Start of the upgrade:
- R: medium and tweeter changed
Postulate:
L: muffled midrange / tweeter less detailed, less body
R: [impression of more material, and more details].
Just like that, without turning up the volume, I have the impression of a more coherent speaker.
On the setup:
___________________________________________
Next upgrade: (depending on how it feels):
- woofer (not sure)
- crossover: to be seen(probably with askin help and knowledge here)
- R: medium and tweeter changed
Postulate:
- R is normal
- L (old one)
L: muffled midrange / tweeter less detailed, less body
R: [impression of more material, and more details].
Just like that, without turning up the volume, I have the impression of a more coherent speaker.
On the setup:
- the midrange fits without worry
- the tweeter is more accurate (I thought of planing the wood, but didn't) by positioning the 4 screws together, and going progressively, everything went in.
- for the speaker cover, it does not fit perfectly, due to the edge of one of the tweeters. Rather than turning the frame over, I will add emitter pads.
___________________________________________
Next upgrade: (depending on how it feels):
- woofer (not sure)
- crossover: to be seen(probably with askin help and knowledge here)
The new speakers (medium tweeter) are installed in the towers.
Already a few hours of listening with it, it has nothing to do anymore. The stereo scene, which was tenuous, is now, just present, as it should be. The audio message is there, with the details, there is no more this lack on the mediums, and the highs.
Thank you for the inspiration Jawen, and your research that brought to light, these speakers of excellent quality. [SB26ADC and 5FE120, woofer not done yet]
This listening has convinced me that we are heading in the right direction.
So, I need to update the woofers.
Then there will be an upgrade of the cross-over, with new capacitors.
Already a few hours of listening with it, it has nothing to do anymore. The stereo scene, which was tenuous, is now, just present, as it should be. The audio message is there, with the details, there is no more this lack on the mediums, and the highs.
Thank you for the inspiration Jawen, and your research that brought to light, these speakers of excellent quality. [SB26ADC and 5FE120, woofer not done yet]
This listening has convinced me that we are heading in the right direction.
So, I need to update the woofers.
Then there will be an upgrade of the cross-over, with new capacitors.
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Glad you were happy with the upgrade Moorclos, i also think it´s a "new" speaker to listen to now.
I have done some new mesaurements on the SB26ADC and 5FE120 modified Jamo D590 with orginal xover!
Will begain with mesaurements from 200 hz - 20.000 hz, and try to make some progress on the orginal xover.
As you can see (on the mesaurements pic´s) it´s quite okey from about 260 hz up to xover-point around 2.500 hz, but then falls and are -10 dB at 7.000 hz.
As you also can see is that my previous simulation in XSim was showing almost the same when putting orginal xover values in to it with SB26ADC and 5FE120.......A dipp around 6-7 K
I will begain re-build/modify orginal xover tweeter-circut tomorrow i hope, and come back with the results.
Best regards John
I have done some new mesaurements on the SB26ADC and 5FE120 modified Jamo D590 with orginal xover!
Will begain with mesaurements from 200 hz - 20.000 hz, and try to make some progress on the orginal xover.
As you can see (on the mesaurements pic´s) it´s quite okey from about 260 hz up to xover-point around 2.500 hz, but then falls and are -10 dB at 7.000 hz.
As you also can see is that my previous simulation in XSim was showing almost the same when putting orginal xover values in to it with SB26ADC and 5FE120.......A dipp around 6-7 K
I will begain re-build/modify orginal xover tweeter-circut tomorrow i hope, and come back with the results.
Best regards John
Attachments
Maby it can work also G00 is a real good fast woofer, but i went for Peerlees 830 667 sls because the 8,4 mm XMAX and max 180 watt....
Scan-Speak Discovery 22W/4534G00 has "only" 5,7 mm Xmax and 120 watt, suited for about 63 lit ported
8 ohm version is 22W/8534G00And looks like the W22 is more expensive also, almost dubble.
/John
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Hallo all i did some time first test in XSim with orginal xover, and have done some quite small changings to the orginal filter.
The easy done modify increases sensitivity on the tweeter by about 6,5dB at 7K, and also make the impedance much better!
If you want you can make this small re-build of the orginal filters xvoer point and tweeter curve/SPL for about 12 USD each speaker.
Il try with as small as possible changes on the orginal xover , so other´s easy can follow.
Maby i will find some other small changes for the orginal filter, but in that case i come back to you about it.
With my Peerlees 8 inch the xoverpoint with orginal Jamo xover is 120 hz (a little low), and have a impedance bump down to about 2 Ohm´s between 110-140 hz
I put only 2 more caps on the board and replace the cheep 10 uF electrolyt for a 18 uF Metallized Polyester Film Capacitors Jantzen Standard cap
So a total of 3 caps per side!
