Last night I applied some egg White to a strip of 1.5mm wood from the crate.
When I applied the egg White the wet surface eggxpanded 🤣 sorry I could not resist 🤗 and bowed upwards.
But when it dried it had bowed the other way.
This morning I coated the other side which made the wet side expand the other way as in the first picture.
But when it dried it pulled the strip of wood back into place as in the second picture.
So egg White does cause tension on the surfaces, a slight stiffening.
I should of weighed the panel first 😱
Never mind.
I applied a couple of coats to two small pieces of card before trying to egg White them together, it looks like it has stuck but I'm not sure it is a good enough bond all over ?
Steve.
When I applied the egg White the wet surface eggxpanded 🤣 sorry I could not resist 🤗 and bowed upwards.
But when it dried it had bowed the other way.
This morning I coated the other side which made the wet side expand the other way as in the first picture.
But when it dried it pulled the strip of wood back into place as in the second picture.
So egg White does cause tension on the surfaces, a slight stiffening.
I should of weighed the panel first 😱
Never mind.
I applied a couple of coats to two small pieces of card before trying to egg White them together, it looks like it has stuck but I'm not sure it is a good enough bond all over ?
Steve.
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Hello Alaska129
Congratulations for reading this thread from A to Z... and beyond Z! It is a long and difficult task. I am happy if the pdf I posted help you in decisions.
DML are really strange things. At home, they are in a daily use. I think what it is really good from DML is how they radiate the sound in the room and how you can forget them. You can't expect frequency response as with in a pistonic loudspeaker in the axis in an anechoic chamber but in a real room, it is a good candidate.
In your list, you mention "Formica" : is it the laminated materail use as finishing layer for furniture? My father had some samples years ago but it was in my memory a very stiff and heavy material. The density is the key of the efficiency. To have the stiffest material is not the target. The target is to have the right stiffness for the targeted low frequency with the panel dimension. If it is the formica I know, it will lead to low efficiency and large panels.
Christian
Hi Christian;
Yes Formica is a laminate used to make counter tops and you are probably correct in it being to stiff
Pete
Hello Steve
Funny experiment. The tension seems high.
I just had a look at the possibility of egg white as glue ingredient... not convinced by the performance even the need.
Egg white appears more has a binging (correct binding? ingredient that links the other ingredients) agent in painting but it is the yolk which is used (tempera)..
Have you tried the grain filler property of egg white?
Christian.
The strip of wood I use was pretty rough and the whites just soaked straight in .
I must admit I started this , and I am wondering why ?
Just thinking about it, I have coated one of my crate ply panels in pva, and I could coat the other in egg White and see if it sounds any different?
Then maybe I will leave it there, and move on .
Steve.
The strip of wood I use was pretty rough and the whites just soaked straight in .
I must admit I started this , and I am wondering why ?
Just thinking about it, I have coated one of my crate ply panels in pva, and I could coat the other in egg White and see if it sounds any different?
Then maybe I will leave it there, and move on .
Steve.
Hello Steve & Christian:
Please don’t get the impression that I’m stuck on only the large panel size. I’m open to all. While I wanted to do my first build with 3mm Baltic Birch, it seems it will be unavailable indefinitely. Thus, the search for alternate materials. Today I found Marine Grade Meranti 1088 ply in 3mm. The price is affordable. I’d like to know your thoughts on this material?
If it is not stiff enough, I could always try the egg was? Also thinking I should stay with the 3-4 width to height ratio?
Maybe 24 x 32 in. or 60.96 x81.28 cm?
Thank you
Pete
Please don’t get the impression that I’m stuck on only the large panel size. I’m open to all. While I wanted to do my first build with 3mm Baltic Birch, it seems it will be unavailable indefinitely. Thus, the search for alternate materials. Today I found Marine Grade Meranti 1088 ply in 3mm. The price is affordable. I’d like to know your thoughts on this material?
If it is not stiff enough, I could always try the egg was? Also thinking I should stay with the 3-4 width to height ratio?
Maybe 24 x 32 in. or 60.96 x81.28 cm?
Thank you
Pete
Hello Pete
The Baltic Birch is a dense wood. It gives very stiff plywood. I remember seeing it as the main choice of wood to build large bass loudspeaker (Onken , mini Onken in the "Audiophile" french magazine).
My choice for plywood was poplar. It is the lightest one easily available here in DIY store in 3mm thickness.
I don't think it is necessary to add stiffness to a plywood. It is stiff enough by itself (too stiff?).
Additional damping by the finishing coating is I think more important (see also the posts from Eucy about plywood and finishing).
As the plywood is already stiff, egg white won't really change it. It has an effect on much less stiff material according to the last posts. Egg white will fill the grain of the wood so the finishing coating won't go in the wood. At this step, I don't know if it is a good thing. I guess not as I am in the idea (this is opinion) the usual material we have are not damped enough... and often to stiff.
Really if you want a starting point, 3mm poplar plywood is a good one. In my current experience it is the material that gives good results avoiding disappointment, need of equalizing.
Christian
Hi Pete.
apart from my crate ply and my veneer panels, the only large 3mm ply panels I have used was my heavily framed full range(down to 40hz) panels which you would have read and listened to on this site ?
is it going to be free floating or foam mounted (damped ) or rigid mounting (I don't know if you could call this damping as it increases output ? ).
