I'm not sure how similar Correx is to proplex, is it as robust as the proplex ?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=bl_d...eywords=Boxes+And+Board+International+Limited
A1 seems like a good size to start with ?
5 panels for £21.
Steve
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=bl_d...eywords=Boxes+And+Board+International+Limited
A1 seems like a good size to start with ?
5 panels for £21.
Steve
One method that can be considered as an aesthetic finish, which might be a very good option to consider, if keeping weight to an absolute minimum if a key consideration, will be a Hydrographic that is applied through Immersion Printing.
This as a method is used regularly in Automation Customisation, there are too many options to suggest as a design, from Carbon Fibre effect through to a Modern Art.
It is well worth having a look to see if what is on offer fits in with what one considers as being Professional Finish for their DML's
Steve
For me it is great you are recommending the Panel Samples I sent.
I'll be posting your New Sample Materials next week, do you want the Dimensions to remain the same as previous ?
Additionally, after watching a TV Programme where a Leather Parchment Paper was produced using a method that is said to have been used for Thousands of years, back to the Ancient Greek Times.
I could not but think it might be a new material to add to the investigations. It certainly would be catapulting an ancient practice for storage of recorded information into the present, where it would be used to transmit recorded information as audible and ultimately comprehensible.
As for the aesthetics, in my mind, it is looking very nice natural, but would also be quite fitting and wonderful with a ancient text applied to it
This as a method is used regularly in Automation Customisation, there are too many options to suggest as a design, from Carbon Fibre effect through to a Modern Art.
It is well worth having a look to see if what is on offer fits in with what one considers as being Professional Finish for their DML's
Steve
For me it is great you are recommending the Panel Samples I sent.
I'll be posting your New Sample Materials next week, do you want the Dimensions to remain the same as previous ?
Additionally, after watching a TV Programme where a Leather Parchment Paper was produced using a method that is said to have been used for Thousands of years, back to the Ancient Greek Times.
I could not but think it might be a new material to add to the investigations. It certainly would be catapulting an ancient practice for storage of recorded information into the present, where it would be used to transmit recorded information as audible and ultimately comprehensible.
As for the aesthetics, in my mind, it is looking very nice natural, but would also be quite fitting and wonderful with a ancient text applied to it
I'm only looking at very efficient materials since a 6dB difference that would mean 4 times as many amps, plates and exciters compared to the EPS for the same output.
Got the DAEX30HESF-4 and made one test plate with 25mm neopor. This time not sanded since it didn't seem necessary with these plates, and made a thin coat of hide glue then a very thin shellac layer on top. It does sound even tighter than the previous favourite, another 25mm neopor plate (with hide glue, but sanded and no shellac and the DAEX25FHE-4 exciters instead). Sensitivity is about the same, but it seems to behave much better than the old plate at high volumes especially.
Of course I cannot really tell what difference is due to the exciter, plate treatment or exciter placement which is slightly different as well, but it seems to be the case that when turning up the level to slight distortion, I was pushing the DAEX25FHE-4 too hard, not the amp or the plate. Looking forward to get the amps to see how hard the DAEX30HESF-4 can be pushed, because now it does seem like the amp might be the limit.
The Link is to a Leather Parchment Paper this is produced to the finish that is looking to be Translucent, which I also take as an indicator that it is quite light as a material of this type.
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/108...+leather&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&frs=1&bes=1&sts=1
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/108...+leather&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&frs=1&bes=1&sts=1
Leon.
It is hard to predict how many db a certain panel can take before things start getting nasty.
EPS is the only material that will not overload my exciters, but there is no way I could turn the volume on my small 10watt digital amp anyware near full volume, and be able to stay in the room.
It would be too much for the room and my ears.
Steve.
It is hard to predict how many db a certain panel can take before things start getting nasty.
EPS is the only material that will not overload my exciters, but there is no way I could turn the volume on my small 10watt digital amp anyware near full volume, and be able to stay in the room.
It would be too much for the room and my ears.
Steve.
