Yes, that looks like the tweeter may need to have polarity inverted. If existing schematic could be drawn from the crossover PCB, that might confirm.
God evening rajmondj, AllenB and motokok and thank you for all input.
motokok
Yes i have done my reseach and im a person that can´t do enything half-hearted...Not even cleaning hahaha
And how do you guestimate 3-6db baffle-step losses in the lower midrange 11600/26 ~ 446hz, and what stands value 11200/26 for?
And i know coils should be mounted 90° (for mahnetfeild) and a little apart from eachother.
I will read allenb's sticky thread !
AllenB:
Yes i will try and test the speakers using the original woofer crossover, but the measurement from the review look´s "non exciting"
And i feel the orignal-sound from the D590 it´s like a thin cloesed door between the speaker and my ears, no micro details, no good resolution. (neither from the midrange register nor the tweeter)
Just okey to listen to, but my little Marshall bluetooth speaker in the kitchen have much more resolution ( just to compare)
raymondj:
Sorry that you hade a bad workday, don´t know what you work with but don´t take any **** from anybody causeless
Yes the orginal Jamo D590 sounds like the mesaurements curve, no details/resolution and the big dipp from 1,5K up to 8K is probably what I hear (the closed thin door between speaker and my ears)
Think it´s 50% the result of the simple crossover and 50% cheap drivers.
----------------
Will get the Peerlees 830667 and 5FE120-8 driver on Thursday, and all the rest probably Tuesday/Wednesday next week
I appreciate your posts you friendly hifi people
Regards John
motokok
Yes i have done my reseach and im a person that can´t do enything half-hearted...Not even cleaning hahaha
And how do you guestimate 3-6db baffle-step losses in the lower midrange 11600/26 ~ 446hz, and what stands value 11200/26 for?
And i know coils should be mounted 90° (for mahnetfeild) and a little apart from eachother.
I will read allenb's sticky thread !
AllenB:
Yes i will try and test the speakers using the original woofer crossover, but the measurement from the review look´s "non exciting"
And i feel the orignal-sound from the D590 it´s like a thin cloesed door between the speaker and my ears, no micro details, no good resolution. (neither from the midrange register nor the tweeter)
Just okey to listen to, but my little Marshall bluetooth speaker in the kitchen have much more resolution ( just to compare)
raymondj:
Sorry that you hade a bad workday, don´t know what you work with but don´t take any **** from anybody causeless
Yes the orginal Jamo D590 sounds like the mesaurements curve, no details/resolution and the big dipp from 1,5K up to 8K is probably what I hear (the closed thin door between speaker and my ears)
Think it´s 50% the result of the simple crossover and 50% cheap drivers.
----------------
Will get the Peerlees 830667 and 5FE120-8 driver on Thursday, and all the rest probably Tuesday/Wednesday next week
I appreciate your posts you friendly hifi people
Regards John
Basically, the phenomenon is diffraction loss - when lower frequencies change from radiating into half-space (2Pi) to free-space (4Pi), resulting in a loss of up to -6db cause the wavelengths start wrapping around the baffle and cabinet instead of forward. Rough calculation of when this loss starts is F = c/w and assumed an F6 from this loss will be in the bass area, and F3 in the midrange.
c = speed of sound in meters/inches/cm, w = baffle width -- width of the Jamo is 26cm, I believe.
Baffle Diffraction Step
c = speed of sound in meters/inches/cm, w = baffle width -- width of the Jamo is 26cm, I believe.
Baffle Diffraction Step
Last edited:
motokok:
Jamo D590 baffle is only 16 cm and speed of sound is 340 meter/sec
And if i calculate 340/16 its 21,25
Does it mean 2125 hz ?
I will read the link you send!
Buy the way i find some information on the orignal 8 inch woofer Jamo 203 16, it has Fs 48 Hz SPL 87 dB Xmax 3 mm and 40 watt.
Regards John
Jamo D590 baffle is only 16 cm and speed of sound is 340 meter/sec
And if i calculate 340/16 its 21,25
Does it mean 2125 hz ?
I will read the link you send!
Buy the way i find some information on the orignal 8 inch woofer Jamo 203 16, it has Fs 48 Hz SPL 87 dB Xmax 3 mm and 40 watt.
