Have you tried the new Topping D90 III Discrete? Now, that may be a pretty good dac. Initial reports are that its pretty darn good for $1k.
Regarding the pretty good for $100, that's easy to believe. But what does it mean? The discrete Topping is pretty good for $1k too. BTW, its not my intention to attack you. Its just that I think your experience is probably limited, unless maybe you've had an opportunity to listen to systems much better than yours?
I don't refer to ASR measurements for evidence of audible transparency or similar performance claims.
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We're working on it. Go read about MarcelvdG's RTZ dac, and the General Purpose Clock Board thread. Also the Simple DSD Converter (aka PCM2DSD). Marcel started work on a discrete output stage for the dac. Other things are also in the works, such as a sigma-delta PWM modulator from Marcel.
These all-things-to-all-men projects tend not to go anywhere probably because they seek to go everywhere.
Because its a USB powered dac that measures okay when powered by an AP analyzer to start with. Do you think for $100 the noise skirts look good because of really low noise Vref and very low phase noise clocking? Probably not, and Topping knows it. Even for their new flagship D90 III Discrete dac they say the jitter number comes from measurements commonly used by "current measurement websites." Hopefully we all know that means J-test.
Here is what one of our fellow members said about that:
They may be near perfect at J-test but jitter graphs at ASR reviews are quite useless for evaluating random jitter or close-in phase noise.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...llator-does-it-reduce-thd.396013/post-7273759
Yes that was about the subject a few pages ago. Your timing needs a better XO.
It is about some that think everyone should design all by oneself instead of buying fine and affordable chinese DACs as that is bad (or non DIY or whatever) and the worst one can feed to APs versus pretty perfect on graphs but unobtainable, hardly reproducible and never finished one offs that practically no one can hear nor can judge. To many readers that is about having real devices versus looking at virtual reality. Complaining about people buying fine ready made stuff while not offering an alternative is a bit sad.
It is about some that think everyone should design all by oneself instead of buying fine and affordable chinese DACs as that is bad (or non DIY or whatever) and the worst one can feed to APs versus pretty perfect on graphs but unobtainable, hardly reproducible and never finished one offs that practically no one can hear nor can judge. To many readers that is about having real devices versus looking at virtual reality. Complaining about people buying fine ready made stuff while not offering an alternative is a bit sad.
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No, it's about going major OT. Like OT on forum level. But everyone here at this forum should think about designing / building one themselves - I think this is the intention here. I'm surprised the some with a very long history haven't grasped this .... yet.
How do I build one vs. which one shall I buy.... on is forum OT and one is not.
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Yeah, good night from the “some” you don’t dare to speak directly to. Beware of the noise skirts!
I already apologized, and I'd delete my posts but it had already gone past the 10 minute limit.
I didn't land on the original post or read enough before speaking. This was my mistake. I saw the title and expected the poster was looking for something VERY inexpensive.
Anyway - Thank you for making it clear that you're exactly the type of person I have no interest in interacting with further.
I didn't land on the original post or read enough before speaking. This was my mistake. I saw the title and expected the poster was looking for something VERY inexpensive.
Anyway - Thank you for making it clear that you're exactly the type of person I have no interest in interacting with further.
Exactly. With ZERO knowledge of my background, or what my personal system is. This holier than thou attitude is exactly why I stay off forums. - I'll see myself out of this discussion.
No. It includes Vref noise. Both types of noise affect a dac, as they are part of the essential dac time and voltage references every dac must have. The skirts are the result the noises being convolved with a test tone being played by a dac. I find it hard to believe you haven't picked up these things by now.
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There isn't anything on a DACs analog output that is called Vref noise. Vref noise is noise present on vRef pins on a DAC chip.
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In the same way as Jitter and close-in-phase noise are properties of a clock and not something on the analog outputs of a DAC.
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I do miss the abundance of inexpensive kit AK boards that were available 5-10 years ago. They were far from perfect but could shine with some attention to power supplies, passives, output filter etc.
Now there’s next to nothing like that, and the few left are nothing I would consider. I thought AK was back in the game, so what happened to the cheep boards for the diy bodger crowd?
Not comparing to bruzzi whatever or anything, heaven forbid.
Now there’s next to nothing like that, and the few left are nothing I would consider. I thought AK was back in the game, so what happened to the cheep boards for the diy bodger crowd?
Not comparing to bruzzi whatever or anything, heaven forbid.
The harshness mostly comes from inferior power supply, rail regulation, and noise in general. This is staying in the around $100 realm of thinking.
You can improve on the above through DIY. However, building a good-quality power supply can be at least four times more expensive than the DAC... more, depending on how far you want to go. At that point, you'd want to upgrade the DAC.. 🙂... and then the rest of your system.
DACs with built-in PEQ might be an interesting solution for colouring the sound to your needs... to prevent that ear bleed you referred to in post No1 while staying at around $200-300, with no DIY garnishing/valve-like sound plugins required... WiiM Pro / WiiM Pro Plus..?
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