Ivey was right.
I searched for musicality within tons of datasheets to replace Phono and Power pre- NPNs in old receiver Trio TK60. And after choosing them according to datasheets (large current, High F) - I have found Ivey's thread here.
My conclusions:
2N2222(A) is outstanding (100%) - no coloration, no "transistor sound" distortions, no mess in spectra both in lows and highs. Tube sound. Extended bass with no distortions. At all.
2N4401 (90%) - slight plastic coloration (intermodulation distortions), a bit "woody" sound in middles, but full extended bass with no mess, with no "d-r-r-r".
2N3904 - (70% to 2N2222). As to comparing to vintage SC350 - full bass, wider stereopanorama, but recognizable "plastic", slightly compressed sound, typical for most bipolars. But MUCH better than vintage SC350.
2N5551 (replacement for SC317/318) - the same story as 2N3904 - much better, but with very light plastic coloration, and a bit aggressive sound (the most bipolars have it).
I value most other bipolars (hundred types) over my 30+ years of fight for the good music sound against electronics = at 50% comparing to 2N2222A.
Thank You, Ivey.
Listen, Ivey. You was absolutely right.
I searched for musicality within tons of datasheets to replace Phono and Power pre- NPNs in old receiver Trio TK60. And after choosing them according to datasheets (large current, High F) - I have found Ivey's thread here.
My conclusions:
2N2222(A) is outstanding (100%) - no coloration, no "transistor sound" distortions, no mess in spectra both in lows and highs. Tube sound. Extended bass with no distortions. At all.
2N4401 (90%) - slight plastic coloration (intermodulation distortions), a bit "woody" sound in middles, but full extended bass with no mess, with no "d-r-r-r".
2N3904 - (70% to 2N2222). As to comparing to vintage SC350 - full bass, wider stereopanorama, but recognizable "plastic", slightly compressed sound, typical for most bipolars. But MUCH better than vintage SC350.
2N5551 (replacement for SC317/318) - the same story as 2N3904 - much better, but with very light plastic coloration, and a bit aggressive sound (the most bipolars have it).
I value most other bipolars (hundred types) over my 30+ years of fight for the good music sound against electronics = at 50% comparing to 2N2222A.
Thank You, Ivey.
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Darn. There are some people, who I just have to read their posts and I get this strong feeling not only are they skilled and experienced, but also express themselves clearly, without creating conflict, are helpful and share their knowledge freely without dogma and whom I'd have loved to have met. There aren't many of them on the forum but Ivey was one.
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Since Ivey is no longer there and I have made some suggestions in the past, here is what can be seen as the final version, as close as possible to the version at the beginning of this thread, but now error free.
Gain is 40dB at 1Khz, the right figure for an MM.
I have enclosed the .asc file so everybody can play with the model.
Here ends my contribution.
Hans
Gain is 40dB at 1Khz, the right figure for an MM.
I have enclosed the .asc file so everybody can play with the model.
Here ends my contribution.
Hans
Attachments
If the 30 V supply is decently well-regulated and clean - and, given the topology, it better be - I'd be replacing the noisy zener with a 1.3 kOhm (1 W) resistor instead. (Zener current seems a tad excessive either way, you could probably reduce that by a factor of 5.) Otherwise you can easily add 1 kOhm in series between D1 and C7 to knock down the noise. When leaving the zener in, it better get a dedicated power ground path back to 30 V power ground.
2n2222 in Trio receiver
Compare schematics with phono section of Trio (Kenwood) TK60 receiver (from 196x... 1970).
Almost the same, or at least very similar "tube schematics".
I have replaced bipolars by 2N2222, replaced caps with mica caps, big one with Hitano or Teapo caps, replaced NPNs in preamp and pre-output stages to 2N2222, improved Power supply... and.... (drums) the sound is great!
And when I say great I mean great.
Keyword - "simplicity", which is here allowed by 2N2222 specs.
Compare schematics with phono section of Trio (Kenwood) TK60 receiver (from 196x... 1970).
Almost the same, or at least very similar "tube schematics".
I have replaced bipolars by 2N2222, replaced caps with mica caps, big one with Hitano or Teapo caps, replaced NPNs in preamp and pre-output stages to 2N2222, improved Power supply... and.... (drums) the sound is great!
And when I say great I mean great.
Keyword - "simplicity", which is here allowed by 2N2222 specs.
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which brand did you use? central/metal? ON semi/plastic? somewhere int the thread is mentioned that old type sounds better?
I don't know brand. I used PN2222 as well as 2N2222, in TO92 plastic case. No difference in sound.
I can go as far as I say that never in my life heared transistor amplifier with so clean sound. It is only very small margin less musical than best tube amplifier(s) I have heared. The only difference is the size of the dynamics of musical sound. Transistor amplifier with 2N2222 has smaller dynamics than tube, but time to time it can fool you, pretending it is good tube amp.
As long as you asked, a couple additional
Secrets:
(1) 2N2222 itself IS NEUTRAL. It is not "dead neutral" in the meaning "lifeless". This peace of art is very "sensitive" in the sense of delivering details. Therefore it could bring you a lot of garbage from power supply, from feedback capacitors etc. Thus you MUST provide CLEAN PSU, for example with good capacitance multiplier.
