The op amps I have gotten from China over the past few months come mounted on these:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800075722457.html
A $1 USD each, the price is right. 👍
Total: $19.59 from DigiKey, with tax and shipping included, plus $4 for adapters from China = 4 op amps for $23.59
And I need a new soldering iron anyway.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800075722457.html
A $1 USD each, the price is right. 👍
Total: $19.59 from DigiKey, with tax and shipping included, plus $4 for adapters from China = 4 op amps for $23.59
And I need a new soldering iron anyway.
If you have solder-wick handy there's an even easier way: Solder two diagonal pins like you describe. Then without regard for solder bridges just solder the rest of the pins. You can even solder multiple pins at a time. Then clean up with solder wick. The wick (and flux within it) will remove the solder bridges between pins and leave enough solder between the pin and the pad for a good connection. I use this method for hand-soldering TQFPs where the pin pitch is so tight that solder bridges are inevitable.
Yep. The DIP-ADAPTER-EVM from TI comes with the adapters and the pins. The pins are nice, gold-plated, turned pins. I agree that if you only need the SOIC adapters then you can find cheaper solutions elsewhere. That's your choice. I prefer to buy a quality product.
Tom
Nice tip. Thanks!
For my first attempt at this, I think I'll keep it 100% as cheap as possible. There is a good chance that I won't even like them, or will destroy one or more in the process, but I love to experiment, so I can justify $23.59 to give it a try. I probably could sell them for more than that on Fee-pay if I don't like them,
I'll sell the Oracle II-02 since I don't like them at all. I still haven't reached a verdict on the OPA1612AIDGR OVII version. The first few times I listened, they sounded too "analog" to me, like they were stripping some detail and fattening the sound unnaturally, but now I'm not so sure. Will try them again at some point.
Based on the statements in the posts above, I am prepared to totally rule out the Muses02.
This's exactly what I worry about opamps.
It's so neat to be able to "change" the sound with tiny microelectronic parts, but I really do wonder if it's going to be worth it in the end or am I missing out on "better sound" by not using a (or 4, in this case) certain boutique op-amps costing an arm and a leg.
It's so neat to be able to "change" the sound with tiny microelectronic parts, but I really do wonder if it's going to be worth it in the end or am I missing out on "better sound" by not using a (or 4, in this case) certain boutique op-amps costing an arm and a leg.
This is why I am trying a variety of cheap ones in two identical DACs, They do sound different, and although I am no expert, it does seem somewhat to depend on circuit design not just the op amp itself. I'll keep several types on hand for future tests in other devices, so they won't go to waste.
Oracle II-02 (these I guess I will sell)
OPA1612
OPA1612AIDR OVII
Burr-Brown OPA2604
OPA1656
That's five tests, and that's enough for me. None of them were expensive, and they all do sound different. I'll keep the two that I like best in the two DACs and I can switch from one DAC to the other if I choose. I'm not going to shell out the cash for Muses02 if it's not spectacular in the bass and sub-bass because of the music I enjoy and having speakers that are capable of it. For someone with small bookshelf speakers, a different choice might be in order.
I ordered the cheap adapters from China. Next time I need something from Mouser or DigiKey, I'll get the OPA1656 and see if I can solder them successfully.
I don't see how the copper leads can be definitive as there is now way that there is a dedicated lead frame supplier and packager just for MUSES parts
I got a pair of pre-soldered 1656 for $7 from China a while back.
They had some crackpot soldering though, because all the DIP legs were slightly bent to the left. Shoddy packaging didn't help either.
After some manual bending and forcing into the op-amp socket they all worked fine.
Printing on the op-amps are a bit faint but I can still make out the Texas logo...
They had some crackpot soldering though, because all the DIP legs were slightly bent to the left. Shoddy packaging didn't help either.
After some manual bending and forcing into the op-amp socket they all worked fine.
Printing on the op-amps are a bit faint but I can still make out the Texas logo...
