Toyota engine are generally superior in reliability.
I'm all for nostalgia and owning vintage items, but to suggest carbureted distributor engines were in ANY way superior to modern engines, is delusional. Yes, in those days the engines were easier to access and required fewer special tools to repair, but an old GM engine started burning oil at 100k, nowadays an LS engine still has the factory cylinder bore hone pattern intact at 100k.
I'm all for nostalgia and owning vintage items, but to suggest carbureted distributor engines were in ANY way superior to modern engines, is delusional. Yes, in those days the engines were easier to access and required fewer special tools to repair, but an old GM engine started burning oil at 100k, nowadays an LS engine still has the factory cylinder bore hone pattern intact at 100k.
My old 1978 GMC Jimmy 350 small block never burned oil, even at close to 300k kilometers. I gave it an oil change every 5k.
Of course, the body was full of holes by then.
jeff
I bought a nice small Toyota Corolla second hand and it still proves to be excellent despite its K's/miles.
Before I gave it my first oil change, I did lots & lots of research into oils and lubricants. It turns out that with engines that are getting old and a bit worn,
fully synthetic (and 50/50) are not actually desirable, despite advertising, because of the effect of synthetics on old seals. I also learnt that Oil-Flush is a no no.
Things can get a bit more loose & wobbly after using Oil-Flush and this can lead to unwanted side-effects. Synthetics + Flush is for newer TIGHT engines.
I'm glad that I spent so much time researching > even into additives > I learnt a lot, and finally realized that the best oil for my situation is actually
the most expensive car oil in Australia. This is LiquiMoly 20W-50 MoS2 , a fully mineral oil with added Molybdenum Disulfide. MoS2 is used in the Military.
My car is quiet & smooth 🙂
Before I gave it my first oil change, I did lots & lots of research into oils and lubricants. It turns out that with engines that are getting old and a bit worn,
fully synthetic (and 50/50) are not actually desirable, despite advertising, because of the effect of synthetics on old seals. I also learnt that Oil-Flush is a no no.
Things can get a bit more loose & wobbly after using Oil-Flush and this can lead to unwanted side-effects. Synthetics + Flush is for newer TIGHT engines.
I'm glad that I spent so much time researching > even into additives > I learnt a lot, and finally realized that the best oil for my situation is actually
the most expensive car oil in Australia. This is LiquiMoly 20W-50 MoS2 , a fully mineral oil with added Molybdenum Disulfide. MoS2 is used in the Military.
My car is quiet & smooth 🙂
Naresh, you can't just class all engines from a manufacturer as good or bad. For example, Toyota's petrol injected straight six in the Landcruiser was apparently bullet proof, but the 1KD diesel in the Landcruiser Prado has issues with cracking pistons and requires the replacement of expensive OEM injectors on a regular basis (high pressure injection; aftermarket injectors are not recommended), but is otherwise a good engine; and so on. The modern diesels are expensive to maintain.
That said, my son's 270,000km travelled Prado was driven across Australia via the Nullarbor Plain to Adelaide and Melbourne and back last Christmas, some 7,000km in three weeks, and did not miss a beat. But it is very well looked after.
You need to look at the specific car you intend to buy and search for feedback on the engine type code (for example).
As for servicing in general, I have worked on a few Toyotas (Camry x 2 , Corolla, Landcruiser and Landcruiser Prado) and they are no better or worse to work on than any other car I find, despite the reputation for ease of servicing. However, at least in Australia, I find they offer service parts such as filters, sump plug washers and similar high turnover things for lower cost than many other makes.
Interestingly, for the Prado we buy larger parts such as suspension control arms from Amayama in the UAE for significantly lower cost than here even after shipping They are a well known supplier of OE Toyota parts and are very reliable.
That said, my son's 270,000km travelled Prado was driven across Australia via the Nullarbor Plain to Adelaide and Melbourne and back last Christmas, some 7,000km in three weeks, and did not miss a beat. But it is very well looked after.
You need to look at the specific car you intend to buy and search for feedback on the engine type code (for example).