Regards John
Last edited:
Right. I was figuring for the woofer in the base, where the narrowest dimension will be the width per Jamo.com | D 590 = 261mm
With m/s, f = 343 / 0.261 = 1,314hz (where loss begins and gets worse with lower frequencies, with F6 being the worst)
With in/s, f = 13,503.94 / 10.2756
Some proxy the f3 with 11,600 / w in cm; assuming some rate of loss by octave.
This thread discusses the issue and differences in calcuation
I think some solutions are:
-set the woofer-mid XO frequency in that F3 region so there is less of a disruptive peak at the end of the calculated F
-use "BSC compenstion circuit"
-increase value of bass coil in low-pass circuit to bump up the bass in the loss region by 3db or so
-use smaller bass coil + LCR circuit
-ignore it
Would be ideal if you could simply measure the response in the room and see what's happening. Maybe others have rational ways to deal with it without a mic.
You are right, though, the phenomenon will also be happening to the midrange drivers on the front of the speaker.
With m/s, f = 343 / 0.261 = 1,314hz (where loss begins and gets worse with lower frequencies, with F6 being the worst)
With in/s, f = 13,503.94 / 10.2756
Some proxy the f3 with 11,600 / w in cm; assuming some rate of loss by octave.
This thread discusses the issue and differences in calcuation
I think some solutions are:
-set the woofer-mid XO frequency in that F3 region so there is less of a disruptive peak at the end of the calculated F
-use "BSC compenstion circuit"
-increase value of bass coil in low-pass circuit to bump up the bass in the loss region by 3db or so
-use smaller bass coil + LCR circuit
-ignore it
Would be ideal if you could simply measure the response in the room and see what's happening. Maybe others have rational ways to deal with it without a mic.
You are right, though, the phenomenon will also be happening to the midrange drivers on the front of the speaker.
Last edited:
Thank you motokok
Understand now that you mean the woofer "baffle width", never had a downfiring wooofer before so i automatic was thinking on the front naffle. .
(Had to read what F3 means), but I'm aiming for F3 at 49 hz and a F6 at 42hz
woofer-mid XO frequency is at 150hz, and i have to read about "BSC compenstion circuit" and LCR circuit for smaller coil.
Orderd a UMIK-1 and i arrives on Tuesday Wednesday!
My coil for the woofer is already 10mH hahaha, so going up from that make me sell my car (a joke)
Real hard to learn this things and im to old to get more then a little of it all
Regards John
Understand now that you mean the woofer "baffle width", never had a downfiring wooofer before so i automatic was thinking on the front naffle. .
(Had to read what F3 means), but I'm aiming for F3 at 49 hz and a F6 at 42hz
woofer-mid XO frequency is at 150hz, and i have to read about "BSC compenstion circuit" and LCR circuit for smaller coil.
Orderd a UMIK-1 and i arrives on Tuesday Wednesday!
My coil for the woofer is already 10mH hahaha, so going up from that make me sell my car (a joke)
Real hard to learn this things and im to old to get more then a little of it all
Regards John
Last edited:
Not enough information... If I were in this position I'd begin by keeping the woofers, measure them from all angles and use this to 1) cross them and 2) position them in, and treat the room. Then equalise globally... This puts it on the next level and changes the options.
Have now read the link about Baffle Diffraction Step, and thank you for the link, it was understandable. ( often tech text is written to complicated for "ordenary" people like me)
And i will follow you´r advice AllenB, but one question pops up in my head.
Can you measure the response in the room below 200hz ?
Often read that all measurement don´t show lower frequency correct, so i mine case how and which frequencies should I focus on.
And about the UMIK-1 microfone
Do i have to have some specialprograms or soundcards or something to use it correctly? ( now my friend use voltfeeding in his through some homemade AC-adapter and some program)
I have a big thick carpet on the floor in front of speakers, and textile couch ( 1 3-sits and 2 armchairs)
And ceiling height obove the speaker is around 3,7 meters and increase to the left up to 5,8 meter.
And have find some more pic´s from the Jamo D590 speaker drivers and inside cabinette. ( feel free to comment )
Regards John
And i will follow you´r advice AllenB, but one question pops up in my head.
Can you measure the response in the room below 200hz ?
Often read that all measurement don´t show lower frequency correct, so i mine case how and which frequencies should I focus on.
