Don't know if important ! thz MW16P is a midrange acording SB A. >= 300 hz. Not a woofer as the former 16.
300 hz XO: usefull for most room (Dickason) with the average rear wall/ speaker distance ?
Or perhaps you make your listened test at low average spl level (70/75 db average ?)
I like very uch the story board of your development: I learn a lot with it. Thanks for that🙂
What if the bass with a circa 150 hz cut-off and the SB16 is doing the extra enderavor towards 150 hz (assymetric XO : main bump made by the bass till 150/180 hz, snap area, then gently followed by the 16MP a little higher - just guessing, but no idea, just a feeling without real life proof- ?
300 hz XO: usefull for most room (Dickason) with the average rear wall/ speaker distance ?
Or perhaps you make your listened test at low average spl level (70/75 db average ?)
I like very uch the story board of your development: I learn a lot with it. Thanks for that🙂
What if the bass with a circa 150 hz cut-off and the SB16 is doing the extra enderavor towards 150 hz (assymetric XO : main bump made by the bass till 150/180 hz, snap area, then gently followed by the 16MP a little higher - just guessing, but no idea, just a feeling without real life proof- ?
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I have the MR16P-4 also; it is a mid range. The MW16P-4 is a mid-bass. BUT; Troels has a design where he uses this with the MW19 (Satori 7 1/2 mid-bass) as well for better bass. I need to get all my latest inductors first. Once I try the 5.6 mH on the SB29; I can then adjust the capacitors on the MW16. If I can get the 2nd order high pass high enough to reduce IM and excursion and still have a good blend with the SB29; then I will have meet my short term goals. If not; then one option would be to keep the SB29 but put a MW19 in place of the MW16. Of course; I might still want the NE265 best overall to replace both the SB29 and MW16. THEN; I would go back to the MR16 and P7PHD combination but at perhaps 400 to 600 Hz instead of 200 to 400 Hz.
I have been given some hints and ideas from others here as to free modeling and sims box software so now I need to determine if the max SPL of the NE265 vented is good enough vs the SB29 closed. My latest discoveries and concerns have to do with the power handling of deep bass. The SB29 can take the full output of the Crown at maximum gain when being feed directly from the CD player; I'm thinking the NE265 in a vented box MAY NOT be able to do that WITHOUT an electronic/active filter high pass set to 40 Hz or so??? This is where the model/sims will help if they can accurately predict what the NE265 will do in 33 liters vented.
Like I said; harder and harder.
I have been given some hints and ideas from others here as to free modeling and sims box software so now I need to determine if the max SPL of the NE265 vented is good enough vs the SB29 closed. My latest discoveries and concerns have to do with the power handling of deep bass. The SB29 can take the full output of the Crown at maximum gain when being feed directly from the CD player; I'm thinking the NE265 in a vented box MAY NOT be able to do that WITHOUT an electronic/active filter high pass set to 40 Hz or so??? This is where the model/sims will help if they can accurately predict what the NE265 will do in 33 liters vented.
Like I said; harder and harder.
http://sbacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/7½in-SATORI-MW19PNW-4.pdf
white cone MW19 4 Ohm
http://sbacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/7½in-SATORI-MW19P-4.pdf
regular color cone
As with the MW16 series; there are SOME slight differences in the TSP's comparing the white cone to the "gray" cone. I wonder WHY exactly???
white cone MW19 4 Ohm
http://sbacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/7½in-SATORI-MW19P-4.pdf
regular color cone
As with the MW16 series; there are SOME slight differences in the TSP's comparing the white cone to the "gray" cone. I wonder WHY exactly???
I just found AJ Designer (box model/sim); VERY simple and easy. According to this SIMPLE software; the SB29 in 33 liters closed has a higher excursion limit AND a higher thermal limit BOTH as compared to the NE265W-4 in 33 liters vented. Since I don't have an electronic/active high pass filter; the SB29 should be less distorted with the bass at 40 Hz. I'm thinking now (NOT totally for sure yet) that maybe I should keep the SB29. If I can get the MW16 2nd order HP X/O sorted out; I'll be happy short term. If not; the next logical step might be as I said earlier to replace the MW16 with the MW19. This is sort of a toss-up....decisions, decisions...
Closed Box Simulator
Another new discovery...rough estimate; actual box dimensions not used here; just playing what IF...
Another new discovery...rough estimate; actual box dimensions not used here; just playing what IF...
If I wanted to know this I'd calculate the differing parameters based on the different cone masses, as I suspect this is the key.