As for servicing in general, I have worked on a few Toyotas (Camry x 2 , Corolla, Landcruiser and Landcruiser Prado) and they are no better or worse to work on than any other car I find, despite the reputation for ease of servicing. However, at least in Australia, I find they offer service parts such as filters, sump plug washers and similar high turnover things for lower cost than many other makes.
Interestingly, for the Prado we buy larger parts such as suspension control arms from Amayama in the UAE for significantly lower cost than here even after shipping They are a well known supplier of OE Toyota parts and are very reliable.
Last edited:
Hi wg_ski,
Well, at the risk of upsetting many folks ... My family has been in the car business since before I reached 20 years old. Mostly used less than 5 years old, and my brother did have a dealership. So, we know cars. Pretty well actually.
The F150 is a cheap truck that normally rots out pretty quickly around here. They are made light, generally get poor fuel economy compared to say a GM. Ford is popular because they cost less (and are actually priced higher than they should be). The Ford plant in Ontario was close to me when I lived in Mississauga (Oakville). Their engines were never what I would call powerful. Chrysler factory engines were more powerful. GM engines were far more reliable. Lately they are all bad.
I noticed that "Ford people" are glued to the brand much like a religion. I have owned many cars, over 20. Ford is my last choice among them. I've had three over the course of my life, each was a complete disaster in their own way. None handled well. I would never get behind the wheel and drive a Ford to the speeds I have in other brands. I'm not married to any one brand and have driven just about every brand there is except some new ones or electric.
That being said, I am happy you haven't had bad luck with the brand. They deserve your loyalty if that's the case. They are best if you own them for 3 years or so, then bail for a new one.
Back to electronics ....
Everything eventually fails. Can it be repaired reliably? If the answer is no, the item should never have been manufactured (unless it was in a missile and failure was due to a catastrophic, terminal event).
Class D was pushed on us because is was cheap to manufacture and not repairable because they keep discontinuing the chips. That and it is mostly surface mount, and contract manufactured so you can't get service information. This is exactly what the audio industry wanted since the early 1980's when profit became king. They are also very light, cutting shipping costs, again a win for profit.
I can see for cars and battery operated equipment where power consumption is a legitimate concern, and quality less so. Class D wasn't developed because it was good for the consumer. It became a "thing" because profit margins are higher, and the lack of repair eliminates that entire cost to distributing a product and providing warranty. That would be cost of maintaining service information, parts and technical staff. We, as consumers, accepted this and here we are.
Well, at the risk of upsetting many folks ... My family has been in the car business since before I reached 20 years old. Mostly used less than 5 years old, and my brother did have a dealership. So, we know cars. Pretty well actually.
The F150 is a cheap truck that normally rots out pretty quickly around here. They are made light, generally get poor fuel economy compared to say a GM. Ford is popular because they cost less (and are actually priced higher than they should be). The Ford plant in Ontario was close to me when I lived in Mississauga (Oakville). Their engines were never what I would call powerful. Chrysler factory engines were more powerful. GM engines were far more reliable. Lately they are all bad.
I noticed that "Ford people" are glued to the brand much like a religion. I have owned many cars, over 20. Ford is my last choice among them. I've had three over the course of my life, each was a complete disaster in their own way. None handled well. I would never get behind the wheel and drive a Ford to the speeds I have in other brands. I'm not married to any one brand and have driven just about every brand there is except some new ones or electric.
That being said, I am happy you haven't had bad luck with the brand. They deserve your loyalty if that's the case. They are best if you own them for 3 years or so, then bail for a new one.
Back to electronics ....
Everything eventually fails. Can it be repaired reliably? If the answer is no, the item should never have been manufactured (unless it was in a missile and failure was due to a catastrophic, terminal event).
Class D was pushed on us because is was cheap to manufacture and not repairable because they keep discontinuing the chips. That and it is mostly surface mount, and contract manufactured so you can't get service information. This is exactly what the audio industry wanted since the early 1980's when profit became king. They are also very light, cutting shipping costs, again a win for profit.
