Defiantely. It's still budget with the non mouser priced muses02's and 5 pound for the wima caps.
18 pounds for the fx audio tube 03 from aliexpress lol.
18 pounds for the fx audio tube 03 from aliexpress lol.
Last edited:
Actually, SOICs are easy to solder with a bent tip on the soldering iron. Like these from METCAL:
I'm not a huge fan of hot plate soldering. I'd be concerned about cooking the board (either the solder mask on the side that touches the hot plate or the fibreglass itself). I prefer convection reflow. Hot air tool or toaster oven.
And, yeah... You can make the adapters yourself. But why bother when the $10 kit from TI comes with everything you need. You'd be hard pressed to make it your self for that unless you're willing to mess with ferric chloride and etch your own boards. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I did that until the various low-cost outfits like OSH Park and now Digikey Red popped up.
Tom
I don't see how oven differs than hotplate regarding your worries. It touches heated up surface either way. As for hot air, it is made for desoldering, why people use it for soldering is something i'll never understand. I've done so many hotplate soldering, haven't had an issue once. If it has pins protruding from the side, yeah, it's easy with soldering station, but if it has pads below, not so much..
Well USA shipping to europe is insane, so thats what makes those expensive. And there is no muses05 footprint on that kit. Plus it's much more fun to make your own, as well as educative.
Well USA shipping to europe is insane, so thats what makes those expensive. And there is no muses05 footprint on that kit. Plus it's much more fun to make your own, as well as educative.
Mouser stocks it in august, so i don't know, as pictures are mostly 3D renders. But according to datasheet, they have pads below. Quite easy to solder on a hotplate or oven.
The $20k METCAL QFN/BGA reflow rework system we had where I used to work used hot air both on the bottom of the board and on the top. Unless METCAL misunderstood the concept I don't think your notion that hot air reflow is only for de-soldering holds water. The system was designed both for soldering and de-soldering of pin-less devices.
The reason we had that system installed, by the way, is that one of our apps engineers cooked an evaluation board by leaving it on the hot plate for too long. The board delaminated and the lab stunk like burnt fibreglass for a good week thereafter.
Leaded solder tends to melt around 181-190 ºC. Lead-free solder melts around 225 ºC. If you look at the recommended reflow curve for those types of solder you'll notice that the peak temperature during the dwell time needs to reach about 250-300 ºC. With a hotplate you're trying to do that by heating the top layer of copper through an insulator (fibreglass) with a glass temperature of 135 ºC (for cheap boards) to 170 ºC (for better boards). It doesn't take an advanced degree in rocket science to figure out that this is not the greatest idea even if it is possible. You either don't get good solder joints or you run a significant risk of destroying the board.
A better approach would be to use the hot plate (or air-based preheater) to heat the board to 100-120 ºC (below the glass temperature) from below. Then add hot air from the top to melt the solder and form good solder joints. Adjust the air flow and nozzle size such that you don't blow the parts off the board.
Ah. I missed that the MUSES05 is a QFN-style package. No leads.
On a different note: I find it interesting that the THD+N graphs for the MUSES05 were created with a 400 Hz - 22 kHz bandpass filter enabled. The 22 kHz I understand, but why 400 Hz? Are they a bit embarrassed by the rather high 1/f noise?
Tom
You are talking about commercial machines, and this is diy forum. No, i have had no bad soldering issues with all of my hotplate solders. Nor any board or component was damaged, delaminated, or in any case out of commision. I don't have rocket science degree, maybe just luck, who knows 🙂
Yeah, i planned to get it in august when it's in stock, test, see whats all the rave is about 🙂 Lot of smoke and mirrors in "audio" graded stuff.
Yeah, i planned to get it in august when it's in stock, test, see whats all the rave is about 🙂 Lot of smoke and mirrors in "audio" graded stuff.
Or, if the goal is to drive speakers, a tube amplifier with volume control like the Chinese kit that I built for only $400 USD, including tax, shipping, and minor upgrades:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...e-i-build-maybe-during-if-i-do.394962/page-12
I have two of the DACs below, which are great as they are with no modifications other than using them with an AC mains filter (Furman PL-8C), which is essential to clean up the sound:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802716154447.html
I have gently pried the Bluetooth chips off of both of them because I don't need or want Bluetooth in my DAC. RF where RF does not belong. They take four dual op-amps though, so putting Muses02 in them would be too expensive for me, even at the $19/each from AliExpress. Burr-Brown OPA2604 is working for me. 👍
ericwoosrarechips on Fee-Pay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/383205856207 I talked to him, and they seem to be genuine new-old-stock. Lots and lots and lots of fakes are available.