Also the exciter mounting can be a problem as ply does warp a little over time.
Mine were just hanging off the back as they are quite light 85g , so no problem with warping.
Even fairly small panels should reach down to 200hz before problems start.
The canvas panel would be ideal for this and is easy to build ( already built actually) (but which ply to use and how much of the canvas to cover the ply ? )
You will probably want to experiment with other materials so I would not get carried away with too expensive materials to start with.
But the choice is yours.
Steve.
apart from my crate ply and my veneer panels, the only large 3mm ply panels I have used was my heavily framed full range(down to 40hz) panels which you would have read and listened to on this site ?
is it going to be free floating or foam mounted (damped ) or rigid mounting (I don't know if you could call this damping as it increases output ? ).
Also the exciter mounting can be a problem as ply does warp a little over time.
Mine were just hanging off the back as they are quite light 85g , so no problem with warping.
Even fairly small panels should reach down to 200hz before problems start.
The canvas panel would be ideal for this and is easy to build ( already built actually) (but which ply to use and how much of the canvas to cover the ply ? )
You will probably want to experiment with other materials so I would not get carried away with too expensive materials to start with.
But the choice is yours.
Steve.
Hi Christian
Sadly the DIY stores here only carry the 5mm Revolution Ply that Veleric used in post #838, and 6mm poplar. Due to the shortage of 3mm birch right now, the Meranti 1088 ply in 3mm is what being used by a lot of the CNC folks. It is a light wood so maybe closer properties to poplar. And it's Cheep
Pete
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Hello Steve
I was going to start out with free hanging panels. The Meranti 1088 ply in 3mm is pretty cheep and the only other 3mm I can find is Birch hobby panels from the DIY store aprox. 30.48 x 6+0.96cm. The canvas is interesting do you find they loosen over time ?
Pete
Hello Pete
Do you know which wood is used in the Meranti 1088?
My experience with 3mm poplar is that it warped significantly (let say more than 2cm from top to bottom on a 1.2m height) when I applied the varnish. Don't proceed like me: I varnished one face and when dried the second one.
It became flat again when I glued it on a frame with a foam suspension. At this time, i was wondering it the strength of the glue on the foam is enough to counter act the warping. It did it. Those panels were built one year ago. I haven't noticed a change.
I have had canvas for more than 6 months (built last December), the tension seems still correct... at least the sound remains the same. The only noticeable point is they were aside some months; at the very beginning of the new use, the sound was different. Was it the change from my line array to the canvas or the canvas itself? don't know. Most probably the second.
Christian
Hello Christian
This is what I’ve found so far.
What timber is Meranti?
Meranti is a soft to firm hardwood timber. Meranti is not subject to warping or twisting and is dent resistant. Because of its stability it can be used for a wide variety of applications.
It is sometimes mistakenly called Phillippine Mahogany. It is actually made from the wood of another species entirely known as Shorea.
Meranti marine plywood is used for a variety of marine craft building projects as well as cabinets and decks among others. It is exceptionally strong and durable. Ideal for projects where structure is important. It was used a lot in Chris Craft Boats.
Shorea is a tropical hardwood. It has characteristics that are similar to teak wood in terms of appearance, strength and durability; it is also used for many of the same applications. It is especially resistant to damage from insect, fungus and moisture decay. Its rich elegance and beautiful appearance have made it a favorite wood for yacht building
Pete
"Lauan | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwood)" https://www.wood-database.com/lauan/#:~:text=The wood name Lauan is,of this type of wood.
It's a wood widely used in Aus, esp for interior joinery. Also called Pacific Maple here. Can have a silvery cast to it when varnished. Softer, lighter and more open grained that pine. Similar to poplar in that respect. Usually straight grained in strip timber
I personally don't like the clear finished look of it ...others do of course.
Available here in 2.7 and 3.5mm thick ply. Interior grade, CD class ( I think)
Would be worth a try I guess My gut favours poplar but you never know without a go
Eucy
Alaska129.
If you are rolling off a canvas panel at 200hz or so, the tension is not so important, although wetting should tighten the canvas again ?
If XO of the canvas panel at say 300hz, you don't even need the ply.
the card panel I am making at the moment is cheap (free if you use old boxes) and hopefully should go down to 150hz or so if I'm lucky.
we will see .
The proplex is a full range free floating panel , I do not know if the properties are the same as correx or similar signage products?
steven.
If you are rolling off a canvas panel at 200hz or so, the tension is not so important, although wetting should tighten the canvas again ?
If XO of the canvas panel at say 300hz, you don't even need the ply.
the card panel I am making at the moment is cheap (free if you use old boxes) and hopefully should go down to 150hz or so if I'm lucky.
we will see .
The proplex is a full range free floating panel , I do not know if the properties are the same as correx or similar signage products?
steven.
I haven't read through many posts on this thread over the past weeks, but as I came across a commercial DML product|company I hadn't seen before, I thought it might add to the discussion. Take a look at https://www.hiddensound.ch. The company describes the panels as balsa wood and some type of acoustic foam. Not certain of the exciters yet.