(2). Claim: transistor 2N2222 works in cap multiplier PERFECTLY, with more details and more dynamics, clearly better than 2N3904, 2N4401.
(3). It is difficult for anything or anybody (equipment and persons) to dupe me by "fake hifi" sound, when small amount of 2-nd, 3-rd harmonics in transfer function of transistor (or tube) adds some artificial harmonics with additional fake "details". I can clearly hear the difference.
2N2222 is a real peace of art.
(4). The explanation (partly): 2N2222 has Ft=300 MHz, and 0.6A...1.0 A Ic max. Therefore it's construction can deliver very high gradients of current (much large than required), with small limitation by skin-effect. Given high Ft is has small aperture (inner gap), with very short fly time of signal carriers, delivering small time lag (delay) to internal feedback.
Conclusion: for high musicality choose bipolars with high Ft, high Ic max, and as high Vce as possible (Ivey already mentined this fact before) at the same time.... which gives you again 2N4401, 2N3904, 2N5551.
In cap multiplier 2N5551 is staying very close to 2N2222, better than 2N4401 or 2N3904 - due to higher Vce max and less distortions. But 2N2222 gives more details and transparency.
Note: I am 56, and I can hear the difference in brand of solder (tin or 5% silver) in otherwise identical RCA cables. Therefore please, take these claims pretty seriously.
Strange, inner structure of 2N2222 looks pretty regular, nothing special, except the huge basement and very simple shape of base and emitter zones.
Ivey said the key is a very simple wafer process of 2N2222 production.
See photo.
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Good transistor amplifier can give you:i believe, coming from the tube /perfect/ world.. so i made Central and On semi stash and will go also for JAN2N2222A from Mouser and some Motorolas from ebay.. why notpcbs will be homemade so nothing to loose here, only gain
= much "more controlled" bass, due to less distortions.
= trebles with much less "nice", "good-sounding" 2-nd order distortions of tube amplifier.
= as a result - more definitive stereobase panorama.
Controlled panorama was one of the main reasons why most sound engineers switched from tube mixing consoles to transistor consoles in 197x. They don't like tube "beautification" of sound, and additionally - that by the price of blurred stereo panorama (aside from power consumptions of tubes and a lot of effects in transistor consoles). Sound engineer Philip Newell (co-founder of Virgin Records) told me about it.
Extended bass and stereo panorama with 2N2222 will surprize You - comparing to tubes. The middles will have "presence in room" effect, and the trebles will be "clean ding".
These are the main reasons to build with 2N2222 after tubes.
Note: use mica capacitors, and Hitano or Teapo brands of electrolytic caps.
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i have built dozens FET variations of "LE-PAcific" phono with all kind of vintage and modern FETs, 2SK170, SMDs like 2SK2394-6,CPH3910,BSR58,2SK3557,
2SK209 and true, compared to the valve phonos (EAR, Haas etc) bass is more strong, defined, sharp, fast, but with valves have magic in midrange, voices are thicker one can easy choose valve over transistor phono.. giving slightly more pleasure in listening and that's is all about ! im searching the way to have "tubey" sound with modern FETs...
at home listening i'm using often sinergy from tube phono with transistor amp or transistor phono with tube preamp-amp. so in one enclosure, i call it RIAA switcher i have built several phono preamps and with selector on the front plate, selecting phono type depending of the mood. missing only to build and integrate 2n2222a phono inside
2SK209 and true, compared to the valve phonos (EAR, Haas etc) bass is more strong, defined, sharp, fast, but with valves have magic in midrange, voices are thicker one can easy choose valve over transistor phono.. giving slightly more pleasure in listening and that's is all about ! im searching the way to have "tubey" sound with modern FETs...
at home listening i'm using often sinergy from tube phono with transistor amp or transistor phono with tube preamp-amp. so in one enclosure, i call it RIAA switcher i have built several phono preamps and with selector on the front plate, selecting phono type depending of the mood. missing only to build and integrate 2n2222a phono inside
Agree. This 2N2222 phono amp is only a step in my research too.i have built dozens FET variations of "LE-PAcific" phono with all kind of vintage and modern FETs, 2SK170, SMDs like 2SK2394-6,CPH3910,BSR58,2SK3557,
2SK209 and true, compared to the valve phonos (EAR, Haas etc) bass is more strong, defined, sharp, fast, but with valves have magic in midrange, voices are thicker one can easy choose valve over transistor phono.. giving slightly more pleasure in listening and that's is all about ! im searching the way to have "tubey" sound with modern FETs...
at home listening i'm using often sinergy from tube phono with transistor amp or transistor phono with tube preamp-amp. so in one enclosure, i call it RIAA switcher i have built several phono preamps and with selector on the front plate, selecting phono type depending of the mood. missing only to build and integrate 2n2222a phono inside
One way to achive this goal is to increase voltage of power supply to transistor amplifier, up to tube levels.
Thre are many reasons to do this - see for example
Discrete Opamp Open Design
Many technical problems in this way. But it is only a matter of time (and money).