2 vrms is a spec that consumer audio gear claims to be able to output. It never does. Line level - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stajo, you are wrong.
That wiki is not referring to maximum output levels of typical CDP and DVD equipment.
Typical maximum output levels of CDP and DVD is around 2Vac to 2.2Vac. Some but not many will lie outside this typical range.
If you don't believe this, then use Pano's test signals recorded at -9dB ref 0dBfs and measure the actual voltages from some of your digital sources using the CD test disc.
That wiki is not referring to maximum output levels of typical CDP and DVD equipment.
Typical maximum output levels of CDP and DVD is around 2Vac to 2.2Vac. Some but not many will lie outside this typical range.
If you don't believe this, then use Pano's test signals recorded at -9dB ref 0dBfs and measure the actual voltages from some of your digital sources using the CD test disc.
ZM You are right of course, numbers are useful in evaluation (see Value within evaluation) but! ... there are no published numbers for the Chenin phono section.
So, from experience 50W should rock the house with a 90dB speaker. Adding a second F4 would Potentially raise the available power. Available does not mean it will or could be used. Thinking it out further with your help...I don't think the drive is there. I simply fell down the rabit hole dreaming about building another lovely F4 instead of thinking it through.
I must need more signal swing to drive the amp I already own.
Cheers!
So, from experience 50W should rock the house with a 90dB speaker. Adding a second F4 would Potentially raise the available power. Available does not mean it will or could be used. Thinking it out further with your help...I don't think the drive is there. I simply fell down the rabit hole dreaming about building another lovely F4 instead of thinking it through.
I must need more signal swing to drive the amp I already own.
Cheers!
simple test - take appropriate signal cable with 3.5mm stereo plug (plug it in laptop or desktop pc headphone out) and RCAs (plug it in F4)
play something proper
if you have grunt with that , without hearing clipping of F4 , you need bigger cojones prior to F4
if it's still weak ...... you need F4 with bigger cojones
ta da. finaly someone that has listened to the results. go figure, listen for yourself (for clippings) and then do your math again. Andrew is stuck in figures. Show us andrew, a real record going close to 2 vrms. 100 dolares is going from me to you in a nanosecond once you show me music (memory scope accepted) in those levels
I don't need to listen to test tones to see you have interpreted the Wiki incorrectly.
You are wrong.
The maximum output of CDP & DVD players is as I have stated in post642, with very few exceptions.
I did run the Oasis album (What's the Story) Morning Glory? which is the loudest album I have got Loudness war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and measured the entire album with a memoryscope. I playbacked a non level normalized FLAC file thru a Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 and it peaked 790 mVrms at passage on the song Hey Now: The Focusrite specs +12 dBu = 3,08 Vrms.
My iPod Nano has 500mV output from the DAC adapter that bypasses the internal amp.
That into my 6CG7 Aikido with 19db (i think) gain is more than enough for room shaking sound levels from my F4 to my 90db efficient Technics SB-X50's (my avatar photo).
I have never taken them to full output with the F4 because that would be stupid loud.
The Pano test tones have my BluRay player output at 1.5V out but average voltage output during real music playback is more like 850mV.
This has proven to me that the F4 is more than capable of ludicrous volume levels once the speakers hit the 90db@1w efficiency level with plenty to spare.
That into my 6CG7 Aikido with 19db (i think) gain is more than enough for room shaking sound levels from my F4 to my 90db efficient Technics SB-X50's (my avatar photo).
I have never taken them to full output with the F4 because that would be stupid loud.
The Pano test tones have my BluRay player output at 1.5V out but average voltage output during real music playback is more like 850mV.
This has proven to me that the F4 is more than capable of ludicrous volume levels once the speakers hit the 90db@1w efficiency level with plenty to spare.
I don't think a CD will fit inside an ipod.
You create a CD with the test signal and use that to check the output of the CDP and/or DVD.
So I've got mine built. Thanks to everyone who's helped me out. I had zero issues!
Well, I've been biased at 250mv for about 2 hours now and the heatsinks are... about room temperature...
I have way more power than my speakers can handle now, they're 3" full rangers. Hahaha.
Chain goes like this: ODAC --> Bottlehead Smash with Smash-Up --> Bottlehead S.E.X. 2.1 with C4S --> F4 --> Blumenstein Mini Orcas, there's more clarity up high and more resolution in the bass. I've loaded the SEX with 22ohm 5watt resistors, and I'm on the 16ohm tap.
I ran the F4 with just the Smash at first and that was very good as well. The SEX filled in the sound much more though, can't put it into words.
With the amp being room temperature am I okay, or can I get better performance with it being warmer? (Should I crank the bias up?)
Well, I've been biased at 250mv for about 2 hours now and the heatsinks are... about room temperature...
I have way more power than my speakers can handle now, they're 3" full rangers. Hahaha.
Chain goes like this: ODAC --> Bottlehead Smash with Smash-Up --> Bottlehead S.E.X. 2.1 with C4S --> F4 --> Blumenstein Mini Orcas, there's more clarity up high and more resolution in the bass. I've loaded the SEX with 22ohm 5watt resistors, and I'm on the 16ohm tap.
I ran the F4 with just the Smash at first and that was very good as well. The SEX filled in the sound much more though, can't put it into words.
With the amp being room temperature am I okay, or can I get better performance with it being warmer? (Should I crank the bias up?)
Room temperature dont sound right, @250mv it should be getting fairly warm, mine runs ~50c in a 4U chassis.
I never got around to trying the S.E.X. with mine, i use a 4P1L preamp (very similar to the smash) which has more than enough voltage output to drive my F4 and speakers. Sounds great too
I never got around to trying the S.E.X. with mine, i use a 4P1L preamp (very similar to the smash) which has more than enough voltage output to drive my F4 and speakers. Sounds great too
After a couple days of listening adding the S.E.X. to the chain has pros and cons. I can seemingly get louder without noticeable distortion with just using the Smash. The soundstage seems far more spacious this way too. When adding the S.E.X. the sound has more body to it, and the lower end response seems to be stronger... Some might say bloated. I have a really hard time deciding which setup I'm liking better.
Alas, the F4 is an amazing piece... I'll have this thing around for life. Thanks to Nelson, and to the community once again.
Alas, the F4 is an amazing piece... I'll have this thing around for life.
Thanks to Nelson, and to the community once again.