Women never have enough shoes....
Men never have nuff BAZZZZ!!!!
At subwoofer frequencies the orientation has no effect, other than the increased cooling provided with the magnet structure closer to the mouth exit reduces power compression.
Some woofer rear vents may be noisy, which could be a concern if there is no program material to mask it.
The Keystone and most tapped horn designs do not have enough throat depth to allow orientation other than basket out.
Hey all - this might be a dumb question. I was about to order another B&C 18SW100 for my second Keystone when I came across the Dayton Odeum 18" on PartsExpress. Currently on sale for what looks like a good price - as in, close to 4 Odeums for the price of a single 18SW115. Curious what the pros here think about this driver in a Keystone? Obviously power handling/Xmax are lower but if space/number of cabinets isn't a concern, is the performance tradeoff from an 18SW100 or 18SW115 worth considering?
@DeuceEx You decide.
Grey is BC18SW115, black Dayton Pro 18. Please note I was also only able to give the dayton's around a 1000w@8ohm before it's EG exceeded xmax. I think there are better options if you're looking for budget drivers.
And VS BC18SW100-4.
Again Black is Dayton, grey is BC.
Grey is BC18SW115, black Dayton Pro 18. Please note I was also only able to give the dayton's around a 1000w@8ohm before it's EG exceeded xmax. I think there are better options if you're looking for budget drivers.
And VS BC18SW100-4.
Again Black is Dayton, grey is BC.
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not necessarily.... (but not the question either). assume its all real and needs an explanation regarding the box size and TS parameters?
Haa, so when you see that valley you need to reduce the CSA's of the cab? Now I learned something new.
😉
There isn't as much difference between the Odeum 18" and the B&C 18SW100 as the 18SW115.
The Odeum has around 28% less displacement than the 18SW100, 41% less than the 18SW115.
BL squared/Re Odeum =124, 18SW100=136, 18SW115=173.
The much greater motor force of the SW115 makes a big difference in the low end over the weaker motors.
That said, if you are satisfied with the performance of the 18SW100, the Odeum won't be too far behind.
If someone else was lugging properly powered cabinets around, I'd definitely choose four Odeum over one 18SW115, or three Odeum over one 18SW100, if they could be fit in the venue.
Of course, when you add up cabinet material and amplifier costs, the "affordability" of the lesser drivers doesn't look so great.
Art
It becomes a concern when the driver runs out of excursion or the amp runs out of voltage.
"Too big?" The Keystone cant be cut down in width and fit two x LAB 12.
The above Hornresp simulation compares the 2xLAB12 at 13mm excursion to the BC18SW115 at 14mm, the 2x12 has a -4dB "saddle".
At 2 meters, the measured ground plane response looks different, the saddle is only -2dB, but the 95Hz peak is +6dB over 40Hz compared to +4 in the sim :
The excursion is pretty close to prediction, as confirmed by actual measurements and distortion tests:
Anyway, sims of the Keystone are close, but don't expect the frequency response to be exactly as predicted, Hornresp can't sim the exit shape.
Art
@hRy23 thanks for plugging those in. What might you suggest in the range of budget drivers instead?
@weltersys thanks for chiming in Art, this was how i was thinking about it also. It doesn't seem like a pair of Odeum's quite reaches the performance of either of the B&C drivers in a single cabinet, but I appreciate hearing your thoughts on where it might be worth the trade-off.
I really depends on what you want out of it. To me, after simulating a bunch of budget driver options available to me, I came to the conclusion that the BC18SW115 just makes the most sense for a couple of reasons.
However, if you're still looking for a budget options; The best I could find available and in my opinion could be of interest to you is the Eighteen Sound 18LW2400-4. Thomann sells it for €398,- around here. Here's the simulation compared to the BC18SW115.
Black: Eighteen Sound 18LW2400-4
Grey: BC18SW115-4
It's the closest thing I have found that comes close to the BC18SW115 that costs about €125,- less. It will also draw alot less power, which could be a plus for you.
In the end though, even though a ~-2,5dB diffrence might not look like alot, consider that it will be about 0.735 the loudness of the B&C at 35-45hz with a similair dip around 80-100hz. Which for me are pretty crucial frequency ranges for the music I play. For this reason and the ones I stated above, the €125,- I would save is just not worth the dip in perfomance. Again, this could be different for you.
I invite you to look around at some drivers available to you and put them into hornresp, it can look pretty daunting but it's not that hard. There are plenty of tutorials online and it will aid your understanding of DIY audio. Combined with that and a good understanding of what you want out of your subs and system now and in the future will give you the answer 🙂
- I am very new to PA and thus are cautious to venture into unexplored waters due to the fear of overlooking some details that majorly impact the sound.
- I am looking to build out into a big rig as I go, having to resell the drivers down the road in order to upgrade would cost me more that just buying the right driver itself.
- As others have stated, although I cannot confirm, it is the industry standard driver and thus will give you "that professional sound". I am inclined to believe them.
- Building a relatively large enclosure like this seems to make less and less sense the cheaper in driver you go.
However, if you're still looking for a budget options; The best I could find available and in my opinion could be of interest to you is the Eighteen Sound 18LW2400-4. Thomann sells it for €398,- around here. Here's the simulation compared to the BC18SW115.
Black: Eighteen Sound 18LW2400-4
Grey: BC18SW115-4
It's the closest thing I have found that comes close to the BC18SW115 that costs about €125,- less. It will also draw alot less power, which could be a plus for you.
In the end though, even though a ~-2,5dB diffrence might not look like alot, consider that it will be about 0.735 the loudness of the B&C at 35-45hz with a similair dip around 80-100hz. Which for me are pretty crucial frequency ranges for the music I play. For this reason and the ones I stated above, the €125,- I would save is just not worth the dip in perfomance. Again, this could be different for you.
I invite you to look around at some drivers available to you and put them into hornresp, it can look pretty daunting but it's not that hard. There are plenty of tutorials online and it will aid your understanding of DIY audio. Combined with that and a good understanding of what you want out of your subs and system now and in the future will give you the answer 🙂
I see 18SW115 at TLHP for €372/pc when you buy a pair. A lovely price.
Thanks for the effort and easy to understand response . You’re a HUGE help and very appreciated 🙏🏻
@maxolini I thought better tidy up my simulation and get it closer to the details (blue is measurement with a filter kicking in on the amp near 200hz )
The dip at the full wavelength isn’t as deep and you can see this if you describe the driver position offset more or less as well. This stuff is tricky
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