I’m considering making an adaptor for soic for a number of opamps - mainly for trying single/dual in quads - but with not only decoupling but filtering, regulator and caps etc on a 4 layer board. A 100x100 board will return a number of cut sub boards and a stack of them - useful for projects going forward 🙂
I got the 4x OPA1656 from DigiKey, then AliExpress screwed up my order for the adapter boards and only sent 2 instead of 4. 😡
For anyone interested, this is "the little DAC that could" https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...itive-volume-pot-on-chinese-dac.396291/page-3
Carefully pry off the Bluetooth chip. Install a logarithmic volume pot instead of linear, which requires patient desoldering. Use a genuine Apple USB charger to power it, plug that into a decent power filter (which you ought to do anyway), and be sure to grease that tiny USB-C connecter with No-Oxid electrical connection grease to prevent hum when there is a poor connection. If you have op amps that run hot like the OVII version of the 1612, perforate the top like I did. It has been fun fiddling with it, and it sounds fantastic for the $69 I paid.
I also use No-Oxid electrical connection protection grease on the pins of op-amps when there isn't a gold-to-gold, round pin-to-round socket. Ordinary IC pins going into the round gold sockets isn't ideal, and the grease helps protect that connection over time. It also makes insertion and removal a heck of a lot easier. Use it very sparingly, applying a tiny film with a toothpick.
I just ordered one of these on sale for fun: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803488001195.html
I ordered it with no Bluetooth and no USB so I don't have to remove those, and added the "upgrade" power transformer. They are putting the OPA1612 in it. We will see how it goes. The "Rod Rain" brand seems OK. AkLIAM Audio store on AliExpress is now having their name put on some instead of "Rod Rain."
Now I need adapter boards for the OPA1656 since AliExpress screwed up my order.
Interestingly, the op amp that I keep coming back to is the OVII version of the 1612 (OPA1612AIDRxx).
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805587834000.html
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa1612.pdf?HQS=dis-dk-null-digikeymode-dsf-pf-null-wwe&ts=1693210947704&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Fgeneral%2Fdocs%2Fsuppproductinfo.tsp%3FdistId%3D10%26gotoUrl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Flit%2Fgpn%2Fopa1612
It just has a "musical" feel to it. They ran so hot in the DAC though that I had to custom fabricate tiny heatsinks for them. I found that they just didn't sound as good when they were allowed to get so hot. I put them back in last night after several weeks of listening to other op amps. Listening to them right now in the background. Not bad.
For anyone interested, this is "the little DAC that could" https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...itive-volume-pot-on-chinese-dac.396291/page-3
Carefully pry off the Bluetooth chip. Install a logarithmic volume pot instead of linear, which requires patient desoldering. Use a genuine Apple USB charger to power it, plug that into a decent power filter (which you ought to do anyway), and be sure to grease that tiny USB-C connecter with No-Oxid electrical connection grease to prevent hum when there is a poor connection. If you have op amps that run hot like the OVII version of the 1612, perforate the top like I did. It has been fun fiddling with it, and it sounds fantastic for the $69 I paid.
I also use No-Oxid electrical connection protection grease on the pins of op-amps when there isn't a gold-to-gold, round pin-to-round socket. Ordinary IC pins going into the round gold sockets isn't ideal, and the grease helps protect that connection over time. It also makes insertion and removal a heck of a lot easier. Use it very sparingly, applying a tiny film with a toothpick.
I just ordered one of these on sale for fun: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803488001195.html
I ordered it with no Bluetooth and no USB so I don't have to remove those, and added the "upgrade" power transformer. They are putting the OPA1612 in it. We will see how it goes. The "Rod Rain" brand seems OK. AkLIAM Audio store on AliExpress is now having their name put on some instead of "Rod Rain."
Now I need adapter boards for the OPA1656 since AliExpress screwed up my order.
Interestingly, the op amp that I keep coming back to is the OVII version of the 1612 (OPA1612AIDRxx).
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805587834000.html
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa1612.pdf?HQS=dis-dk-null-digikeymode-dsf-pf-null-wwe&ts=1693210947704&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Fgeneral%2Fdocs%2Fsuppproductinfo.tsp%3FdistId%3D10%26gotoUrl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Flit%2Fgpn%2Fopa1612
It just has a "musical" feel to it. They ran so hot in the DAC though that I had to custom fabricate tiny heatsinks for them. I found that they just didn't sound as good when they were allowed to get so hot. I put them back in last night after several weeks of listening to other op amps. Listening to them right now in the background. Not bad.
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If it runs that hot, you may have oscilation problem. 1612 shouldn't run hot. Not even maximally stretched V wise, as is on purifi input buffers.