And about the UMIK-1 microfone
Do i have to have some specialprograms or soundcards or something to use it correctly? ( now my friend use voltfeeding in his through some homemade AC-adapter and some program)
I have a big thick carpet on the floor in front of speakers, and textile couch ( 1 3-sits and 2 armchairs)
And ceiling height obove the speaker is around 3,7 meters and increase to the left up to 5,8 meter.
And have find some more pic´s from the Jamo D590 speaker drivers and inside cabinette. ( feel free to comment )
Regards John
Attachments
Last edited:
Totaly agree with you motokok!
Jamo drivers look unbelievably cheap in every way, and that was why i begain the "investigation" in the first place a few day´s after i bought them used.
They sounded "muffled" with no microdetails/resolution at all, but i loved the design and the rigid but neat cabinete
Baskets, magnet´s, plastic, the less then average data i find on them....everything.
So i´m thinking im going to go from an budjet "average" sound, to almost hi end...mi end anyway and i look forward to begain with them.
If there is room for it, i maby manufactre a routed milled down plate to mount the new woofer in (over the old wooferhole), but must measure the distance!
Because it will bee good to be able to "go back" and take all parts out if i sell the speaker in the future, because no one is willing to pay for parts in the new xover and the new drivers and i can use them again in the future.
Think total cost going to be about 815 USD about 700 Euro
Regrads John
Jamo drivers look unbelievably cheap in every way, and that was why i begain the "investigation" in the first place a few day´s after i bought them used.
They sounded "muffled" with no microdetails/resolution at all, but i loved the design and the rigid but neat cabinete
Baskets, magnet´s, plastic, the less then average data i find on them....everything.
So i´m thinking im going to go from an budjet "average" sound, to almost hi end...mi end anyway and i look forward to begain with them.
If there is room for it, i maby manufactre a routed milled down plate to mount the new woofer in (over the old wooferhole), but must measure the distance!
Because it will bee good to be able to "go back" and take all parts out if i sell the speaker in the future, because no one is willing to pay for parts in the new xover and the new drivers and i can use them again in the future.
Think total cost going to be about 815 USD about 700 Euro
Regrads John
Last edited:
Don't expect to measure bass in a room unless you get right up close to the cone, and you can't do that for other frequencies. When crossing, just expect the bass to be flat where it's supposed to be and when you go to use the speaker and it isn't flat, blame the room and make your adjustments to placement.
The UMIK is a USB mic, so it wasn't designed with crossover work in mind.
The UMIK is a USB mic, so it wasn't designed with crossover work in mind.
The first of the 2 delivery arrived today, and of course they have send the wrong woofers .
They have send me 2 x the SDS 830657 6.46 x 7.17 inch 60watt woofer
(Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY ) instead of the 8,39 inch SLS-830667.
Order some filling and a new iron also, so the rest of the order was right.
So can´t begain with the woofer modification today as a haved hope, but begain with the 5 inch Faithal Pro mid´s instead.
The 5FE120 look´s well built and they also send a sealing in the driver-box.
The original midrange cabinette has Polyuretan damping material stapled at the sides, but feel that thin stone wool and ordenary polyester wool will do a better jobb or what do you think guy´s ?
Regards John
.They have send me 2 x the SDS 830657 6.46 x 7.17 inch 60watt woofer
(Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY ) instead of the 8,39 inch SLS-830667.
Order some filling and a new iron also, so the rest of the order was right.
So can´t begain with the woofer modification today as a haved hope, but begain with the 5 inch Faithal Pro mid´s instead.
The 5FE120 look´s well built and they also send a sealing in the driver-box.
The original midrange cabinette has Polyuretan damping material stapled at the sides, but feel that thin stone wool and ordenary polyester wool will do a better jobb or what do you think guy´s ?
Regards John
Attachments
The 5FE120-8 ohm was a 100% perfect fit without doing nothing with the cabinette, exactly the same width and screwholes
And think the tweeter also going to be 100% witout modifications.
Regards John
And think the tweeter also going to be 100% witout modifications.
Regards John
Attachments
a little eager, and i had an old pair of Scan Speak 93000 lying in my basement, so i had to try how they fit between the Faithal´s.
And Bingo, perfekt!
Look´s like real crap orginaldriver in the Jamo d590, some asian copy of SS and all plastic basket/front in the midrange with quite small magnets.