The orginal 10uF electrolyt made the xoverpoint at 3.100 hz, and the "new" 18uF cap takes it down to 2.500 hz (as it should be in my mind)
You can use any MKT / metallized Polyester cap you want)...It`s around 4 USD each
I post you guy`s photos so you easy can feel comfortable with the modify, and also photos on XSIm SPL and impedance after changes and text of what to do on the filter.
And also a pic on latest mesaurement compared to original xover, Green curve after modify.
Belemakare:
Why you have to have a 4 ohm woofer?
In my mind you have a greater change to get better impedance with a 8 Ohm woofer.
Ask questions if you have any!
Best regards John
The easy done modify increases sensitivity on the tweeter by about 6,5dB at 7K, and also make the impedance much better!
If you want you can make this small re-build of the orginal filters xvoer point and tweeter curve/SPL for about 12 USD each speaker.
Il try with as small as possible changes on the orginal xover , so other´s easy can follow.
Maby i will find some other small changes for the orginal filter, but in that case i come back to you about it.
With my Peerlees 8 inch the xoverpoint with orginal Jamo xover is 120 hz (a little low), and have a impedance bump down to about 2 Ohm´s between 110-140 hz
I put only 2 more caps on the board and replace the cheep 10 uF electrolyt for a 18 uF Metallized Polyester Film Capacitors Jantzen Standard cap
So a total of 3 caps per side!
The orginal 10uF electrolyt made the xoverpoint at 3.100 hz, and the "new" 18uF cap takes it down to 2.500 hz (as it should be in my mind)
You can use any MKT / metallized Polyester cap you want)...It`s around 4 USD each
I post you guy`s photos so you easy can feel comfortable with the modify, and also photos on XSIm SPL and impedance after changes and text of what to do on the filter.
And also a pic on latest mesaurement compared to original xover, Green curve after modify.
Belemakare:
Why you have to have a 4 ohm woofer?
In my mind you have a greater change to get better impedance with a 8 Ohm woofer.
Ask questions if you have any!
Best regards John
Attachments
Hallo there raymondj, hope all is fine with you 
Yea trying to do the most simplest modify on orginal xover, so this project get´s maxium of "value for money" and become a tweak everyone can afford.
Until now i have only made mesaurement from 200-20.000 hz to focus on the mid/twe ( as you recomend before 👍), and take the woofer mesaurement later and use my ears alot.
Now when i did a few mesaurement sweeps from 15 hz and up, my Onkyo 747 goes into "protect-mode".....probably due to the impedance dip at 110-140 Hz.
Have spend some time in XSim, but have a hard time getting the impedance up from about 1,9 ohm to about 3 i as i will need.
Can you please help me out here raymondj, i feel a little "stuck"?
Best regards John
Yea trying to do the most simplest modify on orginal xover, so this project get´s maxium of "value for money" and become a tweak everyone can afford.
Until now i have only made mesaurement from 200-20.000 hz to focus on the mid/twe ( as you recomend before 👍), and take the woofer mesaurement later and use my ears alot
.Now when i did a few mesaurement sweeps from 15 hz and up, my Onkyo 747 goes into "protect-mode".....probably due to the impedance dip at 110-140 Hz.
Have spend some time in XSim, but have a hard time getting the impedance up from about 1,9 ohm to about 3 i as i will need.
Can you please help me out here raymondj, i feel a little "stuck"?
Best regards John
I have spent some time looking at this for you.
Trying to use the original crossover components/values and avoid a low impedance seems impossible. I havent hit on anything that keeps what you achieved in terms of the Xsim modelled response..
Throwing C4 and L4 away does lessen the component count and leaves just 0.5mH and 18-20uF across the mid for a nice response from both faitals.
But the Big but is it doesn't do anything significant for the low impedance. I would love to know what is the impedance of the original Jamo mid drivers??
I haven't currently got a simple solution at hand.
Obviously when i spot something i will post
Trying to use the original crossover components/values and avoid a low impedance seems impossible. I havent hit on anything that keeps what you achieved in terms of the Xsim modelled response..
Throwing C4 and L4 away does lessen the component count and leaves just 0.5mH and 18-20uF across the mid for a nice response from both faitals.
But the Big but is it doesn't do anything significant for the low impedance. I would love to know what is the impedance of the original Jamo mid drivers??
I haven't currently got a simple solution at hand.
Obviously when i spot something i will post
Yea raymandj, this was a tricky one!.....Real hard to make the original xover from the Jamo function "easy" with the Peerlees woffer and impedance without change of more components..
raymondj i have no informations about the original mid drivers in the Jamo speaker, or the woofer or tweeter!
Have spend a lot of hour´s trying lots of diffenrent values on different components, and have come to a point thats quite good but not easily done for people not accustomed to manufacturing own xover´s.
