There is a group buy signup sheet for anyone interested in a TL flatpack.
There is an option for birch or walnut veneer finish. We need 5 pairs to make the GB happen and we have 3 people right now signed up.
There is an option for birch or walnut veneer finish. We need 5 pairs to make the GB happen and we have 3 people right now signed up.
So I finally got to hear these. Using SB23nrx45-8 with PS95-8. The bass and midwoofer sounds about right, the highs are kinda there, but there is no midrange, or it is a very poor blend between the 2 drivers. I seem to have alot of volume with the SB23 but very little output from the PS95-8. I used the crossover schematics below
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor.273524/page-211
What controls the cutoff and level of the PS95-8. Should I try a smaller capacitor in the tweeter section to try and gain some midrange. Unfortunately I have nothing to measure anything so I am kinda shooting in the dark. I just know it doesnt sound good. Going to break down the crossover and boards and set them up on a terminal block so I can change out values and test.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor.273524/page-211
What controls the cutoff and level of the PS95-8. Should I try a smaller capacitor in the tweeter section to try and gain some midrange. Unfortunately I have nothing to measure anything so I am kinda shooting in the dark. I just know it doesnt sound good. Going to break down the crossover and boards and set them up on a terminal block so I can change out values and test.
Attachments
Gsrchrisu,
Nice work on the cabinets - beautiful woodwork!
Thanks for trying out the SB23 and pS95-8. I never tried the SB23 in the TL which was really designed for the RS225-8. So you mileage may vary on the bass.
As far as lack of midrange etc, I am not sure but it could be that the SB23 and PS95 was designed for the tweeter to be on top like a conventional speaker. That’s how it was voiced and measured.
Try reducing R1 from 3R to plain jumper (0R) and see if that helps.
Alternatively, try C3 = 8.2uF and L1 = 1.5mH and adjust R1 by ear circa 1R to 3R
Nice work on the cabinets - beautiful woodwork!
Thanks for trying out the SB23 and pS95-8. I never tried the SB23 in the TL which was really designed for the RS225-8. So you mileage may vary on the bass.
As far as lack of midrange etc, I am not sure but it could be that the SB23 and PS95 was designed for the tweeter to be on top like a conventional speaker. That’s how it was voiced and measured.
Try reducing R1 from 3R to plain jumper (0R) and see if that helps.
Alternatively, try C3 = 8.2uF and L1 = 1.5mH and adjust R1 by ear circa 1R to 3R
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Thank you for some ideas, gonna out board the cross overs so I can experiment. I will flip the TL upside down, hahaha should make for a fun pic. I might try building the bookshelf version as well.
The flip upside down would increase directness of mids somewhat but can be effected with swapping 3R resistor at R1 for jumper. It would look funny upside down! 🙂
I just bought a pair of 10F/8424 so hoping to get something up and working. I'm well into retirement so unable to do any major carpentry and live in a London apartment anyway. So I'm looking to find a donor speaker with a bass unit that would mate with the 10F. I have a pair of Kef B200s so that's one idea. The crossover might be an issue since there's a hump in the response, see pic. It was used in an IMF 3-way so there's a specimen xover there to start with, but I don't have the tools to refine the response. There are some Mission speakers with 8" bass units and plenty with 6.5" units. It would have to be something available easily in the UK. I could just use the donor cabinet and buy a pair of bass units but I don't want to throw money at it - something good value with least effort involved.
One question - why does the 10F need a crossover filter to roll off the bass? It seems to roll of quite naturally.
All ideas welcome.
One question - why does the 10F need a crossover filter to roll off the bass? It seems to roll of quite naturally.
All ideas welcome.
It must have a crossover, to limit the movement of the membrane at low frequencies, and to maintain the impedance of the entire assembly with the bass helper.
First, I would say you need to use the correct crossover. It is quite simple and can be built point to point on some prototyping board. It is as important a part of the speaker as the drive units (actually maybe more...)
Second, dedicated cabinets will be far better than some cheap repurposed ones - and you don't need a full workshop. You can get companies to do CNC plywood from CAD files, and even if CAD is not your thing, they will be able to turn a paper/pencil drawing into CNC CAD. You don't need to have fancy mitred corners, just flat panels that will glue up to form a box. You can build it up with wood glue and 4-6 clamps, if you do it a bit at a time. Sandpaper to finish, and you can veneer it or paint it in the future if you want.
andyjevans,
Since you are planning to use a different woofer, it will not longer be the same speaker as the one X has designed.