I just had a confirmation from an independent source that the NE265W-4 has a X max of 18 mm p-p. The spec sheet shows 9 mm but doesn't specify if that is peak or peak to peak. 18 mm p-p IS very respectable indeed; higher than Seas or Scan Speak 10 inch woofers in this same price range (unless their spec sheets are ALSO misleading that is).
My new inductors should be here in a few days; then I will know for sure what my next options might be.
My new inductors should be here in a few days; then I will know for sure what my next options might be.
The spec sheets show peak excursion. Sometimes peak linear and peak mechanical. It's logical, don't you think?
Agree; they should spell it out specifically though to avoid confusion. With the SB 29; it is VERY specific. It says 22 mm LINEAR X p-p. Sometimes specs show mechanical and electrical X max both. Some spec sheets show p-p only. Some spec sheets show peak only.
One of my Senior Engineers jokingly called this "specsmanship". I used to also help write Mil Std instructions; you have to be very specific; leave nothing open to interpretation whatsoever. In other words; fool proof.
is the p-p of the drivers spec not a conventional : linear peak to peak number = 2x Xmax and not 1/2 givng the Xmech ?
well, the issue is not every OEM specs the X max the same way. p-p is obviously 2X peak. But, in the case of the Vifa/Peerless, it didn't specify p or p-p. SB clearly says p or p-p.
so it is said 18 mm ! No chance it is X-Max or X-mech for such non PA driver
So question is : 9 mm X-Max or X-mech ? 😕 ! I bet X-Max for a 16 mid-woof you're talking about weither SB or Vifa/Peerless (the Thymphany seems indeed known for a high cone excursion and a very good non linear distorion : less expensive plus ! Uh, catch it ! Howerver I undertand less about how you play with the Mark Audio Full range according the max spl it has and how you play with it in a half way config (above my head) with the lower unit that has a better X-max and greater spl limit. I think dynamic transcient often seen in Jazz & classic. Im' sure it has good sound as the ScanSpeak 10F/8424G00 I play with at the moment (with help). I trust with half way design like the 2.5 Spendor A7 (note the stand that make it not exactly a floor stander : that breath like a monitor underneath 😉 .
Well for the short monney people as I, the Vifa Peereless seems like a good bargain, while no free lunch in life...(i.e. go bigger Sd PA or good more expensive brand as ScanSpeak... well Thymphany seems to have the good DNA yet : blink eyes to tthe corundum as an illustration. but wel you have better here with the Fostex you like... but well I persist the Fostex 925 🙂
cheers.... ahaha, a long time I din't use Arta and Rew and I am lost as well, lol have to find agani a very good site with .wav swept tone files for you! Despite I have the cable, the phantom power , the calibrated mic & its expensive individual file blessed by a naked indian guru, etc ! What a hobby.... I need the forest ot hear birds, drink beer outside with the guru... oh no the tree...the Lynx.. lol !
looking forward you receive the Jantzen core coil, btw on the way to buy Crosscap for another speaker refurbishing... what have they all with the lock down ??? They love their loudspeakers again ???? We told us to do so !
Did you unwind your coil ? I.e. purchase bigger then adapt by unwinding the coil or the pirchase are exact enough (mH on demand?).
So question is : 9 mm X-Max or X-mech ? 😕 ! I bet X-Max for a 16 mid-woof you're talking about weither SB or Vifa/Peerless (the Thymphany seems indeed known for a high cone excursion and a very good non linear distorion : less expensive plus ! Uh, catch it ! Howerver I undertand less about how you play with the Mark Audio Full range according the max spl it has and how you play with it in a half way config (above my head) with the lower unit that has a better X-max and greater spl limit. I think dynamic transcient often seen in Jazz & classic. Im' sure it has good sound as the ScanSpeak 10F/8424G00 I play with at the moment (with help). I trust with half way design like the 2.5 Spendor A7 (note the stand that make it not exactly a floor stander : that breath like a monitor underneath 😉 .
Well for the short monney people as I, the Vifa Peereless seems like a good bargain, while no free lunch in life...(i.e. go bigger Sd PA or good more expensive brand as ScanSpeak... well Thymphany seems to have the good DNA yet : blink eyes to tthe corundum as an illustration. but wel you have better here with the Fostex you like... but well I persist the Fostex 925 🙂
cheers.... ahaha, a long time I din't use Arta and Rew and I am lost as well, lol have to find agani a very good site with .wav swept tone files for you! Despite I have the cable, the phantom power , the calibrated mic & its expensive individual file blessed by a naked indian guru, etc ! What a hobby.... I need the forest ot hear birds, drink beer outside with the guru... oh no the tree...the Lynx.. lol !
looking forward you receive the Jantzen core coil, btw on the way to buy Crosscap for another speaker refurbishing... what have they all with the lock down ??? They love their loudspeakers again ???? We told us to do so !
