I did buy an old JBL Decade 12" sub in the late 90's - designed a large deep ported box for it which sounded great. That thing has pumped through summers, winters, through deep sine rap tunes, to techno, etc, and I finally sold it this weekend! It was NOT anywhere as expensive or "fancy" as the Type Rs, it was just 150 watts & 91db 1w/m.
I've done lots of live sound, but not with my own subs. Seeing that a lot of live systems are only using 99$ Eminence drivers, and a lot of car guys buying Type R's are pushing those things a lot, I'd think a Type R could go for a long time in a PA, providing it's pushing peaks past it's limit all the time.
In a TH like the PAL12 though - it seems you'd have MUCH better long-term cooling then in your average car ported/closed box too!
I've done lots of live sound, but not with my own subs. Seeing that a lot of live systems are only using 99$ Eminence drivers, and a lot of car guys buying Type R's are pushing those things a lot, I'd think a Type R could go for a long time in a PA, providing it's pushing peaks past it's limit all the time.
In a TH like the PAL12 though - it seems you'd have MUCH better long-term cooling then in your average car ported/closed box too!
Yes, HR. HR data on post 6. Plug in T&S and there ya go. Stick to the proven designs here and you should be happy with what you build. The lines are getting blurry with drivers being pro or car audio. There are a few guys that like the Alpines. I probably would stick to pro drivers if I was gigging but for the occasional show the Alpine will probably do the trick.
Hi Brian, why is that? I get the "Professional" use conjures a very different idea than "bassheads in a vehicle" use.
My main prob with car subs was always the low efficiency. As for the driver itself, provided a great enclosure, and design that allows it room to breathe, AND Not looking to push it to XMAX & top SPL constantly, I'd think it could work. Obviously for larger crowds I know I would NEED to be starting at 97+ db/watt, then running TH's to get a larger crowd moving...
My main prob with car subs was always the low efficiency. As for the driver itself, provided a great enclosure, and design that allows it room to breathe, AND Not looking to push it to XMAX & top SPL constantly, I'd think it could work. Obviously for larger crowds I know I would NEED to be starting at 97+ db/watt, then running TH's to get a larger crowd moving...
That's what works against it. That, and the high Mmd. Low efficiency also implies small boxes, and high Mmd implies limited passband. Try running a sim for a 12" Type R in a TH and you end up with a gnat-sized enclosure requirements into which it will be near impossible to fit the driver, and if you try to increase the size of the enclosure, the response will start having high-Q resonances that can audibly "colour" the response.
I just simmed the Lab12 & Type R in basic Ported boxes...surprise surprise, the Lab12 is indeed a bit louder! Not a huge amount though, and the R never gets anywhere close to it's xmax in a "moderate" box. I can see it doing ok with TH gain.... at least OK to get a rough idea of the PAL12 design. Anyway, I'm just going to start building, and if some cheap type R's are available, I might try them.
I might have to try Hornresp too I guess...
I might have to try Hornresp too I guess...
ok, I found the last LAB12 online in Canada apparently, so I'm breaking that in on a friend's car slot-ported box. Sounds great so far, even hitting pretty low on about a 2 cu ft ported box! Did anyone ever get the final weight of the LAB12? Any other final advice, aside from "read the entire thread through again" ?? heh heh...
The LAB 12 weighs 22 lbs., or 10 kg.
Cabinet weight is dependent on the type of plywood used.
The OP says 2 sheets of 5'x 5' Baltic Birch are required per cabinet, 18mm weighs about 64 pounds per sheet.
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JBL SRX 728S dual 18=166.5 lbs
2x64lbs B.B. ply=128 lbs
1x22 lb LAB12=22 lbs
Handles, wheels,wiring etc.= approximate weight of scrap wood
Total=150 lbs, about a 10% weight savings ...
Ha, yes I meant to double the sheet weight, oops!
I can't imagine it being that small of a difference with the dual 18 box I'm used to hauling around. It must be heavier than the JBL you mentioned.
Either way, bulky is bad for getting through Hotel kitchens to ballrooms, etc. So a PAL 12 will be much better to haul around.
Has anyone compared a PAL12 to the Bose F1 sub? F1 is dual 10's, but box is 60lbs! Must be a sonic compromise somewhere, though I haven't looked at their specs in great detail.
I can't imagine it being that small of a difference with the dual 18 box I'm used to hauling around. It must be heavier than the JBL you mentioned.
Either way, bulky is bad for getting through Hotel kitchens to ballrooms, etc. So a PAL 12 will be much better to haul around.
Has anyone compared a PAL12 to the Bose F1 sub? F1 is dual 10's, but box is 60lbs! Must be a sonic compromise somewhere, though I haven't looked at their specs in great detail.
Just bought wood today to make a pair of PAL12s as I finished another speaker project recently. I elected to move forward with the 12mm sides, as these will be my "small" subs. If I lose a dB or two from the sides being less stiff I can live with that.
Already have a pair of Lab12's slated for them that I received as a father's day gift!
Already have a pair of Lab12's slated for them that I received as a father's day gift!
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2x 10"s in a ported box vs a long-throw 12" in a tapped horn?
I know where I'd put my money. Hint - not Bose.
FWIW, if you want something of similar format to the F1, you could do worse than the 15"s I'm using.
Here's the short thread about them: Chris's "Teeny tiny PA 15" sub (Horn) - Final Version?
Chris
Sounds like fun! I wouldn't be surprised if you get equal output, as the internal walls would make for some pretty good bracing of the sides. Keep us posted!
I've got some flooring to put in for the wife, so it doesn't look like I'm getting my PAL12 started in a hurry. I'd do 2 now if I had the space!
Chris, I'll have to check that out! Glad to hear you wouldn't lean to the Bose.
They say 130DB from one box in the specs (louder than a PAL12!?) ... but I don't see much for measurement parameters, and wouldn't be surprised if Bose is enhancing the measurements / environment.
Could likely be max wattage at 120hz too...
I see you've got info on the industry spec wars - nice! going to keep reading.
They say 130DB from one box in the specs (louder than a PAL12!?) ... but I don't see much for measurement parameters, and wouldn't be surprised if Bose is enhancing the measurements / environment.
Could likely be max wattage at 120hz too...
I see you've got info on the industry spec wars - nice! going to keep reading.
No worries, enjoy.
FWIW, those 15"s on the recommended 2KW will do 136dB peaks.
... at 1.3kHz.
Heck, they'd probably stand 10KW+ for short bursts. 8KW would give 142dB, but don't try that below 100Hz or you might launch the cones across the room.
Hardly useful for a subwoofer, but hey, if the PA manufacturers want to play that game, I can too.
Chris
FWIW, those 15"s on the recommended 2KW will do 136dB peaks.
... at 1.3kHz.
Heck, they'd probably stand 10KW+ for short bursts. 8KW would give 142dB, but don't try that below 100Hz or you might launch the cones across the room.
Hardly useful for a subwoofer, but hey, if the PA manufacturers want to play that game, I can too.
Chris