Leob said:
I could easily add some printed TPU spacers that holds up the exciters, but I'm still not really convinced it would be a good idea. It seems logical, and is what I did with my Daytons, but they still developed issues and makes things much more complicated and sensitive to the tiniest misalignments.
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Just for my info. & memory, could you please tell me the model number of the Daytons that developed issues/problems ?
I could easily add some printed TPU spacers that holds up the exciters, but I'm still not really convinced it would be a good idea. It seems logical, and is what I did with my Daytons, but they still developed issues and makes things much more complicated and sensitive to the tiniest misalignments.
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Just for my info. & memory, could you please tell me the model number of the Daytons that developed issues/problems ?
It is the EX30HESF2-4.
Would have mentioned them by model number if I could remember it and didn't have to look it up every time 😀 Another advantage for the X32-4 😉
Would have mentioned them by model number if I could remember it and didn't have to look it up every time 😀 Another advantage for the X32-4 😉
I am starting to wonder if I have wasted my money on these new exciters?
Apart from the metal casing on the new exciter, they look pretty similar.
I checked the temperature of the old 10watt and new 24watt and they seem to be exactly the same .
I expected the new one to take more power without overheating when driving heavier panels.
I am wondering whether this is a 10watt exciter with short term 24watts? they also sound the same.
The only difference is that the new exciter has an early roll off above 10k, I presume this is because of the 3M sticky tape supplied with the exciter?
Maybe it is just me being sceptical?
Steve.
Apart from the metal casing on the new exciter, they look pretty similar.
I checked the temperature of the old 10watt and new 24watt and they seem to be exactly the same .
I expected the new one to take more power without overheating when driving heavier panels.
I am wondering whether this is a 10watt exciter with short term 24watts? they also sound the same.
The only difference is that the new exciter has an early roll off above 10k, I presume this is because of the 3M sticky tape supplied with the exciter?
Maybe it is just me being sceptical?
Steve.
@spedge
Not following exactly which two exciters you are comparing, and their thermal management might differ, so that they seem to be the same temp at same power level doesn't mean that max power they can handle is the same. And if they are from different manufacturers the power ratings might be calculated in different ways.
Also I find it can be hard to grasp the logarithmic nature of power handling and dB.
We like to try to make sense of it as linear, but doubling the power results in a barely noticeable difference. So the difference between 10w and 24w is actually quite small. You basically have to double twice to get what is perceived as a clear significant difference, so 40w. Double that again, to 80w, and you get almost double perceived volume compared to 10w.
Not following exactly which two exciters you are comparing, and their thermal management might differ, so that they seem to be the same temp at same power level doesn't mean that max power they can handle is the same. And if they are from different manufacturers the power ratings might be calculated in different ways.
Also I find it can be hard to grasp the logarithmic nature of power handling and dB.
We like to try to make sense of it as linear, but doubling the power results in a barely noticeable difference. So the difference between 10w and 24w is actually quite small. You basically have to double twice to get what is perceived as a clear significant difference, so 40w. Double that again, to 80w, and you get almost double perceived volume compared to 10w.
Just a little bit of technical stuff >
So long as a speaker isn't going into dynamic compression/overload,
every time you double the drive-watts you get a 3dB volume increase.
Let's say you were getting 93dB SPL for 10 watts and take it from there >
20 watts would give you 96 dB SPL.
40 watts would give you 99 dB SPL.
80 watts would give you 102 dB SPL.
Going back to 'vintage times' it was considered that 3dB was the basic minimum change that ALL people could notice.
The dB change for what is considered to be double the volume is debated to be between 6 and 10 dB.
You can see why I have chosen to use twin 40 watt exciters per panel. I want to have some 'dynamic SPL capacity'.
So long as a speaker isn't going into dynamic compression/overload,
every time you double the drive-watts you get a 3dB volume increase.
Let's say you were getting 93dB SPL for 10 watts and take it from there >
20 watts would give you 96 dB SPL.
40 watts would give you 99 dB SPL.
80 watts would give you 102 dB SPL.
Going back to 'vintage times' it was considered that 3dB was the basic minimum change that ALL people could notice.
The dB change for what is considered to be double the volume is debated to be between 6 and 10 dB.
You can see why I have chosen to use twin 40 watt exciters per panel. I want to have some 'dynamic SPL capacity'.
I was just hoping the 24watt 25fhe-4 would run cooler than my 10watt exciter at my normal listening levels.
I am still a little suspicious that they are basically the same exciter?
But because of the 4 mounting holes, I might try some different mounting techniques , at some point in time?
Steve.
I am still a little suspicious that they are basically the same exciter?
But because of the 4 mounting holes, I might try some different mounting techniques , at some point in time?
Steve.
Mister audio.
With EPS you do not need two exciters for excessive dynamic spl capacity, in a normal home environment.
You will reach pain threshold long before that😱
Steve.
With EPS you do not need two exciters for excessive dynamic spl capacity, in a normal home environment.
