@Hondasnl, I would love to hear your thoughts on the bass of the clone, how does the 'musicality' compare to the massive towers? I always felt the bass output from the Pencil design was really harmonious and more like an instrument, natural, full, but not overly forced. Probably missing a few Db at 30Hz though.
I hope so 😉 -Pensil 10.3 for e.g. is (by design) about 12dB down at 30Hz, anechoic. Maximum extension wasn't a design goal for the Pensil range so outright maximal extension is sacrified for acoustic efficiency and a less reactive load.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks @Scottmoose
If I am not completely wrong most of the listening rooms cannot handle the lowest frequencies. That’s why I don’t have understand why people are often so obsessed about. Pump the room full with 20 Hz, overload it and stample bass traps in the room to compensate it.
Bear in mind a 30 Hz wave is around 11 meters (37 feet) long. And, which type of music or instrument delivers lower than 30 Hz. It’s only an organ, an octabass or bass flute or any of its derivatives
If I am not completely wrong most of the listening rooms cannot handle the lowest frequencies. That’s why I don’t have understand why people are often so obsessed about. Pump the room full with 20 Hz, overload it and stample bass traps in the room to compensate it.
Bear in mind a 30 Hz wave is around 11 meters (37 feet) long. And, which type of music or instrument delivers lower than 30 Hz. It’s only an organ, an octabass or bass flute or any of its derivatives
They can & they can't (to coin a phrase). Depends how you classifying it. A lot of smaller rooms don't have the space to support a full wavelength, but that doesn't mean you can't hear it. Assuming an SoS of 1140ft/sec, then if that were the case, you'd struggle to hear anything below 114Hz in a 10ft room
You still do (well, 'can' 😉 ) hear lower frequencies, even if the room dimensions are smaller than the full wavelength. The modes can be more problematic though, & a killer also tends to be the fact that most spaces leak LF like a sieve, either because the boundaries are more or less transparent to wavelengths that long, general pressure loss from leakage (doors, windows & the ilk). That's one area car audio potentially scores over ordinary rooms -it can be easier to seal the damn things up a bit.
You still do (well, 'can' 😉 ) hear lower frequencies, even if the room dimensions are smaller than the full wavelength. The modes can be more problematic though, & a killer also tends to be the fact that most spaces leak LF like a sieve, either because the boundaries are more or less transparent to wavelengths that long, general pressure loss from leakage (doors, windows & the ilk). That's one area car audio potentially scores over ordinary rooms -it can be easier to seal the damn things up a bit.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, for off axis positions. But can’t we hear all these LF stuff seated in front of the speakers? - the anechoic or near field performance
Scott, regarding the practicalities of deep bass in real world rooms, do you have any thoughts to share or experience with Trinnov’s Waveforming technology?
Scottmoose
Can you make the tuning a little deeper on a pencil box? Reduce the area of the opening?
Can you make the tuning a little deeper on a pencil box? Reduce the area of the opening?
Next you should try the Alpair 7 (MAOP?) in a pensil. The bass is almost better(I think the 7's go lower but less power handling? @planet10 has mentioned this a ton) and the mids/highs are much more detailed airy.
If you in the mood for experimenting I wonder how good a sealed 7 MAOP in 11 Litres or so would sound onto of those woofer towers crossed above 200Hz...Can you actively choose the XO's?
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, size of driver is not a direct indicator of bass extension.
Ignoring A12pw, some examples of the ones i am familair with A10.2 has the greatest potential bass extention (probably teh closest stock driver to that in Sibelius), EL70/Pluvia 7 next.
A10.3 exchanged bass for gretaer sensitivity, more control up top, and greater midrange/top definition/DDR. Similar with A7.1/2 to7.3,
A7ms has more potential than A11ms.
The number of times i have seen the comment, “wow, those small drivers sure doi bass” is quite large. One of the moist memorable was Mark Fenlon on hearing FHXL with A10PeN. He was stunned at how low his driver could go.
But even with thw help of the enclosure, a small driver will not (usually) move more air than a much larger driver. But enuff to be very satisfying for many.
dave
Ignoring A12pw, some examples of the ones i am familair with A10.2 has the greatest potential bass extention (probably teh closest stock driver to that in Sibelius), EL70/Pluvia 7 next.
A10.3 exchanged bass for gretaer sensitivity, more control up top, and greater midrange/top definition/DDR. Similar with A7.1/2 to7.3,
A7ms has more potential than A11ms.
The number of times i have seen the comment, “wow, those small drivers sure doi bass” is quite large. One of the moist memorable was Mark Fenlon on hearing FHXL with A10PeN. He was stunned at how low his driver could go.
But even with thw help of the enclosure, a small driver will not (usually) move more air than a much larger driver. But enuff to be very satisfying for many.
dave
No direct experience with it unfortunately (funds / total lack thereof), but it seems to be trying something similar (not the same) to DIRAC. All good from my POV, although the Harman configurations seem to do a good job in themselves, so I sometimes wonder, beyond the practicalities, how much of step it would make. Hopefully be able to find out some point later this year.
I think you might have misunderstood what I wrote. The second sentence is actually what I said 😉 (short version: yes, you can, to a point). The first has nothing really to do with what I was talking about.
The pensils are designed for a fairly specific alignment / target goals, so altering this to a point defeats the object. I've done plenty of other lower tuned MLTL variations though; most are lurking on the Markaudio site or in my Misc. designs thread.
Swapping the drivers from 10.3 -> 10.2 🙂.
Now let them play for several days.
The bass is already fine 👍.
Attachments
So many different systems !!!!
I may have missed it, how do you feel about your Sibelius clone ?
I may have missed it, how do you feel about your Sibelius clone ?