ugly colouration with the Mat being Not Wanted and immediately rejected??
Hypothetical
Suggesting the Peripheral Frame has a Eki Foam used to Suspend the Panel, where the Frame has a attachment of 20mm of Eki and the Panel has a attachment of 10mm of Eki.
The Foam used being Shore 00 @ 2mm x 50mm, this design leaves 20mm of free moving foam and might be seen to do the job required.
Another Panel is produced where the Frame @20mm attachment and Panel @ 10mm attachment is still maintained.
The change being the Eki is now Shore 00 30 @ 4mm x 150mm, giving 120mm free movement of an 100% increased in thickness foam that has a slight increase resistance to the freest movement, and there it is the Eureka moment
.There are always many many questions, but experimentation is the DML Way, with Objective and Subjective evaluation being the underpinning for options being suggested as a result of experiences had.