I can see for cars and battery operated equipment where power consumption is a legitimate concern, and quality less so. Class D wasn't developed because it was good for the consumer. It became a "thing" because profit margins are higher, and the lack of repair eliminates that entire cost to distributing a product and providing warranty. That would be cost of maintaining service information, parts and technical staff. We, as consumers, accepted this and here we are.
Hi leadbelly,
Throttle body injection had higher fuel economy than direct injection. Carburetors can actually perform very well. They do require maintenance and adjustment for air pressure. Modern systems are under computer control and offer convenience (who can remember just how to get your old car started? It was different for various cars) so it took some skill at times.
So yeah. I'll suggest that carburetors can perform well under some conditions. My fastest cars used normal carburetors. I'm sure that today a direct injection may outperform them.
Throttle body injection had higher fuel economy than direct injection. Carburetors can actually perform very well. They do require maintenance and adjustment for air pressure. Modern systems are under computer control and offer convenience (who can remember just how to get your old car started? It was different for various cars) so it took some skill at times.
So yeah. I'll suggest that carburetors can perform well under some conditions. My fastest cars used normal carburetors. I'm sure that today a direct injection may outperform them.
Actually missiles and the electronics on board require the HIGHEST levels of reliability. Not necessarily the longest lifetimes (higher junction temps are allowed in the RF amplifiers) - but they need to withstand temperature extremes and cycling, and storage for decades. After sitting in the silo for 40 years it absolutely MUST work. Recapping isn’t an option.
I spent an afternoon talking to the designer of nuclear bomb fuses. Fascinating discussion. You need to be sure the circuit can't false trigger under any circumstances including power up. More responsibility than I can handle.
I imagine!
Not only fail-safe, but safe from failure. What a pile of stress that must be!
Yeah, power up and power down. Both times when circuit state can be undefined. With the first ones they didn't have to worry about cell phones, can you imagine?
Not only fail-safe, but safe from failure. What a pile of stress that must be!
Yeah, power up and power down. Both times when circuit state can be undefined. With the first ones they didn't have to worry about cell phones, can you imagine?
@NareshBrd. Toyota vehicles have always been good to me... from the 1977 base model truck the I learned to drive in, to my current rig, a 2007 FJ.
The FJ is at 18 years/200k miles and needs a timing chain which is pretty annoying but I can't complain too much. Many of the 07, 08 FJ's share this problem apparently. The only repairs necessary to date have been an alternator and a brake caliper. She has a small lift, 33' tires and still drives great and tracks straight.
I'm a little skeptical of the new hybrid drive trains and wish that I'd bought a 23' Tacoma with the V6. As it is, I'll probably sacrifice a weekend for the timing chain replacement and drive it a few more years.
@leadbelly I was into muscle cars in my youth and loved modifying or building motors. The raw horsepower and rumble was something else but it's hard to beat modern cars.
My wife seems to think that she'd like an old Range Rover but her current car can cross a snowy mountain pass, run a sub 5 second 0-60 and be thrown into a corner at SPEED, all while being exceedingly comfortable. We should find one for a test drive... I'm that potential nightmare might be quickly solved.
The FJ is at 18 years/200k miles and needs a timing chain which is pretty annoying but I can't complain too much. Many of the 07, 08 FJ's share this problem apparently. The only repairs necessary to date have been an alternator and a brake caliper. She has a small lift, 33' tires and still drives great and tracks straight.
I'm a little skeptical of the new hybrid drive trains and wish that I'd bought a 23' Tacoma with the V6. As it is, I'll probably sacrifice a weekend for the timing chain replacement and drive it a few more years.
@leadbelly I was into muscle cars in my youth and loved modifying or building motors. The raw horsepower and rumble was something else but it's hard to beat modern cars.
My wife seems to think that she'd like an old Range Rover but her current car can cross a snowy mountain pass, run a sub 5 second 0-60 and be thrown into a corner at SPEED, all while being exceedingly comfortable. We should find one for a test drive... I'm that potential nightmare might be quickly solved.
Agree on the Toyota. That's my new car (2024), gas only. I have completely lost faith in North American manufacturing after experiencing a steady decline in quality and reliability. Today we have more serious faults that are designed in domestic vehicles. Enough already!
