Well that's not very nice! They should take a leaf from the musical instrument tradition: culture says that an instrument should be passed down from generation to generation, to everyone's best ability. We got one of those tank drums that are the flavour of the day, and the other weekend I spent an hour tuning it with an angle grinder to fix a foul note that was making my ears bleed. I wasn't going to throw it out.
Bass Amplifier
Upper Amplifier
This goes for some form of crossover filter.
So, it is not as simple. The quality of the filter is very important.
It is not only to attach a Bass Amplifier and Subwoofer.
Upper Amplifier
This goes for some form of crossover filter.
So, it is not as simple. The quality of the filter is very important.
It is not only to attach a Bass Amplifier and Subwoofer.
All else equal... such as playing the same audio material at the same gain level etc., doesn't require anything special designing a bass amplifier meant to reproduce a signal up to some couple of hundred Hertz compared to what is required from a typical generic audio amplifier designed for the whole audio range, it's rather the opposite, probably the only thing is the loop compensation and stability is much easier to get right for a bass amplifier.
For casual listening a bass amplifier can be class AB (class A imo doesn't make sense for bass at all) up to some arbitrary wattage level, say up to 20 Watts or maybe a little bit more, well above that the only type of amplifier that makes sense for bass reproduction is class D as the power efficiency is so much better, and distortion levels for class D amplifier is more than sufficiently low enough in the lower frequency region.
For casual listening a bass amplifier can be class AB (class A imo doesn't make sense for bass at all) up to some arbitrary wattage level, say up to 20 Watts or maybe a little bit more, well above that the only type of amplifier that makes sense for bass reproduction is class D as the power efficiency is so much better, and distortion levels for class D amplifier is more than sufficiently low enough in the lower frequency region.
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I prefer an amp with low output impedance for bass, so my go-to bass amp is class AB with high loop gain and in simulation it seems CFP output stage has an advantage over EF if the rest is equal. I think (over-)sizing the input and dc-blocking (feedback) caps to keep phase as linear as possible in the low end can't hurt.
If the VAS is bootstrapped, moving the bootstrap cap from the output to the other side of the emitter resistor usually lowers output impedance too.
More loop gain makes it less sensitive to power supply 'weakness', but decent PS is preferred.
If the VAS is bootstrapped, moving the bootstrap cap from the output to the other side of the emitter resistor usually lowers output impedance too.
More loop gain makes it less sensitive to power supply 'weakness', but decent PS is preferred.
A bass amplifier requires a bass driver: the desire for a bass amplifier starts with a bass driver;-)
Depending on the design and installation, the drivers "distort" in different ways - most of them end up as terribly wafting, rumbling, booming or, on the contrary, overdamped "specialists": demand for a "countering sound quality" of the amplifier, for example. Which is probably why the idea is widespread that a power amplifier with a low output resistance (internal resistance) is a good bass amplifier - mostly highly complex three-tone push-pull amplifiers: dull, grey, treble-mid-BASS. Even the power supply is overlooked as essential.
Assuming a good bass speaker - and there are only a few - the sound quality of the amplifier, consisting essentially of design and components and implementation, is ultimately decisive for the sound.
... I have my rambling day today;-) Sorry;-)
Depending on the design and installation, the drivers "distort" in different ways - most of them end up as terribly wafting, rumbling, booming or, on the contrary, overdamped "specialists": demand for a "countering sound quality" of the amplifier, for example. Which is probably why the idea is widespread that a power amplifier with a low output resistance (internal resistance) is a good bass amplifier - mostly highly complex three-tone push-pull amplifiers: dull, grey, treble-mid-BASS. Even the power supply is overlooked as essential.
Assuming a good bass speaker - and there are only a few - the sound quality of the amplifier, consisting essentially of design and components and implementation, is ultimately decisive for the sound.
... I have my rambling day today;-) Sorry;-)
A rambling indeed the above is. So dear cumbb, your suggestion is?
So much interest in bass amps ??? Want me to design the best for you all ?
I can keep it simple. The best is actually what I posted as the "Behringer" . But it's circuit running a wolverine EF3 would be
quite ideal. Nothing like it in "OEM land". You want the bootstrap ? (below) .... I did not EF3 it yet ... but .01% 2R at 200w is good.
I can keep it simple. The best is actually what I posted as the "Behringer" . But it's circuit running a wolverine EF3 would be
quite ideal. Nothing like it in "OEM land". You want the bootstrap ? (below) .... I did not EF3 it yet ... but .01% 2R at 200w is good.
Attachments
Project 103 is a all pass filter with both phase inversion and variable shift. 1st op-amp is a switchable inverting/ non -inverting unity gain.
Second stage is an all-pass filter with adjustable phase shift. 0- 350 degrees shift is the expected range.
Steer clear of P3a , CFP can be tamed , but EF2 /EF3 is much more robust/stable.