This pic is mesaurement from today from 1 M one speaker with only the 3 caps shifted, with 1/3 smoothing...Going to be good with both speakers involved from listentingpoint
Best regards John
raymondj i have no informations about the original mid drivers in the Jamo speaker, or the woofer or tweeter!
Have spend a lot of hour´s trying lots of diffenrent values on different components, and have come to a point thats quite good but not easily done for people not accustomed to manufacturing own xover´s.
This pic is mesaurement from today from 1 M one speaker with only the 3 caps shifted, with 1/3 smoothing...Going to be good with both speakers involved from listentingpoint
Best regards John
Attachments
Hi Jawen,
Good progress there, as you managed to get a sweep using your amp without it going into protection mode. I guess that was a big relief.
Depending on further progress one possible solution to yesterdays problems of low impedance could be to take the feed for the bass driver from the output of the Mid crossover, that looks like an interesting possibility if needed.
Good progress there, as you managed to get a sweep using your amp without it going into protection mode. I guess that was a big relief.
Depending on further progress one possible solution to yesterdays problems of low impedance could be to take the feed for the bass driver from the output of the Mid crossover, that looks like an interesting possibility if needed.
Thiele Small paramaters for some JAMO
?? Jamo 20435
*Power handling: 40 watts RMS/80 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Le: 0.87 mH *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.37 ohms *Frequency response: 40-5,000 Hz *Fs: 70 Hz *SPL: 87 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.20 cu. ft. *Qms: 3.03 *Qes: 0.57 *Qts: 0.48 *Xmax: 3 mm *Dimensions: A: 5-3/4", B: 4-5//8", C: 2-5/8".
Medium D590 Jamo 20436 8ohms
Medium Jamo 20255 (707A et 707I)
Specifications: *Power handling: 30 watts RMS/60 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Le: 0.36 mH *Impedance: 8 ohms *Re: 6.03 ohms *Frequency response: 40-5,000 Hz *Fs: 70 Hz *SPL: 86 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.21 cu. ft. *Qms: 3.83 *Qes: 0.71 *Qts: 0.60 *Xmax: 2 mm *Dimensions: A: 5-11/16", B: 4-5//8", C: 2-3/8".
_______________________________________________________________
Tweeter (707i et A) 38822 4ohms
Woofer for 7.7 (20316) T&S 20316
?? Jamo 20435
*Power handling: 40 watts RMS/80 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Le: 0.87 mH *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.37 ohms *Frequency response: 40-5,000 Hz *Fs: 70 Hz *SPL: 87 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.20 cu. ft. *Qms: 3.03 *Qes: 0.57 *Qts: 0.48 *Xmax: 3 mm *Dimensions: A: 5-3/4", B: 4-5//8", C: 2-5/8".
Medium D590 Jamo 20436 8ohms
Medium Jamo 20255 (707A et 707I)
Specifications: *Power handling: 30 watts RMS/60 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Le: 0.36 mH *Impedance: 8 ohms *Re: 6.03 ohms *Frequency response: 40-5,000 Hz *Fs: 70 Hz *SPL: 86 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.21 cu. ft. *Qms: 3.83 *Qes: 0.71 *Qts: 0.60 *Xmax: 2 mm *Dimensions: A: 5-11/16", B: 4-5//8", C: 2-3/8".
_______________________________________________________________
Tweeter (707i et A) 38822 4ohms
Woofer for 7.7 (20316) T&S 20316
Attachments
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Moorclos,
Thanks for posting the info you have dug out.
It does seem that they should have been 8 ohms on the mids.
The bass driver is listed as having a 5.8 ohm Re with a 4 layer voice coil and 3.7mH inductance, quite possibly that could have been a useful factor for the original designers.
It highlights it is not always easy to substitute drivers, the devil is in the details.
With that said Jawen is going forward and with a few more iterations it should sing very nicely. The mid tweeter combo always looks very promising. The bass driver is almost acting like a weak sub woofer in my mind, with room gain doing the rest dependent on good positioning.
Thanks for posting the info you have dug out.
It does seem that they should have been 8 ohms on the mids.
The bass driver is listed as having a 5.8 ohm Re with a 4 layer voice coil and 3.7mH inductance, quite possibly that could have been a useful factor for the original designers.
It highlights it is not always easy to substitute drivers, the devil is in the details.
With that said Jawen is going forward and with a few more iterations it should sing very nicely. The mid tweeter combo always looks very promising. The bass driver is almost acting like a weak sub woofer in my mind, with room gain doing the rest dependent on good positioning.
raymondj
Do you mean skipp the woofers xoverparts entirely and connect woofers possetive at midrange possetive insted ?
