You know, I have it as a PDF file in my Dropbox on my phone. Will take a look.
Yes that would be a great idea! The full Joe designed surround sound home theatre just need to have Joe design a subwoofer 😀
I've seen a few different options online like the Troels designs but some kit form SB versions too that don't look to bad.
Keep in mind that it is not a "2-way Elsinore surround speaker" unless Joe says so.
My first posts to this thread were to request a crossover for a 2-way Elsinore speaker. I was told that I was not welcome here.
Thanks DT
A long time ago Joe posted the design for a JR mini in this thread. However it hasn't really been updated, and I don't think represents the current state of the art. I very much would like to see an updated version that uses the learnings since then but when and if that happens is very much up to Joe.
I skimmed the last couple of pages of this thread as well as the customanalogue website looking for the plans for building the waveguide. It seems to be a conical profile but are there any more specific details about the design? Thank you!
Yes, I am still hugely out of pocket getting them made, indeed I was given a loan by a fellow to get the last batch made and I have about half of the two hundred left and we are talking about thousands of dollars. Nobody is going to say I did this to make money.
There is one other advantage. When Joel Wesseling (in Canada) was making them out of aluminium for some years, when he decided it was time to let somebody else take responsibility, and at that time it was hoped that they would be made by a volunteer in Sweden. But sadly, that felt through. It was at this point that I decided to step in. I got in touch with a design engineer friend of mine and together we came up with a much improved version. Particularly the fit in the throat part was fine tuned with a much sharper and snug fit into the beveled part of the D2608 tweeter. But I don't have those drawings but we are left with the CNC files that are at the engineering company. I don't actually have the final drawings, in fact I have never seen them. But the waveguides work and they can still be made.
Yes, there are some drawings going back. But they are not the latest improved version. I have that somewhere on a hard drive and if you want me to, I can find it.
There is one other advantage. When Joel Wesseling (in Canada) was making them out of aluminium for some years, when he decided it was time to let somebody else take responsibility, and at that time it was hoped that they would be made by a volunteer in Sweden. But sadly, that felt through. It was at this point that I decided to step in. I got in touch with a design engineer friend of mine and together we came up with a much improved version. Particularly the fit in the throat part was fine tuned with a much sharper and snug fit into the beveled part of the D2608 tweeter. But I don't have those drawings but we are left with the CNC files that are at the engineering company. I don't actually have the final drawings, in fact I have never seen them. But the waveguides work and they can still be made.
Yes, there are some drawings going back. But they are not the latest improved version. I have that somewhere on a hard drive and if you want me to, I can find it.
Hi, just to share my recently completed Elsinore. This build is version MFC, mainly because I collected the parts since 2017 but I only managed to complete it recently. It uses the earlier waveguide sourced from Joe, made from what could be HDPE (I stand corrected), the material is dense, sonically inert and the throat fits the tweeter perfectly. I highly recommended getting this!
I made a few deviations, for example the crossover is mounted on the rear baffle. Initially the crossover is wired p2p, but I eventually made a custom PCB for aesthetic reason. The baffle is veneered instead of ‘the standard’ gloss paint. I believe this does alter the character a bit however the matte veneer finish is easier to maintain. I’ve also added protection screen which is normally not mounted.
What I find the most interesting aspect of the design is Joe’s philosophy to crossover design, this is refreshing but regretfully many debates I believe are coming from keyboard warriors. I adopt hands on approach-just build it and try. First I omitted the resonant compensation for the woofers, it sounds like any normal bass reflex, warm round notes, the port tuning is not sluggish or distorted but pleasant enough to be enjoyed. When the compensation network is wired up the bass is tighter controlled, each notes have dynamic contrast which is most discerning on acoustic bass like ‘Spanish Harlem’.
By mistake I initially wired the tweeter with wrong polarity, nothing sounds discerningly wrong except a bit dark sound. However after correcting this, there is better low level details at low volumes and a deeper soundstage. I can give my thumbs up to the ‘Renegade Tweeter’ theory.
From my subjective comparison with commercial speakers, the Elsinore can stand heads on with 10-20K USD range. But where this design stands unique in a class of its own, is the true ability to produce deep bass and control from low powered tube amp. To my knowledge no high end speakers are made for tube amps anymore (aside from the horn, but that is another direction in sound). This puppies have no problem producing bass notes from Metallica with speed and musically.
I’ve been reading on the design since day 1, only to lose track on the more recent upgrades to Purifi drivers. Special thanks to Joe for generously sharing the fantastic design and making it accessible, and his tireless decade of refinement from the original design concept! Joe, if you are ever in KL Malaysia please drop me a message for free beer.
I made a few deviations, for example the crossover is mounted on the rear baffle. Initially the crossover is wired p2p, but I eventually made a custom PCB for aesthetic reason. The baffle is veneered instead of ‘the standard’ gloss paint. I believe this does alter the character a bit however the matte veneer finish is easier to maintain. I’ve also added protection screen which is normally not mounted.
What I find the most interesting aspect of the design is Joe’s philosophy to crossover design, this is refreshing but regretfully many debates I believe are coming from keyboard warriors. I adopt hands on approach-just build it and try. First I omitted the resonant compensation for the woofers, it sounds like any normal bass reflex, warm round notes, the port tuning is not sluggish or distorted but pleasant enough to be enjoyed. When the compensation network is wired up the bass is tighter controlled, each notes have dynamic contrast which is most discerning on acoustic bass like ‘Spanish Harlem’.