Hello Eucy
From my side, 3mm poplar ply it at the top of the choice of DML material with its good balance between performances (sound, efficiency), availability (DIY store), easy to work, low cost...
In my first build, the finishing is several layers of a highly diluted varnish. Not a too bad looking but not excellent. The sound even without EQ is more than correct.
To make more compact DML, I had a look to thinner ply as you propose as core material but they are heavier than poplar (at least the one I found here = France). I will have an additional look to see if they exist in more than 3 layers.
My main point : I see you use shellac.
When I search around shellac, I find the technique called French polish (FR : vernis au tampon). In this technique which is classical for high quality furniture or music instrument, there are several preparation phases :
- sanding
- oil application
- wood space feeling - plugging the pores of the wood -(silk pumice - not sure of the translation, or polyurethane varnish under layer...)
- varnish application with a pad (fabric)
Could you detail the process you use ?
Thank you
Christian
Hi Jaxboy.
As you say they are handy to swap a single exciter around different panels, although the panels will have 2 screw holes in them or glue?
But the sound will be impaired by the block of plastic between the coil and panel ?
So I sort of don't see the point ?
From my point of view anyway?
Steve.
As you say they are handy to swap a single exciter around different panels, although the panels will have 2 screw holes in them or glue?
But the sound will be impaired by the block of plastic between the coil and panel ?
So I sort of don't see the point ?
From my point of view anyway?
Steve.
Steve,
I wonder if you could shave the puck down so the pad is 1mm or so thick if that would improve their characteristics. That might make them so thin that they would snap too easily, though. Maybe if you shave the pad all the way off then glue on a thin pad of ply to the remaining center circle. Just brainstorming. I am satisfied with my artist canvases, so I am done experimenting.
I wonder if you could shave the puck down so the pad is 1mm or so thick if that would improve their characteristics. That might make them so thin that they would snap too easily, though. Maybe if you shave the pad all the way off then glue on a thin pad of ply to the remaining center circle. Just brainstorming. I am satisfied with my artist canvases, so I am done experimenting.
I have made it known that I have a long time usage of Quad ESL's, owning ESL 57's and having heard on regular occasion later designs, along with the latest of the models.
Until recently, the only Speakers I was considering to be produced to be used as an alternative has been an Open Baffle, for which I have had the drivers purchased and in waiting the build for a period of time.
On my investigations of OB Builds, the Diploe Configuration often shows up as use for a driver, I have seen builds where all frequencies are covered by the use of a Dipole Assembled Driver.
I'm probably going to show where I am deficient in DML understanding with my next inquiry.
Has there been a design produced where the Exciters have been mounted in a Dipole Configuration ?
Would the configuration be of Value / No Value to the DML ?
Until recently, the only Speakers I was considering to be produced to be used as an alternative has been an Open Baffle, for which I have had the drivers purchased and in waiting the build for a period of time.
On my investigations of OB Builds, the Diploe Configuration often shows up as use for a driver, I have seen builds where all frequencies are covered by the use of a Dipole Assembled Driver.
I'm probably going to show where I am deficient in DML understanding with my next inquiry.
Has there been a design produced where the Exciters have been mounted in a Dipole Configuration ?
Would the configuration be of Value / No Value to the DML ?
Hi Steve
I do find the idea of a Panel in use with an Eminence Bass Driver appealing.
I have 5 x Eminence Beta 15's to be used for a OB Sub. My first Sub was going to be a Ripole Design, as this has a Figure of Eight Dispersion, which I thought was best suited to the ESL Dispersion.
A H Frame Design was to be used for the Full Range OB, and the Ripole could have been introduced to see the effect.
With the reference to Dipole I was referring to a Front and Rear mounted Accelerator, both in direct centre line with each other on the Panel.
I do find the idea of a Panel in use with an Eminence Bass Driver appealing.
I have 5 x Eminence Beta 15's to be used for a OB Sub. My first Sub was going to be a Ripole Design, as this has a Figure of Eight Dispersion, which I thought was best suited to the ESL Dispersion.
A H Frame Design was to be used for the Full Range OB, and the Ripole could have been introduced to see the effect.