For sure, but a Corvette does the trick. Camaros were scary fast too. In the past, the family car could be converted into a real demon. Hmmm, tricked out 6 in the Camry might be fun, an 8 would be too heavy.
Not much of a repair, but a repair nonetheless... this 1.5KW 40R resistor came loose in shipping and broke a crimp on connector. It's part of an industrial control unit / VFD to run a large, jacketed, stainless steel washing machine for making hash. 100lbs of cannabis flowers goes in and money comes out, or so I imagine.
Not so much of a repair, rather a modification.
I bought a pair of Sketchers slip on shoes.
Very comfortable, easy to put on, stay put etc etc.
Only problem with them is the 5 deep horizontal grooves that run across the soles from heel to toe.
The 3 rear most grooves are so deep they get smaller gravel wedged well and truly in and could damage / scratch stone and tiled floors.
Worse at the heel and mid groove. Shallow so no issue under the ball of foot and toes.
Solution, key the inner surface of the grooves and fill with silicone sealant to about 70%.
The shoes are absolutely fine now.
Traction on all surfaces the same.
No gravel pick up.
Sketchers shoe designers - why?
I bought a pair of Sketchers slip on shoes.
Very comfortable, easy to put on, stay put etc etc.
Only problem with them is the 5 deep horizontal grooves that run across the soles from heel to toe.
The 3 rear most grooves are so deep they get smaller gravel wedged well and truly in and could damage / scratch stone and tiled floors.
Worse at the heel and mid groove. Shallow so no issue under the ball of foot and toes.
Solution, key the inner surface of the grooves and fill with silicone sealant to about 70%.
The shoes are absolutely fine now.
Traction on all surfaces the same.
No gravel pick up.
Sketchers shoe designers - why?
I referred to my son's Landcruiser Prado above. The FJ actually has the drivetrain from the Prado, except that the FJ wasn't produced in a diesel variant. And the Australian Prado has long range fuel tanks (total 180 litres).
I should have added that one thing Toyota is good for is making their timing BELTS easier to change (I haven't done a chain on a Toyota). I've changed three different belts (Camry, Hilux and Prado) and they were quite simple; where the engine is of DOHC design, they implement drive between the cams and the belt drives just one cam so the valve timing is easier to set up. Nice and easy.
On my Peugeot for example it is much harder to get the timing right while feeding the belt over the two cams, tensioner and crank pulley.
@Stuey The gas V6 I'm dealing with (1gr-fe) and later variants require 3 chains. Add in a water pump, camshaft control valve, cogs (due to relatively high mileage) gaskets, sealant, hoses etc and the parts cost still isn't too bad. Around $600-$700 US. Labor is stiff though. I was recently quoted 4 grand all up... I don't particularly want to do the job but buying a nice 1/2" cordless impact driver and saving 3 grand to put toward a boat project that's on the horizon will be nice.
Well, 350 cid and variants had all metal gears and timing chain. Never had to change one and had very high miles on them. Belts, typically two maximum and easy to change. Some cars had fibre timing gears (duh!). Changed belts infrequently. Now, Covair belts - you carried a spare. They came up and over the engine, a 90° bend. Those belts didn't last nearly as long. That was an opposed 4 cyl "pancake" engine. Air cooled.
I'm wondering what the 2.5L Toyota engine will be like. Apparently the TRD went over the design, too bad it's the last year for gas only. I will say it is a lot better than the 2.4L '23 I test drove.
Aside from being quiet (who cares? The engine is running!), why would any sane person use a timing belt rather than metal chain?
I'm wondering what the 2.5L Toyota engine will be like. Apparently the TRD went over the design, too bad it's the last year for gas only. I will say it is a lot better than the 2.4L '23 I test drove.
Aside from being quiet (who cares? The engine is running!), why would any sane person use a timing belt rather than metal chain?
Belts are quieter, need no lube, and last 100K miles in Toyota and Nissan diesels, and in my little Alto, I changed it at 115k km because the head / valves needed work. They do say 100k IIRC.
Now with Euro - 6 emission norms in place, all the engines that I know of have metal chains inside the block, chain drive for the oil pump...broken chain means seized engine, happened on a small Skoda Rapid (cheaper version of VW Polo).