Moorclos & raymondj:
My Jamo D590 orginal woofer say´s 24416, and midrange 20436/ 8 ohm and 38820 tweeter, no information accept 8 ohm at the midrange.
An can´t even find woofer 24416 when i Google, so don´t know anything about orginal drivers.
I have alots of problems with mesaurement connecting UMIK-1,to my computer and the computer to the receiver, microfone cable is not long and my "stupid" Samsung tv with smartbox have to link computer-receiver-tv. ( very time consuming)
And suddenly it starts to work, although I did not make any new connection, just unplugged & plugged in one of the cable again.
Also no levelcontrols working in REW, so have to turn up the receiver manually, it´s so strange because everything was perfect hole november 2021 when i begain with this mesaurement?
Have to gone down on my knees yesterday everytime i try some changes/soldering on the original Jamo xover still connected to the speaker, so today i have mole pain in my injure knee...
Think i will need some beer´s today to manage the pain and continue the modification..hahaha
Later guy´s
Best regards John
Do you mean skipp the woofers xoverparts entirely and connect woofers possetive at midrange possetive insted ?
Moorclos & raymondj:
My Jamo D590 orginal woofer say´s 24416, and midrange 20436/ 8 ohm and 38820 tweeter, no information accept 8 ohm at the midrange.
An can´t even find woofer 24416 when i Google, so don´t know anything about orginal drivers.
I have alots of problems with mesaurement connecting UMIK-1,to my computer and the computer to the receiver, microfone cable is not long and my "stupid" Samsung tv with smartbox have to link computer-receiver-tv. ( very time consuming)
And suddenly it starts to work, although I did not make any new connection, just unplugged & plugged in one of the cable again
.Also no levelcontrols working in REW, so have to turn up the receiver manually, it´s so strange because everything was perfect hole november 2021 when i begain with this mesaurement?
Have to gone down on my knees yesterday everytime i try some changes/soldering on the original Jamo xover still connected to the speaker, so today i have mole pain in my injure knee...
Think i will need some beer´s today to manage the pain and continue the modification..hahaha
Later guy´s
Best regards John
tempted on the beer front myself.
Do you have a recommendation that may not be well known here?.
Windows drivers and windows updates have messed up my audio stuff completely several times over the years. Even having to re install and get new licences issued. They are useful but have issues.
Hope the knee recovers after some rest and a beer.
Do you have a recommendation that may not be well known here?.
Windows drivers and windows updates have messed up my audio stuff completely several times over the years. Even having to re install and get new licences issued. They are useful but have issues.
Hope the knee recovers after some rest and a beer.
Sorry, didnt think to answer the question.
Take the existin woofer crossover and disconnect it from the loudspeaker terminals.
Now take these two wires and connect them to the output of the midwoofer crossover.
It was an idea that dawned on me this morning. it doesnt help much but maybe just enough.
If your up for a redesign based on your latest FRD and ZMA files we could have a look at that as a last resort.
You are making progress so, it could be only a few iterations away.
Take the existin woofer crossover and disconnect it from the loudspeaker terminals.
Now take these two wires and connect them to the output of the midwoofer crossover.
It was an idea that dawned on me this morning. it doesnt help much but maybe just enough.
If your up for a redesign based on your latest FRD and ZMA files we could have a look at that as a last resort.
You are making progress so, it could be only a few iterations away.
I drink mostly quite light beer called Norrlands Guld 50cl 5,3 % alcohol a Swedish brand i think.
Norrland is high up in Sweden closer to the polar circle and you can often see Northern Lights in the sky there.
So strange with XSim and real mesaurements on this project now while tweaking orginal xover!
When i in XSim change a value that XSim say´s change -2 dB in region 2000 hz, but mesaurements shows a increase about 3-4 dB only in 3-400 hz region
Done 4-5 changes now but what XSim shows in simulations is NEVER the same as the real mesaurements.
I want to boost from 2500- 10.000 hz about 2-2,5 dB, but feel lost on this XSIm simulation.
Feel that the SPL curve from SB26ADC and 5FE120 on this orginalxover-type dosen´t suit XSim simulations?
Cheeeeeeeeeers 🥳/ John
Norrland is high up in Sweden closer to the polar circle and you can often see Northern Lights in the sky there.
So strange with XSim and real mesaurements on this project now while tweaking orginal xover!
When i in XSim change a value that XSim say´s change -2 dB in region 2000 hz, but mesaurements shows a increase about 3-4 dB only in 3-400 hz region
Done 4-5 changes now but what XSim shows in simulations is NEVER the same as the real mesaurements.
I want to boost from 2500- 10.000 hz about 2-2,5 dB, but feel lost on this XSIm simulation.
Feel that the SPL curve from SB26ADC and 5FE120 on this orginalxover-type dosen´t suit XSim simulations?
Cheeeeeeeeeers 🥳/ John