Total $500 USD later I have a great little DIY system. Four Muses02 from Mouser would add another $200 to a system that only cost $500 total.
Last edited:
I've heard about both of these products before.
The Chinese tube amp looks like a nifty piece of equipment that runs using actual tubes and not a masquerading chip amp. I actually learned about it from a Youtube channel as well, though not xraytonyb - it's Michael Beeny.
As for the DAC, it's an OK design for the price. And prying the BT chip...I'd say they are kind enough to provide Qualcomm...I tried living with a Chinese TPA 3116 amp with a "JL" BT chip for 2 weeks. What kills me is not the 16-bit 48KHz bitrate limit, but the "mosquito noise" sometimes audible 2 meters away from the speakers 😳 The terror of being besieged by tiny malaria carriers in the music room is reproduced quite realistically.
The Chinese tube amp looks like a nifty piece of equipment that runs using actual tubes and not a masquerading chip amp. I actually learned about it from a Youtube channel as well, though not xraytonyb - it's Michael Beeny.
As for the DAC, it's an OK design for the price. And prying the BT chip...I'd say they are kind enough to provide Qualcomm...I tried living with a Chinese TPA 3116 amp with a "JL" BT chip for 2 weeks. What kills me is not the 16-bit 48KHz bitrate limit, but the "mosquito noise" sometimes audible 2 meters away from the speakers 😳 The terror of being besieged by tiny malaria carriers in the music room is reproduced quite realistically.
The little "Huaji Audio" tube amp kit sounds great if built the way I described in the thread. It's not very powerful from 20Hz to 30Hz, but it's fine for me. I'm building a DynakitParts Dynaco ST-35 amp kit right now, which should be much more powerful, but which ended up costing $1,200 not $400. Quite a difference there.
It's interesting to note that it's about as good as the DAC that I have always liked best, which was one made by Proceed in the late 1980's. $1,900 back then vs. less than $100 now. My how technology evolves over time. I'm judging it only using the coaxial digital input as it's all I use. I'm quite happy with it after testing a few different op-amps in it. I have two of them now, one with the Burr-Brown OPA2604 chips and one with TI OPA1612.
I'm still curious about the bass and sub-bass with the Muses02 as I find that's the problem with other chips I have tried. Op-amps that are "open" and "transparent" and whatever else are fine and dandy, but if the bass and sub-bass are not there, jazz music is lifeless, and I won't listen to it.
It's interesting to note that it's about as good as the DAC that I have always liked best, which was one made by Proceed in the late 1980's. $1,900 back then vs. less than $100 now. My how technology evolves over time. I'm judging it only using the coaxial digital input as it's all I use. I'm quite happy with it after testing a few different op-amps in it. I have two of them now, one with the Burr-Brown OPA2604 chips and one with TI OPA1612.
I'm still curious about the bass and sub-bass with the Muses02 as I find that's the problem with other chips I have tried. Op-amps that are "open" and "transparent" and whatever else are fine and dandy, but if the bass and sub-bass are not there, jazz music is lifeless, and I won't listen to it.
No because I doubt my ability to solder them. My eyes aren't what they used to be and my hands aren't so steady any more. The thought of soldering 32 SMD pins intimidates me.
This guy makes it look so easy. He does it in exactly 3 minutes:
He has good eyes and a steady hand and a good soldering iron. I'd definitely need to invest in a new iron. My old one is on its last legs. After I finish my Dynaco ST-35 kit, I think it will see the trash can.
Is there a reputable source for them already soldered to adapters for DIP8 sockets? There are some on Fee-Pay but who knows if they are real.
Last edited:
There is a much easier solution to soldering soic8 than that video. Even with not so great eyes and hands 🙂 You need to focus on just soldering the one (1st) pin, then the last opposite side pin which is much easier now. Apply solid amout of flux, add little bit of solder to soldering iron tip and just drag it across the rest of the pins. Works flawless.
I'm still waiting for anyone to comment on the bass and sub-bass performance of the Muses02, even though I have pretty much decided that I'm not willing to pay for them.