That is kind of stupid, gears or integral with crank shaft pump are more reliable.
Chains run best under constant lubrication, and can be noisy, Mahindra for one went back to gear drive on their push rod engines.
And some European engines had gears even for DOHC engines.
Toyota parts are quite reasonably priced, some Honda owners buy spark plugs etc. at Toyota dealers...they are 3x at Honda agencies!
My general question was: how easy is it in general to do maintenance like oil change, oil filter replacement, adjust belts, change plugs, and so on on the modern Toyota and Hyundai engines compared to their GM / Ford / Chrysler / Jeep / European equivalents?
Range Rover may no longer be as good as it once was, and now it is difficult to tell between Range Rover and Land Rover...and the old designs have been sent to India, sold as Tata Safari / Harrier. The Tata vehicles are at times released for sale before all the kinks are worked out, customer gets free extended warranty in exchange for being a guinea pig...best avoided till the model is two years old, the quality has improved in the new models, but Suzuki and Hyundai dominate the market by sales volume in India.
Volkswagen and Stellantis are too expensive to maintain for us Indians, parts supply and prices are eye-poping. Used Polos go for very low prices, after 100k km they are to be got rid of, the scheduled maintenance at 75 / 100k km is something terrible in price.
Ford has closed down in India, rumors are it wants to start again, again the cars were good, but the prices were at times 10x Suzuki for thermostat, and double on the same wheel bearing sold in the market by the bearing manufacturer...
No ties, just a general comparison. Names have to be used, cannot avoid that.
Now with Euro - 6 emission norms in place, all the engines that I know of have metal chains inside the block, chain drive for the oil pump...broken chain means seized engine, happened on a small Skoda Rapid (cheaper version of VW Polo).
That is kind of stupid, gears or integral with crank shaft pump are more reliable.
Chains run best under constant lubrication, and can be noisy, Mahindra for one went back to gear drive on their push rod engines.
And some European engines had gears even for DOHC engines.
Toyota parts are quite reasonably priced, some Honda owners buy spark plugs etc. at Toyota dealers...they are 3x at Honda agencies!
My general question was: how easy is it in general to do maintenance like oil change, oil filter replacement, adjust belts, change plugs, and so on on the modern Toyota and Hyundai engines compared to their GM / Ford / Chrysler / Jeep / European equivalents?
Range Rover may no longer be as good as it once was, and now it is difficult to tell between Range Rover and Land Rover...and the old designs have been sent to India, sold as Tata Safari / Harrier. The Tata vehicles are at times released for sale before all the kinks are worked out, customer gets free extended warranty in exchange for being a guinea pig...best avoided till the model is two years old, the quality has improved in the new models, but Suzuki and Hyundai dominate the market by sales volume in India.
Volkswagen and Stellantis are too expensive to maintain for us Indians, parts supply and prices are eye-poping. Used Polos go for very low prices, after 100k km they are to be got rid of, the scheduled maintenance at 75 / 100k km is something terrible in price.
Ford has closed down in India, rumors are it wants to start again, again the cars were good, but the prices were at times 10x Suzuki for thermostat, and double on the same wheel bearing sold in the market by the bearing manufacturer...
No ties, just a general comparison. Names have to be used, cannot avoid that.
That's a good price. We know we are gouged in Australia when it comes to car parts. It's not so jokingly referred to as the Australia tax. But Toyota is funny. You can go to a dealer expecting a massive parts quote and it can sometimes surprise you with how cheap they are. But then a pair of headlights is half the cost of an engine. A bit of an exaggeration, but....
Yes I know that V6 - it's in the petrol versions of the Prado over here. They go well even in that weight of vehicle don't they!? We do have the FJ here but they are reasonably rare, being a US market car.
I'm lucky - even though I have a fair complement of tools myself, my son is a heavy plant mechanic and has all the gear. Once I used an impact driver I could never go back. Only to undo of course, but so quick! I almost get impatient now if I'm doing a decent sized job and have to loosen a load of nuts with a manual ratchet.
Good luck with the job!