I considered the possibility. If that is true, then it would only be with the 1612 AIDGR OVII. The Burr Brown OPA 2604, OPA1612, and Oracle II 02 are fine. Burr Brown runs barely warm, not hot. Oracle II 02 runs stone cold. The 1612 AIDGR OVII ran very warm to the touch but not hot enough to burn the finger. I attribued the heat buildup to a totally closed, very small enclosure combined with the fact that four of them are packed very tightly together with no clearance. They also are smaller than all of the other chips by about half. So they have little ability to radiate heat. They are the only solid state component that I have had that sounded better when first turned on compared to a few hours later, so I perforated the top and made tiny heatsinks. Maybe the circuit has a problem with them, but the manufacturer still sells them configured this way, and they do have an appealing sound regardless of what may cause them to run this warm.
I bought 4 muse02 op-amps for my Fosi Audio V3 Mono amps, but realized that the price seemed to be too good to be true.
So I searched for possible indicators for fakes and found this thread here.
I already did the magnet test. The legs are NOT magnetic! Also the optical indicators seem to be all OK, as far as I can tell.
But I am a total newbie, so I would appreciate it if you could have a look at the attached images and tell me your opinion.
Thanks in advance!
So I searched for possible indicators for fakes and found this thread here.
I already did the magnet test. The legs are NOT magnetic! Also the optical indicators seem to be all OK, as far as I can tell.
But I am a total newbie, so I would appreciate it if you could have a look at the attached images and tell me your opinion.
Thanks in advance!
Attachments
In Paris the gipsies sell golden rings and I always wonder if they are real gold. They sure look like gold but the price usually is too good to be true. To be sure I would rather buy gold at a jeweller and preferably one that has aqua regia.
Thanks for your reply.
Well, in terms of Gold there is at least a raw material price that is an indicator to determine fakes. When it comes to electronic parts, this is not the case.
We all know that the manufacturing costs of these op-amps are minimal, even if they are sold for 100€ a piece.
And we also know that you can buy products on Chinese selling platforms that are 1:1 the same, like the ones sold here on Amazon etc. But a lot cheaper.
In this case, I read in this thread that the fakes muse02 don’t have legs made off copper. So they are magnetic. That’s not the case here, they are not magnetic, and I can see a bit of copper shining through. Also on the gap of the plastic part of the muse, what seems to be another indicator.
Well, in terms of Gold there is at least a raw material price that is an indicator to determine fakes. When it comes to electronic parts, this is not the case.
We all know that the manufacturing costs of these op-amps are minimal, even if they are sold for 100€ a piece.
And we also know that you can buy products on Chinese selling platforms that are 1:1 the same, like the ones sold here on Amazon etc. But a lot cheaper.
In this case, I read in this thread that the fakes muse02 don’t have legs made off copper. So they are magnetic. That’s not the case here, they are not magnetic, and I can see a bit of copper shining through. Also on the gap of the plastic part of the muse, what seems to be another indicator.
Many a decent/normal opamp has tin plated copper pins.
The Chinese selling websites are true champions in selling fake parts (not 1:1 or 100% the same but counterfeit or relabelled other ICs). We know that. So it is a lottery.
The Chinese selling websites are true champions in selling fake parts (not 1:1 or 100% the same but counterfeit or relabelled other ICs). We know that. So it is a lottery.
Regardless, please post a listening review of them compared to other op-amps you have tried, and if they are pleasing, a link to buy them. Even if they are clones or some other chip remarked, that doesn't mean they will sound bad! And ignore the Negative Nellies who reply with, "Sound quality is all subjective anyway." It does help to have other op amps on hand for comparison though. I have collected 5-6 different types now. The ones I keep going back to are old Burr-Brown chips. I bought some new Burr-Browns from DigiKey last year, and they just don't sound right to me in the bass and sub-bass. I was always a fan of Burr-Brown D-to-A converter chips in CD players back in the day.
I don’t have that much experience with different op-amps, since I only had the stock op-amps before, and I also don’t know how the muses02 sound in reality.
Today I replaced the 2 stock op-amps with the cheap muses02 I received yesterday. But I did it in just one of the V3 monos. Then I set the WiiM Ultra to mono output and used the balance slider in the app to switch fast between the left and right V3/loudspeaker.