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But the woofer is massive 7CM voicecoil and a huge 20cm / 6KG magnet. 25mm Xmax. I'd say the XT-12 woofer could easily take 200w.
I'm running my behringer at 120w ... over 200w peaks - not even coming close to Xmax. Easy 106db at 25hz. gut wrenching bass. the Polk amp
could not do this ... I fixed it before I replaced it - it sucked !
Why not design a beefed up version of the Elliot 3A design with the cheapest possible output transistors (e.g. TIP 2955/3055) and using 3 (per half that is) of them in the output stages, so plenty of current can be supplied? Is it really necessary to aim for more then some 100 W-rms in 4 Ohms for a bass only amp?
Most confuse cleanness, clearness, pureness (depth of presentation, blackness, quietness) and "bass".
But multi-way wooden speakers and complex push-pull amplifiers can not in Clear and Pure.
But multi-way wooden speakers and complex push-pull amplifiers can not in Clear and Pure.
Some good points have brought up.
Again for generalized answer.
Within reason lower impedance might be expected
from a system designed for bass.
4 ohms loads can be expected and can dip into the 3 ohm region.
"Bass Amplifier" would have healthy power supply.
And enough output devices to be thermally stable.
Likewise more output devices the more merry things can be.
thermally and performance wise.
Also as noted with amplifier design, and chasing low distortion.
With high frequency and stability. It can be a challenge to get low
distortion and stability.
With a dedicated "Bass amplifier" expected to be set to a more narrow
lower bandwidth. A designer could be ok with excessive compensation
and make a very, very stable amplifier. The tradeoff being usually
high frequency distortion.
In this case it is hardly a issue, bandwidth is bass only.
Main concentration is generous amounts of output devices
and healthy power supply. For really nice snap and control.
Assuming 4 ohm even 2 ohm loads. And to even have low distortion
bragging rights, or close to average distortion ratings at 2 ohms.
Again very good gain structure, and excessive amounts of output devices.
make a very snappy fun amp.
At first not fully understanding benefits of triple emitter stages
or Locanthi style output stage. It would be my suggestion.
for 4 or 2 ohm loads, generous amount of output devices
using triple emitter output, also including high quilt free
stability compensation.
Again for generalized answer.
Within reason lower impedance might be expected
from a system designed for bass.
4 ohms loads can be expected and can dip into the 3 ohm region.
"Bass Amplifier" would have healthy power supply.
And enough output devices to be thermally stable.
Likewise more output devices the more merry things can be.
thermally and performance wise.
Also as noted with amplifier design, and chasing low distortion.
With high frequency and stability. It can be a challenge to get low
distortion and stability.
With a dedicated "Bass amplifier" expected to be set to a more narrow
lower bandwidth. A designer could be ok with excessive compensation
and make a very, very stable amplifier. The tradeoff being usually
high frequency distortion.
In this case it is hardly a issue, bandwidth is bass only.
Main concentration is generous amounts of output devices
and healthy power supply. For really nice snap and control.
Assuming 4 ohm even 2 ohm loads. And to even have low distortion
bragging rights, or close to average distortion ratings at 2 ohms.
Again very good gain structure, and excessive amounts of output devices.
make a very snappy fun amp.
At first not fully understanding benefits of triple emitter stages
or Locanthi style output stage. It would be my suggestion.
for 4 or 2 ohm loads, generous amount of output devices
using triple emitter output, also including high quilt free
stability compensation.
In all simplicity and respectful response
towards experimenting and early learning.
A perfect example how to Not to build
a high power amplifier.
towards experimenting and early learning.
A perfect example how to Not to build
a high power amplifier.
"Want me to design the best for you all ?"
I'm interested! I can help with a little monetary support!
I've been thinking about this for some time now for my 80hz subs in 4 ways and if possible suitable for 300hz cross in 3 way's
My plan is black box on top of each sub, so a 330mm wide case with heatsink at the rear inside with vents above and below.
🙂
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Anyone can have fun designing what they want.
Far as common well established design theory
Bob Cordell's BC1 should be more than sufficient design
and good example to learn from.
300 watts at 4 ohms not enough?
same design has room for adding more output devices.
likewise is the power amp.
anything of high power needs soft start and DC protection on
output. unless you enjoy playing roulette with expensive speakers
Far as common well established design theory
Bob Cordell's BC1 should be more than sufficient design
and good example to learn from.
300 watts at 4 ohms not enough?
same design has room for adding more output devices.
likewise is the power amp.
anything of high power needs soft start and DC protection on
output. unless you enjoy playing roulette with expensive speakers
ohms / impedance are often mentioned, but rarely the phase angle associated with it, and the demands larger phase puts on the amplifier.
Absolutely , I think mr. Elliot wants to sell boards (and make magic smoke). Some of his site's material is really good , but even as a noobie I stayed away.
I chose the Self/Cordell "path".