I tried the Oracle II-02 op amps again last night, and I just can't understand them. Maybe they have some sort of compatibility problem with my little DAC. They just sounded lifeless last night. Whatever I played, it just sounded lifeless. So I plugged in the DAC that has the OPA1612's in it. I'd say they have a "clean" and "snappy" sound with a lot of dynamics, but the sub-bass is lacking. I'll try it again tonight and then try the Burr-Brown OPA2604 tomorrow for comparison.
How does OPA1656 "improve" upon the sound of OPA1612? I can get 4 from China for $19.82 USD already mounted, but who knows if they are legit or fakes.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803398583069.html
I tried the Oracle II-02 op amps again last night, and I just can't understand them. Maybe they have some sort of compatibility problem with my little DAC. They just sounded lifeless last night. Whatever I played, it just sounded lifeless. So I plugged in the DAC that has the OPA1612's in it. I'd say they have a "clean" and "snappy" sound with a lot of dynamics, but the sub-bass is lacking. I'll try it again tonight and then try the Burr-Brown OPA2604 tomorrow for comparison.
How does OPA1656 "improve" upon the sound of OPA1612? I can get 4 from China for $19.82 USD already mounted, but who knows if they are legit or fakes.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803398583069.html
Last edited:
To me, muses02 works it's magic in mid. And thats it. It's why i'm selling mine. But on the other hand, rest of the bjt opamps have failed in my sistem (i/v stage of a pcm63p dac, to be fair muses02 did stand above all bjt ones i tried), so there's that.
Opa1656 in my system is one closest to discrete opamp, and i swap to it from bursons periodically. Has that hefty bass no other ic opamp i tried has. And it's cheap, which is a cherry on top. 1612/1 was completely flat, clean but lacking in all segments.
But consider this is all in my setup, which probably differs a lot from yours. R2R nos dac on a purifi class D amplifier and compression speakers. Either way, they are so cheap i would try them.
Opa1656 in my system is one closest to discrete opamp, and i swap to it from bursons periodically. Has that hefty bass no other ic opamp i tried has. And it's cheap, which is a cherry on top. 1612/1 was completely flat, clean but lacking in all segments.
But consider this is all in my setup, which probably differs a lot from yours. R2R nos dac on a purifi class D amplifier and compression speakers. Either way, they are so cheap i would try them.
I don't worry about that as much as some other people do. If you compare op amp A to op amp B on your system, you are comparing apples to apples because nothing else is changing - it's still your system and you know what changes. So, if you hear stronger drive in the bass and sub-bass with A vs. B, that's an apples to apples comparison that likely translates to any other system. Where I do find an issue over the years is people who write rave reviews of something and then I find out that their speakers don't even reach the sub-bass! When I designed my speakers in 1993 (still using them, putting in all new drivers for the 4th time next month) my single biggest requirement was that they reach below 30 Hz without a separate subwoofer. The result was a very large 3-way floorstanding speaker with 91dB efficiency and a bottom end of about 26 Hz.
With that said about how we evaluate, I focus on this:
This is exactly what I do not want.
That is enough to make me spend $20 to try a set of them. I may just order from the Chinese link above and hope they are real. If I order from Digi-Key or Mouser, where is the cheapest and easiest way to get the adapters to make them fit into a DIP8 socket?
Last edited:
Don't risk it on chinese suppliers. It's cheap enough on mouser/digi.
https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DIP-ADAPTER-EVM?qs=T1E5mKGHTGV/fPkUlVRWNA==
Adapters here. So same order, cheaper saves on shipping.
https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DIP-ADAPTER-EVM?qs=T1E5mKGHTGV/fPkUlVRWNA==
Adapters here. So same order, cheaper saves on shipping.
I'd still have to buy the pins too. And a new soldering iron. And then figure out how to do it. Sigh. 🙁
I belive it comes with pins. At least thats what writes on TI website. I can help out but it will take about a month for my next big mouser order.
Then there is the price of overseas shipping to the USA.
The TI adapter boards cost more than the op amps, LOL. And there are only six of the right type per set.
Only $3.17 for the op amps at Mouser and $2.93 at DigiKey. Seems "too good to be true" at that low price. That's dirt cheap.
For anyone following along, the adapters from TI do appear to come with pins, per the TI website: