Well, when it comes to design goals, the physical proportions (from an aesthetic perspective) and the alignment (from a predominantly acoustic) have a significant impact. In the case of the latter, they can be quite different depending on the goals.
To take the pensils as an example, as I've often said, when I designed them, I had a number of criteria in mind: a slightly higher tuning frequency than average, broader band, higher gain (hybrid trad. pro-audio alignment), combined with a relatively unreactive, trad. TL style impedance load characteristic, and the ability to adapt tuning to given acoustic conditions via adjusting the packing density (and to a point location), hence all are designed with a removable rear baffle, like many traditional QW and BR enclosures, which it's a hybridisation of. They all track a specific Vb & tuning alignment I created. This isn't to say they're 'better' or 'worse' than anything: just that's what they are, and they are what they are. Other designs, e.g. Eland differ in not having the same trad-pro style broader BW gain, not emphasising a reduced load reactance, sometimes being more compact in footprint, having less built-in adjustability, but are tuned lower (Silbelius is also tuned lower than the 10.3 pensil, and being a commercial speaker also 'is what it is' in terms of being a fixed alignment since it's not aimed at DIYers). And so on & so forth. There's often a lot of object-flexibility even within a given general type of enclosure, let alone different loads with different drivers.
Nurse! 😉
To take the pensils as an example, as I've often said, when I designed them, I had a number of criteria in mind: a slightly higher tuning frequency than average, broader band, higher gain (hybrid trad. pro-audio alignment), combined with a relatively unreactive, trad. TL style impedance load characteristic, and the ability to adapt tuning to given acoustic conditions via adjusting the packing density (and to a point location), hence all are designed with a removable rear baffle, like many traditional QW and BR enclosures, which it's a hybridisation of. They all track a specific Vb & tuning alignment I created. This isn't to say they're 'better' or 'worse' than anything: just that's what they are, and they are what they are. Other designs, e.g. Eland differ in not having the same trad-pro style broader BW gain, not emphasising a reduced load reactance, sometimes being more compact in footprint, having less built-in adjustability, but are tuned lower (Silbelius is also tuned lower than the 10.3 pensil, and being a commercial speaker also 'is what it is' in terms of being a fixed alignment since it's not aimed at DIYers). And so on & so forth. There's often a lot of object-flexibility even within a given general type of enclosure, let alone different loads with different drivers.
Nurse! 😉
@vinylkid58
Actually, I knew that. I'm sure they sound much more neutral if lacking somewhat in warmth and colour.
I had not seen that review though. Good one. Thanks.
Years ago I watched a fascinating TV program on violin construction. The fellow building the violins claimed he could make a cheap violin sound just like a Strad by manipulating the sound post. I don't imagine he meant literally any cheap instrument... but in the same vein, if one wants the sound of a Sibelius one could align and tweak to get there even if the box looked more Terry Cain (Festival) than Harley Lovegrove (Pensil). Or Frugel Horn XL.
Actually, I knew that. I'm sure they sound much more neutral if lacking somewhat in warmth and colour.
I had not seen that review though. Good one. Thanks.
Years ago I watched a fascinating TV program on violin construction. The fellow building the violins claimed he could make a cheap violin sound just like a Strad by manipulating the sound post. I don't imagine he meant literally any cheap instrument... but in the same vein, if one wants the sound of a Sibelius one could align and tweak to get there even if the box looked more Terry Cain (Festival) than Harley Lovegrove (Pensil). Or Frugel Horn XL.
And cost more than the wooden one. Wondering; if Sibelius with alpair 10 cost over £5000, what will be commercial price of Super Pensils 12?
My comment to using Oak as the cabinet material is that its pulling on peoples heart string. It adds nothing (or shouldn't) to the acoustic profile of the loudspeaker as a whole. Its not an instrument, quite the opposite. Don't get me wrong, I love wood and working with wood, but one also have to draw the line where it is useful or not. The Sibelius CG-L is made from 24 ply, 3cm thick, Baltic birch, which I reckon is due to ease of production in order to maintain the same dimensions and tuning.
And also, yes, Harley had the right to develop the loudspeaker as he saw fit and he ended up with a very nice construction and yes, one can use Oak if one so desire, but one doesn't have to and end up with the same product non the less 😉
And also, yes, Harley had the right to develop the loudspeaker as he saw fit and he ended up with a very nice construction and yes, one can use Oak if one so desire, but one doesn't have to and end up with the same product non the less 😉
But free to use for all non-commercial undertakings.
I never did have a business brain -no wonder I'm up to the thorax as far as finances go. Still, £5,500 (gross) income per annum is better than nothing.
I never did have a business brain -no wonder I'm up to the thorax as far as finances go. Still, £5,500 (gross) income per annum is better than nothing.
Scott, unfortunately it's the way of the world. George Westinghouse walked away rich, Nicola Tesla poor.
Nothing wrong with that: it's a commercial product. Value is not necessarily synonymous with price, and people value different things. If we didn't, we'd all have MDF / particleboard furniture and Bose wave radios hewn from a solid block of pure plastic. Which is why I've said that comparisons are to a large extent missing the point, because they're not aimed at the same people or same market as DIY designs from dregs like myself.
It isn't, which is why I've already pointed out they spent a long time on the construction, material selection (yes, they have to select it) etc. to avoid unwanted panel colouration.
Common sense to use the same physical proportions, and sheet material is more consistent taken at large than timber so less time needed to select, season, seal etc. material.
Untrue unless you happen to know the full internal & external dimensions, tuning, have the same drive units, and are aiming to produce something geared to the same commercial market audience. You can make a very nice speaker of the type -nobody is disagreeing with that, and you may even build something you prefer to the Sibelius. That doesn't make it the same product though.
The beauty of DIY, talent isn't wasted, we get to have audio equipment that equals commercial for a fraction of the price. If we don't like the sound we change it.
Like many of you I spent years honing my skills and best yet we get to learn from each other.
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Very true. But with a few exceptions like Tesla (and a few good friends, including some here), I suspect most people tend to get what they deserve, at least in our prosperous societies. That certainly applies to me -I'm very lucky to have even that much, so in all fairness, I can't complain.
Scott, after 78 plus years on this planet I have to disagree with you, life isn't fair. I've seen monsters get away with horrible acts their whole life with no repercussions.
I don't think Harley is in that boat, I think he's very generous with his time and expertise, by the way. Some good guys do well but a good amount of horrible people also do we'll. I remember talking to an insurance investigator once. He told me more than once someone pushed their mother down the basement steps and walked away with mom's money.
I don't think Harley is in that boat, I think he's very generous with his time and expertise, by the way. Some good guys do well but a good amount of horrible people also do we'll. I remember talking to an insurance investigator once. He told me more than once someone pushed their mother down the basement steps and walked away with mom's money.
You're probably right; in truth I'm a natural cynic, but the negativity doesn't do much good for the old equilibrium, so I try to think the opposite.
Harley's definitely one of the decent people in the commercial world though, I completely agree. It could do with a few more like him and his family.
Harley's definitely one of the decent people in the commercial world though, I completely agree. It could do with a few more like him and his family.
4-5k is just a big swallow for most of us.
Now, offer a flat pack, we build with clamps, we buy drivers, we buy components if want a notch filter, now you have something over this side of the pond.
Now, offer a flat pack, we build with clamps, we buy drivers, we buy components if want a notch filter, now you have something over this side of the pond.
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It's all very subjective of course, but for what it's worth I've just reverted to the cheapest of the umpteen pairs of speakers I have here: the Focal Micro-Utopias were well into the £000s if memory serves, as were a couple of the others, but none compares in the mid-range to MAOP drivers transplanted into a pair of s/h frugalhorns. Their looks are, to put it politely, an acquired taste but for just a few hundred pounds nothing else gives me quite as much listening pleasure as these. A superb bargain.
(I did hear a pair of Sibelius some time ago but they cannot have been properly set up/partnered - they made no impression at all.)
(I did hear a pair of Sibelius some time ago but they cannot have been properly set up/partnered - they made no impression at all.)
There’s more to the story of Nikolas Tesla’s long decline and sad ending than just that he was taken advantage of by either George or Thomas; although definitely to a degree by the latter.