Listen for 5 minutes now and going from originalspeaker to up-graded one, and suddenly i can hear the singers Ssss and little more details/resolution, also little more midbass punch.
Pic´s at orginal vs Faithal/Scanspeak
Regards John
And Bingo
, perfekt!Look´s like real crap orginaldriver in the Jamo d590, some asian copy of SS and all plastic basket/front in the midrange with quite small magnets.
Listen for 5 minutes now and going from originalspeaker to up-graded one, and suddenly i can hear the singers Ssss and little more details/resolution, also little more midbass punch.
Pic´s at orginal vs Faithal/Scanspeak
Regards John
Attachments
Yea rajmondj i was realy lucky, because I thought I would have to carve a little in the wood...at least a mm or 2.
Have listen to it for a few hours now ( left one original and right one upgraded), and the sound have "open up" a little more in the upgraded one.
This is going to be real a nice result, and if i should give them a rate from 1-100 the original is about 30 points and the upgraded 55 points.
Think i can come up to about 75 points with woofer and new xover.
Yes i going to analyse the original xover, (if its possible) but its little more work because i have to unscrew the hole bottomplate and take the woofer out.
The xover is mounted inside the woofers cabinette.
Wish I had the microphone here now, so I could measure both original & upgraded one, but im a little eager and can´t wait until next week
the xover and woofer will be remowed tomorrow
Regards John
Have listen to it for a few hours now ( left one original and right one upgraded), and the sound have "open up" a little more in the upgraded one.
This is going to be real a nice result, and if i should give them a rate from 1-100 the original is about 30 points and the upgraded 55 points.
Think i can come up to about 75 points with woofer and new xover.
Yes i going to analyse the original xover, (if its possible) but its little more work because i have to unscrew the hole bottomplate and take the woofer out.
The xover is mounted inside the woofers cabinette.
Wish I had the microphone here now, so I could measure both original & upgraded one, but im a little eager and can´t wait until next week
the xover and woofer will be remowed tomorrow
Regards John
The way drivers are arranged in 3d space has an impact on their phase relationship. Are you doing anything to incorporate that effect into what you are doing here?
I downloaded the first Xsim package you posted, and didn't see any driver offset settings. And you mentioned that you traced the manufacturer FR for the drivers, so spatial interactions wouldn't be included there.
If you do some acoustic measurements yourself you could capture those relationships that way. Note that taking good measurements is a whole topic all by itself!
I downloaded the first Xsim package you posted, and didn't see any driver offset settings. And you mentioned that you traced the manufacturer FR for the drivers, so spatial interactions wouldn't be included there.
If you do some acoustic measurements yourself you could capture those relationships that way. Note that taking good measurements is a whole topic all by itself!
Motokok: Yea the 93000 is real good, but in this originalfilter it only shows 6-70% of it´s potential...The orginal xover had "more to wish"
Welcome AdamThorne
No i dont now about phase relationship and driver offset settings, im a newbie at all this and just trying hard to get forward and listen to all of you pro advice and opinions on the way.
Have remowed the woofer and xover now and mesaures the coil´s in the original xover to get their values.
Also have try to putt it all into XSim so you can comment.
Had open the cabinette and take the xover and "filling" away, and try to measures the volyme...About 48,5 liter for the woofer and the tweeter/midrange work together in about 10-11 liter.
Filling in cabinette was only Polyuretan damping material stapled at the sides, so here a maby can do some improvments with thin stone wool and ordenary polyester wool.... will that do a better jobb or what do you think guy´s ?
Orginal woofer has a tiny magnet and weight less then orginal midrange
Regards John
Welcome AdamThorne
No i dont now about phase relationship and driver offset settings, im a newbie at all this and just trying hard to get forward and listen to all of you pro advice and opinions on the way.
Have remowed the woofer and xover now and mesaures the coil´s in the original xover to get their values.
Also have try to putt it all into XSim so you can comment.
Had open the cabinette and take the xover and "filling" away, and try to measures the volyme...About 48,5 liter for the woofer and the tweeter/midrange work together in about 10-11 liter.
Filling in cabinette was only Polyuretan damping material stapled at the sides, so here a maby can do some improvments with thin stone wool and ordenary polyester wool.... will that do a better jobb or what do you think guy´s ?
Orginal woofer has a tiny magnet and weight less then orginal midrange
Regards John