By mistake I initially wired the tweeter with wrong polarity, nothing sounds discerningly wrong except a bit dark sound. However after correcting this, there is better low level details at low volumes and a deeper soundstage. I can give my thumbs up to the ‘Renegade Tweeter’ theory.
From my subjective comparison with commercial speakers, the Elsinore can stand heads on with 10-20K USD range. But where this design stands unique in a class of its own, is the true ability to produce deep bass and control from low powered tube amp. To my knowledge no high end speakers are made for tube amps anymore (aside from the horn, but that is another direction in sound). This puppies have no problem producing bass notes from Metallica with speed and musically.
I’ve been reading on the design since day 1, only to lose track on the more recent upgrades to Purifi drivers. Special thanks to Joe for generously sharing the fantastic design and making it accessible, and his tireless decade of refinement from the original design concept! Joe, if you are ever in KL Malaysia please drop me a message for free beer.
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skyraider,
Congratulations on competing your build - the speakers look beautiful in the veneer you have chosen.
My understanding is that gloss finish or matte - it will not affect the sound of the speakers. 🙂
IIRC Joe's waveguides are made of a material called Acetal / Delrin; I agree, the units feel solid in the hand and the finish is very nice too.
Congratulations on competing your build - the speakers look beautiful in the veneer you have chosen.
My understanding is that gloss finish or matte - it will not affect the sound of the speakers. 🙂
IIRC Joe's waveguides are made of a material called Acetal / Delrin; I agree, the units feel solid in the hand and the finish is very nice too.
@skyraider Beautiful looking build! The cabinets look deeper than standard in your pictures - is that right?
First: WOW! What a beautiful build. Love the grain.
Some time ago I ran some simulations in 'SoundEasy' that revealed, backed up by real numbers, that any change in dB-SPL was directly linked in to any change in the current through the voice coil. They, current and SPL, were locked together. Now it is no hard to figure out that those compensation networks, each one is tuned to a frequency. It goes without saying that when the summed impedance is made flat, that there is far more current going through the LCR compensation network at that tuned frequency, than current going through the voice coil. In fact many times more current. Now I will just leave it there by raising the thought, as to what that does to the dynamic stability of the system and that the bass tightens up, becomes more tuneful and noticeable better dynamic contrasts. Maybe hint that 'SoundEasy' thinks it is dealing with a nominal driver with perfect behaviour, when in fact the driver is not like that and that it is one thing to point out how things ought to behave and how they actually behave. Stabilise the current and you will hear a difference. I encourage others to try do the same.
So thanks to pointing to that area, and that it isn't just about getting a flatter and prettier impedance curve (which some have said and yes it does look pretty, lol). There is, I believe, underlying stuff going one that it yet to be fully appreciated. In the meantime I just tell people, as far as possible, make the amplifier produce the same current into all frequencies and the Elsinores pretty much does that from 25-30 Hertz and up.
So I hope you will have many happy hours of listening and that I might also add, as you change equipment, and we all end up spending more don't we, then the Elsinores will step up with those changes. Also, later you have the option, even if it is not cheap, to try using the Miflex, a lot cheaper than going to the Purifi drivers. Cheers.
https://viawave.sk/en/product_145w_8
Joe, what do you think of the above tweeter as an upgrade/alternative to the Scan-Speak? 8ohm, 95dB, waveguide and a rising response to 3kHz. 🙂
Joe, what do you think of the above tweeter as an upgrade/alternative to the Scan-Speak? 8ohm, 95dB, waveguide and a rising response to 3kHz. 🙂
Re Satori, yes the MW16P-8 driver looks very good. But right now cannot make any promises.
Ribbon tweeters can be highly problematic, but that example might work. But also, not in the frame right now. The D2608 tweeter with waveguide and used the right way, has incredibly low distortion. It measures and sound equally good. Every time I have tried an alternative, I just keep going back to it. So in my mine it has yet to be dethroned. 🤔
Ribbon tweeters can be highly problematic, but that example might work. But also, not in the frame right now. The D2608 tweeter with waveguide and used the right way, has incredibly low distortion. It measures and sound equally good. Every time I have tried an alternative, I just keep going back to it. So in my mine it has yet to be dethroned. 🤔
It's about average for this type of driver. The "W" version in the Purifi range is not much better. But I do otherwise agree with you.
I has been a long time coming, but I finally got to work on the Gallery, so please take a look:
GALLERY
Now that it is that, it is now easy to add to it. If there are any errors or if you want the 'name' changed to your actual name, year (location is good too) and so on, please let me know. It is now sure to grow as I go through records that I have here. Please feel free to submit, but the photos must be of decent quality and please also allow me to have Editor's final authority.
If you have submitted earlier and it somehow got missed, please feel free to submit again so that nobody gets left out.
GALLERY
Now that it is that, it is now easy to add to it. If there are any errors or if you want the 'name' changed to your actual name, year (location is good too) and so on, please let me know. It is now sure to grow as I go through records that I have here. Please feel free to submit, but the photos must be of decent quality and please also allow me to have Editor's final authority.
If you have submitted earlier and it somehow got missed, please feel free to submit again so that nobody gets left out.