They are connected with a balanced XLR from the ZD3 DAC.
Yes, I definitely hear a difference between the op-amps. And I have to say the cheap muses02 sound pretty good.
I definitely hear that the vocals are more present, but also smoother (not harsh). There is a better separation between the vocals and the music itself. In direct comparison the vocals with the stock op-amp sound like the singer is standing in a empty room with hard floor, so it sounds like the voice has more reverb. The sound with muse02 is better described as if you listen to the music sitting in a cosy jazz club with sofas and curtains.
Of course, my descriptions are exaggerated to get a better feeling about the differences.
In reality it’s more subtile, but noticeable.
The higher frequencies are a bit less present with the muse02. In some songs this sounds just right, in others it sounds a bit too damped/lifeless. Playing with the equalizer in the WiiM it seems that turning up the kHz Band a bit brings the „life“ back in these songs.
Regarding the Bass frequencies I don’t notice a audible difference.
Now I really don’t know what to do with my impressions. What I hear seems to be pretty in line how the original muses02 should sound.
But since I don’t have the original for comparison, I really can’t say if these really sound different or better, maybe more refined? I really don’t know.
Maybe I already got the originals, maybe the ones that didn’t fully meet the aimed specs in production.
Should I really buy 4 „real“ originals for 100€?
I paid just 20€ for the ones I have here, and they already sound good to me.
Today I replaced the 2 stock op-amps with the cheap muses02 I received yesterday. But I did it in just one of the V3 monos. Then I set the WiiM Ultra to mono output and used the balance slider in the app to switch fast between the left and right V3/loudspeaker.
They are connected with a balanced XLR from the ZD3 DAC.
Yes, I definitely hear a difference between the op-amps. And I have to say the cheap muses02 sound pretty good.
I definitely hear that the vocals are more present, but also smoother (not harsh). There is a better separation between the vocals and the music itself. In direct comparison the vocals with the stock op-amp sound like the singer is standing in a empty room with hard floor, so it sounds like the voice has more reverb. The sound with muse02 is better described as if you listen to the music sitting in a cosy jazz club with sofas and curtains.
Of course, my descriptions are exaggerated to get a better feeling about the differences.
In reality it’s more subtile, but noticeable.
The higher frequencies are a bit less present with the muse02. In some songs this sounds just right, in others it sounds a bit too damped/lifeless. Playing with the equalizer in the WiiM it seems that turning up the kHz Band a bit brings the „life“ back in these songs.
Regarding the Bass frequencies I don’t notice a audible difference.
Now I really don’t know what to do with my impressions. What I hear seems to be pretty in line how the original muses02 should sound.
But since I don’t have the original for comparison, I really can’t say if these really sound different or better, maybe more refined? I really don’t know.
Maybe I already got the originals, maybe the ones that didn’t fully meet the aimed specs in production.
Should I really buy 4 „real“ originals for 100€?
I paid just 20€ for the ones I have here, and they already sound good to me.
You can spend yourself into the poorhouse on op amps. As I said, I have a number of different ones now, most of them listed here in this thread. My approach to listening to them is to put in one set, listen for a few days and see how I feel about them, taking notes, and then do the same with another set. Some are slightly edgy. Some are a little muddy in the bass. And so on. So you have choices. You can spend the money for the real deal and hope you are happy with them or do what I did and use that same money to try a bunch of different less expensive ones. I keep coming back again and again to the old-fashioned Burr-Brown chips that I bought, because I like their bass performance, but they can be a bit muddy in my system. They seem to be my favorite anyway. Others have a more clean and crisp sound and a "tighter" bottom end, but I seem to get bored listening to them because the bass drives so much of my music (jazz, rock). In the end, you pick the one you like best and stick with that in that particular DAC. Buy another DAC and you have to start all over again. There also are some discrete op amps from China if they will fit physically. Lots and lots of op amps out there to try.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...t_main.61.5ab31802Au4lvI&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
Having fun and not spending yourself into the poorhouse is the important part. I have really enjoyed swapping out all my different op amps, and none of them cost me very much.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...t_main.61.5ab31802Au4lvI&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
Having fun and not spending yourself into the poorhouse is the important part. I have really enjoyed swapping out all my different op amps, and none of them cost me very much.