Did you unwind your coil ? I.e. purchase bigger then adapt by unwinding the coil or the pirchase are exact enough (mH on demand?).
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-Notice there is no lynx in India as far I know, or maybe in the rare primal forests they have yet.. But I have seen gurus and good beers there: lol I was pursuing young by such a guru because I shooted a picture of a bridge on the Ganges... So sort of extra life I'm pursue myself with music. Btw tablas are awsome to test loudspeaker and simply listen to it in a good Raga. I love their sense of rythm... great music, jazz proof smewhere. For me it's like the piano in the wild fhz range it is used 🙂
Sort of breakdown moment between to Xcover tweaking... sorry for the disgress.
Sort of breakdown moment between to Xcover tweaking... sorry for the disgress.
Well, I paid extra money for faster shipping and so far; none of my new X/O parts have arrived. I realize it is slower because of COVID, etc. I guess next time; I'll save money and not order priority or express! Diyiggy; I finally listened to the Misere' I could only find it on YouTube, Spotify, etc. No one seems to stock the LP or CD; not even some suppliers in Europe I sometimes use. I'm REALLY hoping some parts will show up today; looking forward to getting on with this!
So, are this particular -2001?-takes not so wonderfull ? What a voice, no ? I didn't hear one like that so often ! I think it's the best Misere of this guy never reccorded ! It takes from inside the bones to the hairs !
yes, it's the 2001. I would like it on CD or LP record. Presto Classical Music in England has a lot of FLAC downloads CD quality and even higher quality. But they didn't have THIS one exactly.
I will have a look how I can do from Europe.
If unfindable I will Dropbox it to you. But what I hae is a copy from an hifi budies meeting, so I have no insurance on how it wad printed on the cd I have !
Just listened an artist I like : first album from "Fink"; Distance & Time -2007- simple : an acoustical guitar, a voice, sometimes an other musician. I often use it to test male voice and acoustic guitar to have the good thickness while staying relaxed on the voice but having attacks on strings - ok it's not cellos or bass- but I like to test it on paper drivers.
Well the funny thing is I talk yu about that cause yesterday I fired some Arta measurments after Hensolo that nicely advised me in the sticky Arta thread to go fast for a spectrum loudspeaker capture ! And I just noticed I had no bass on a speaker after I performed weither the Soundcard testing or a cable changing inside the filter : I like to play with the extra diameter of the Gnd loudspeaker cable in the filter : the thicker, the thicker the sound due to less resistance -of course works with the main gnd speaker cable- but it's cool to tune a loudspeaker according your source/amp combo ! Lol I just noticed it seriously not after the measurment though I have a doubt yesterday night, but by listening this album : hope I had not made a crazy setting with arta that destroyed the bass drivers, lol ! What a hobby, really... Some say we have speaker not for music but because this a modern world ritual passage for men than having a good hifi, like cars.... or a Lion's hunt or mushrooms eat in some other cultures ! Hope I hadn't hunted the mushrooms of my bass driver left channel, lol ! I know all of this will turn one day with an ESL63 or a Martin-Logan --- second hand !
If unfindable I will Dropbox it to you. But what I hae is a copy from an hifi budies meeting, so I have no insurance on how it wad printed on the cd I have !
Just listened an artist I like : first album from "Fink"; Distance & Time -2007- simple : an acoustical guitar, a voice, sometimes an other musician. I often use it to test male voice and acoustic guitar to have the good thickness while staying relaxed on the voice but having attacks on strings - ok it's not cellos or bass- but I like to test it on paper drivers.
Well the funny thing is I talk yu about that cause yesterday I fired some Arta measurments after Hensolo that nicely advised me in the sticky Arta thread to go fast for a spectrum loudspeaker capture ! And I just noticed I had no bass on a speaker after I performed weither the Soundcard testing or a cable changing inside the filter : I like to play with the extra diameter of the Gnd loudspeaker cable in the filter : the thicker, the thicker the sound due to less resistance -of course works with the main gnd speaker cable- but it's cool to tune a loudspeaker according your source/amp combo ! Lol I just noticed it seriously not after the measurment though I have a doubt yesterday night, but by listening this album : hope I had not made a crazy setting with arta that destroyed the bass drivers, lol ! What a hobby, really... Some say we have speaker not for music but because this a modern world ritual passage for men than having a good hifi, like cars.... or a Lion's hunt or mushrooms eat in some other cultures ! Hope I hadn't hunted the mushrooms of my bass driver left channel, lol ! I know all of this will turn one day with an ESL63 or a Martin-Logan --- second hand !