You will reach pain threshold long before that😱
Steve.
These are easy to mount. The four holes can be tapped and appropriate length bolts simply applied from the rear through whatever you want to mount them on. Just one example below. Soft rubber washers could be used along with foam around the rear perimeter of exciter if desired for a somewhat giving mount. I generally just hard mount.
Attachments
For anybody that is interested in adding a non-permanent material, to function as damping / dissipater of unwanted energies being transferred from a Exciter of anywhere else ot is manifesting on a Panel.
Newplast Modellers Putty is a non-permanent substance, it has been measured for its performance and has Damping/Dissipation properties that measure very close to some of the most attractive materials used in audio for these purposes.
It has also been used coupled to materials that have useful structural properties, but fall off in the desirable measurements, the addition of Newplast to the material has substantially moved its measurements towards the most attractive ones recorded.
To give an idea, as a non-permanent material that could be considered, such as a Plasticene, this materials damping / dissipation is approx' 60% less effective than Newplast.
Newplast Modellers Putty is a non-permanent substance, it has been measured for its performance and has Damping/Dissipation properties that measure very close to some of the most attractive materials used in audio for these purposes.
It has also been used coupled to materials that have useful structural properties, but fall off in the desirable measurements, the addition of Newplast to the material has substantially moved its measurements towards the most attractive ones recorded.
To give an idea, as a non-permanent material that could be considered, such as a Plasticene, this materials damping / dissipation is approx' 60% less effective than Newplast.
JohnnoG.
I usually use blu-tack for various damping duties, as it adheres to many surfaces very well and is cheap.
So now we may have another option.
Steve.
I usually use blu-tack for various damping duties, as it adheres to many surfaces very well and is cheap.
So now we may have another option.
Steve.
It does not say anything about how to setup a dml panel. It looks like they are flush against the back wall.
Although i´m experimenting several materials as well combinations in the same honeycomb structure for more powerfull usage, i wanted trasparency to my listening room.
So, not expecting much sound wise, nevertheless because of material ressonance frequencies i did put a polyethylene (syntetic glass) 1000X500x4mm with DAEX25FHE4 exciters because of their top end roll off. And... the "joke" turns out serious.
It`s playing every day with soft eq and xo at 90Hz in a room with 30 m2, 4m apart from each other and hangigng on the ceiling with fishing string.
Just try.
RMAM,
I'm wondering if the material you are talking about is PMMA, rather than polyethylene. PMMA is also known as acrylic or plexiglass. Among the materials I've tested, PMMA seems to have very good internal damping (as your post suggests), based on the impedance results in the link below.
Eric
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...s-as-a-full-range-speaker.272576/post-7499940
Sounds good, I will have a look. How many Exciters are you using on one sheet? Which sub would you reccomend?
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The vendor specs indicate polyethylene, although is a general store (Leroy Merlin) not famous for their accuracy. So that´s a very good question.
In fact the sheets were mixed on the acrylic/pexiglass zone. I wil ltry to find the manufacturer and did ask my daughter to analise a sample in the laboratory.
I remember your measures in the post mentioned (thanks for your effort).
RobbeP
Just one exciter per sheet.
Maybe your sub question only can be made after you tell what`s your needs (room, budget, xo slope/s), selfpowered or passive...).
For example, now it`s playing a jbl w15 gti, but just because i have it, it`s an overkill for this room and for the levels i listen here he is at idle.
Just one exciter per sheet.
Maybe your sub question only can be made after you tell what`s your needs (room, budget, xo slope/s), selfpowered or passive...).
For example, now it`s playing a jbl w15 gti, but just because i have it, it`s an overkill for this room and for the levels i listen here he is at idle.
Thanks Leob
in your opinion if you have done some tests
How important is the depth of the frame holding the membrane for low frequencies?
Is your membrane connected to the frame over the entire frame or just part of it?
in your opinion if you have done some tests
How important is the depth of the frame holding the membrane for low frequencies?
Is your membrane connected to the frame over the entire frame or just part of it?
@pixel1
I think the frame doesn't need to be super stiff or strong, and the clamping should be really minimal. I have four small soft pads, 10x20mm, holding the plate in place on each side, so a total of 8 . Heavier clamping will make the panels sound too dead and reduce sensitivity. The deeper bass you want the softer the suspension has to be.
Generally I'm surprised how little of the vibrations are carried over to the frame, and purpose is really mostly to add protection and slightly dampen the plate to avoid ringing.
I think the frame doesn't need to be super stiff or strong, and the clamping should be really minimal. I have four small soft pads, 10x20mm, holding the plate in place on each side, so a total of 8 . Heavier clamping will make the panels sound too dead and reduce sensitivity. The deeper bass you want the softer the suspension has to be.
Generally I'm surprised how little of the vibrations are carried over to the frame, and purpose is really mostly to add protection and slightly dampen the plate to avoid ringing.