It raises an interesting thing. Placebo for cars, but for aeroplanes, a clean, polished airliner does use noticeably less fuel, around 1%...
This is an audio forum so we normally deal with audio, and the fact is, it's used widely in the field, even in a slightly different sense to a strict medical definition, and none of us get to dictate that, for better or worse. All we can do is live with it, since trying to impose something different will achieve even less than it does when people try to do the same for, say, 'transmission line'.
Sure, since in many cases the conditions are different. Drugs trials are an obvious example, which are generally the opposite of the short term individual nature of audio / acoustics double-blind testing where rapid changes are made (or in some tests stated to be made). There is plenty of crossover where the audio & medical converge, since it's all ultimately acoustics; Toole's summeries of testing on sensitivity to phase &c. are a good place to start on that for non-medical researchers; Gerzon's work on ambisonics and prior research on matrixed signals and perception, to pull a few randomly off the virtual shelf, are others. The differences are generally prioritisation.
^ Agreed 100% per usual. My only "gripe" if you will, is that when some people use the term placebo effect, it's not a "subtle" change in the definition. They ignore, deny, or are unaware that there is an actual effect, by definition. Some (not necessarily you) substitute it in place of "there cannot be any perceived difference", which frankly is the polar opposite. It can cause (at best) confusion and sadly, impassioned arguments (not the good kind when people learn from each other).
Yes, I’m afraid so. Since most if not all circuits in an audio system are AC that doesn’t bode well for the sound if wire is not controlled for directionality. All wire. The wire in speaker wiring, interconnects, transformers, speaker cables, power cords, digital cable, fuses, etc.
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^ HUH?! What you talkin' 'bout geoffkait? Please don't answer that here b/c that may steer the thread wildly off topic, but if you have a link to some other thread or resources that substantiate what I think (for now) is an utterly absurd claim, I'd love to read it/them. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "directionality". It could be one of those things where I may use a more "strict" definition, and you mean something completely different.
When I use the word directionality I mean the wire or cable sounds better in one direction than it does in the other direction. In the wrong direction the wire or cable or fuse, etc. sounds strained, incoherent, bass shy, unnatural, two dimensional. The problem is not only cables, it’s all wire, wire capacitors, transformers, electronics internal wiring, etc.
^ I don't have time to go down that rabbit hole. We can peacefully coexist; you with your beliefs and I with mine. Don't want to derail the thread. I've learned a lot about bi-wiring etc.
Oh I love this. Where in the cable factory they build or test the directionality in the cable. And are you sure the arrows are painted in the correct direction when leaving the factory?
I am 100% convinced that you hear the difference when the cables are connected with the arrows connected in reverse. And I am also sure you still are convinced the cable sound better with the arrows in the correct direction. Even if they were painted on in reverse in the factory.
Not that I stayed totally on-topic. 😉
You have repeated this mantra over and over again without providing any credible evidence to support your claims.
Do you really think people will naively take your word for it?
depends on the grain structure of the material and if the sheilding is only connection at one end... i suppose
I’m referring to unshielded cables, shielding is a separate issue. The physical and electrical asymmetry of wire is the culprit. You don’t have to take my word for it, simply reverse your interconnects or speaker cables. Try it both ways, select the direction that sounds full, correct and undistorted. Easy, peasy. Of course directionality is not a new subject, AudioQuest began controlling their cables for directionality 25 years ago. Direction of wire and direction of shielding are both important.
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Good gracious - scientists / engineers may believe things based upon scientific study / data. Two engineers presented with the same set of "facts" / data may come to different conclusions ergo believe different things. Engineering / Science is rarely absolute. Some people choose to believe things based upon faith. I have no issue either way.
Disengaging from you... cheers!
Good gracious yourself. If you’re prending to be an engineer/scientist you’re not doing a very good job.
Headphones don't allow the sound to have enough flight time, i.e. they negate the space...and they, space and time, go altogether.
Since sound is a slow propagation phenomenon....
You believe this marketing trick. Not a single measurement, they even admit they can't explain it, yet they mark the cables with a arrow.
https://www.audioquest.com/blogs/theory-education/cable-directionality-its-all-about-noise
Please don't get personal when you are confronted with facts that you cannot or do not want to refute.
Yeah, it’s the pure ‘Looney Tunes’ science like your unique understanding that one wire caries positive signal halfwave and another caries negative halfwave.
Gee, after all this time you still don’t get it. One wire pushes the diaphragm out, the other wire pulls it back in. There are a few ways to look at the way the 2 wires work in an AC circuit, you chose the wrong way.
People believe things because they’re conditioned to believe them. Aldous Huxley
One pill makes you tall, one pill makes you small, the ones your mother gives you don’t do anything at all.
People believe things because they’re conditioned to believe them. Aldous Huxley
One pill makes you tall, one pill makes you small, the ones your mother gives you don’t do anything at all.
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Moderator, Voltage drop differences across wire for both directions have been measured. They were measured by an independent lab hired by HiFi Tuning in Germany, an audiophile fuse manufacturer, some years ago. If you’re interested I can link those tests. What they showed is Resistivity is slightly lower in the “correct direction.” And that direction is audible. The phenomenon of Wire directionality is predictable, repeatable and transferrable. The only trick involved is how to control the cables for directionality during manufacture.
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I'm well aware of this test, we discussed this in the past.
- https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/used-cable-or-new-diy-cable.400629/post-7392848
Repeating it won't change the fact that the test is fundamentally flawed.
There's no need to derail this thread with it.
All I can say is that we both live in a different world.
- https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/used-cable-or-new-diy-cable.400629/post-7392848
Repeating it won't change the fact that the test is fundamentally flawed.
There's no need to derail this thread with it.
All I can say is that we both live in a different world.
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