With the reference to Dipole I was referring to a Front and Rear mounted Accelerator, both in direct centre line with each other on the Panel.
JohnnoG.
That's OK ,I'm just chilling out by the pool😎
I was thinking of this push pull method for my rigid ply panels to increase the power handling but never got around to it.
A 15inch cone driver on an open baffle would most probably do a better job.
I don't remember the 57s being able to go that low in frequency power wise.
Rolling off slowly below 200hz if I remember correctly ?
Your 2ft proplex panels carries on to at least 40hz with my exciters.
But both would probebly suffer the room suckouts somewhere in the 100hz to 300hz regions?
But some well placed weights should reduce this somewhat with a dml.
Now where did I put that G and T
😎
That's OK ,I'm just chilling out by the pool😎
I was thinking of this push pull method for my rigid ply panels to increase the power handling but never got around to it.
A 15inch cone driver on an open baffle would most probably do a better job.
I don't remember the 57s being able to go that low in frequency power wise.
Rolling off slowly below 200hz if I remember correctly ?
Your 2ft proplex panels carries on to at least 40hz with my exciters.
But both would probebly suffer the room suckouts somewhere in the 100hz to 300hz regions?
But some well placed weights should reduce this somewhat with a dml.
Now where did I put that G and T
😎
Hi Christian:
I think you are correct wrt the poplar ply - It will be hard to surpass with more complicated and costly materials.
Shellac = French Polishing yes.
I'm far from an expert in this but I have achieved quite good results with a very basic approach. I'm also after a satin finish not a mirror gloss one.
One issue with poplar is that it has a very bland finish - it's very pale and the grain pattern can be uninspiring. I initially only had Gold/Orange shellac and I thought that it would end up too yellow by itself so I tried first applying a very light stain to the ply which worked OK but I think could be avoided by using a mix of Garnet (dark) and Gold shellac instead.
So I bought flake shellac in gold, garnet and platina (blonde). The flakes keep indefinitely if stored in a dry cool place unlike premixed shellac.
3:1 Alcohol / Shellac mix by weight is a good middle mix (just a bit thinner that a "2lb cut' but you can try different ratios. I thinned out the first coat somewhat for penetration.
I didn't do any grain filling - I relied on judicious sanding back between coats which worked OK - I wanted to avoid too much junk in the panel and I don't mind a trace of grain showing. One luthier uses West System epoxy to seal the back and sides of open grained woods but not the soundboard (
Application- I have tried the traditional cloth method but it's difficult and takes much practice. I found that with practice I could brush it on quite well. When brushing you have to be quick and only brush with a forward or backwards motion, not both, work from one end to the other as evenly as possible across the panel and avoid going back over wet areas. Apply enough to the brush to get a wet finish and as soon as you start to use the brush load up - dip again and go - it's important to get a flow going so you end up with an even wet coat. I used a 30mm wide brush and stored it in a jar of alcohol between coats.
I haven't tried spraying, but it seem to be an ideal candidate as it's very thin and is easily cleaned out afterwards. Maybe I would revert to spraying if my panels were larger - long narrow panels would still be easily paintable however, it's when they start getting wider that makes it a bit more difficult, but you could probably just use a wider brush
It dries very quickly - I help it along with a heat gun on a low setting waved over it if I'm in a hurry.. make sure it's not dusty if you do that.
You can sand back after each coat dries. I use worn 240 grit paper or fine wet and dry paper.
I applied 4 coats sanding between each, and to remove the gloss after the final coat (which after 4 coats is still a bit uneven) I rub down with grade 0000 wire wool which blends the finish and gives a satin look.
I found the shellac finish is surprisingly tough - tougher I think than acrylic lacquer, so I believe it's and excellent way to finish timber in general - I applied it also to some pine feature strips and it turned out great. It's only drawback is sensitivity to moisture on tables etc but that doesn't apply in this case. It's stood the test of time on musical instruments so that's good enough for me.
Oil - I used no oil - I haven't had any issues with the finish on vibrating panels so I can't see the need for oil.
Go for it Christian
Good Luck
Eucy