My understanding is that the RS225 is at the heart of this particular design, and X designed the speaker and crossover around its capabilities.
Perhaps it would have been better if you had gotten the Dayton RS225-8 woofer and then chosen one of the wide-band driver options (Vifa/Tympany TC9FD, Dayton RS100, Visaton B80 or Scanspeak 10F) according to your total budget to go with it.
Since you are planning to use a different woofer, it will not longer be the same speaker as the one X has designed.
My understanding is that the RS225 is at the heart of this particular design, and X designed the speaker and crossover around its capabilities.
Perhaps it would have been better if you had gotten the Dayton RS225-8 woofer and then chosen one of the wide-band driver options (Vifa/Tympany TC9FD, Dayton RS100, Visaton B80 or Scanspeak 10F) according to your total budget to go with it.
Thanks for the replies, guys. I need a donor cabinet - I can't do woodwork in my apartment. But that's not the main thing. The main thing is what bass unit to use. The RS225 is as you say the heart of the design. Dayton isn't a common UK speaker but it can be found. This is basically a US design though I'm sure it's been built around the world. I can make up a crossover, that's not a problem. Sound Imports do the RS225 in Europe - I'd have preferred something cheaper but I probably have to bite the bullet.
Update - found a single RS225-8 at a discount so I'll be looking for another and using that. Starting to make more sense now. I'll look at cabinet choices.
Update - found a single RS225-8 at a discount so I'll be looking for another and using that. Starting to make more sense now. I'll look at cabinet choices.
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You can't just plug in a 10F with a donor cabinet, any woofer laying around, a donor XO, and expect much, thinking it will sound anything close to what people have done here.
You want to do it? Do it right. Otherwise it will be a waste of money and time.
I'm sure there are cabinet makers or carpenters who could help you make the enclosures.
Then, although the RS225 is hard to get in Europe, it is not impossible. Plus, there are a couple of alternatives that were shown in this thread, including a TangBand coax that forego the 10F.
Do it right.
You want to do it? Do it right. Otherwise it will be a waste of money and time.
I'm sure there are cabinet makers or carpenters who could help you make the enclosures.
Then, although the RS225 is hard to get in Europe, it is not impossible. Plus, there are a couple of alternatives that were shown in this thread, including a TangBand coax that forego the 10F.
Do it right.
You can get the Daytons for £80 each next day from Amazon. That’s how I got mine. Absolutely fine.
I looked up sports cones on ebay and they have 7" (18cm) and 9" (23cm) ones. Which should be used here? What are their internal volume in ltrs? Thanks
It probably doesn't matter - the crossover frequency is high compared to the frequency that the cone's volume will affect. Probably the bigger one is "better". But honestly - I bought those cones initially, but they are very soft, so soft that they cannot be mechanically mounted without some kind of retaining flange - and they are polyethylene, so NOTHING really sticks to them - even butyl sound deadening was not really sticking, nevermind the CT1 construction adhesive I planned to use to mount them. I ended up 3D printing cones, which was much better, or you could use the sports cones as a form to make fibreglass ones.
I used 9in ones main point was to give the driver enough room and clearance. The volume is not critical but larger does provide more air spring compliance.
Andyjevans,
Perceval is correct. The RS225-8 (aluminum 8ohms) is the heart of this speaker. The full range drivers are adaptable. 10F, TC9, B80, 3FE25, RS100, etc. if you can find a donor cabinet with about 10in wide baffle and about 7 to 8in CTC distance from woofer to mid-tweeter it can work. You need a chamber to isolate the full range cone from woofer cone motion and air pressure. The crossover is critical for the proper slope and response.
Perceval is correct. The RS225-8 (aluminum 8ohms) is the heart of this speaker. The full range drivers are adaptable. 10F, TC9, B80, 3FE25, RS100, etc. if you can find a donor cabinet with about 10in wide baffle and about 7 to 8in CTC distance from woofer to mid-tweeter it can work. You need a chamber to isolate the full range cone from woofer cone motion and air pressure. The crossover is critical for the proper slope and response.
9" long ones should be good. You might have to take a little bit of the top the cone. The part that needs to be fixed to the baffle is around 5" x 5". Look for ones that are fairly stiff.
There's a floor-stander design and a stand-mount cabinet design - possibly you are planning to do the stand-mount version?