It's more than that. It's also the amount of self control needed too overcome the addiction. It varies from person to person. Environment matters too.
Put a clean addict back into the environment where they were addicted and they'll probably relapse. For some it means a complete change of their life, moving away from home, changing job, possibly leaving a still addicted partner.
It's not easy.
Smoking like any habit is difficult to stop the longer you do it. Addiction is anything that you continue to do that causes problems in your life or other. Long ago and several million people later one thing stands true. 50% of the people admit to having some type of excessive compulsive behavior. The other 50% are in denial. Keeping it between the curbs and watching who you hang out with is important. If you hang out at a barbershop you will get your haircut.🙂
Regards
Regards
Going to church every Sunday is a habit. Smoking is an addiction.
You can easily have an addiction that does not cause problems in your life. Like reading books.
Jan
You can easily have an addiction that does not cause problems in your life. Like reading books.
Jan
Like building audio gear.
My wife just doesn't understand my addiction...How many amps do you need?
Reading books makes you fat due to the lack of exercise.
Hard to know your addiction.
My shelves are full of amps, I keep building new shelves.
Am I addicted to shelves ? 🤔
Two plants that have a presence across most of the world - the rose and marijuana. In India at the end of a working day many labourers enjoy bhang tea as a way of relaxing - it's a great idea, no nasty addictive nicotine involved, no damage to the lungs.
The Norse Viking Berserkers used to scare the ~h~t out of the enemy. Before battle they used to make and drink an infusion of magic mushrooms/beer and ganja. They worked themselves up into a frenzy and kept on coming even with plenty of arrows or spears embedded in their bodies. Each berserker took on the persona of an animal of their choice. The most famous was one who stood on the bridge/Stamford Bridge - from which the battle of the Stamford bridge was named. It only allowed the passage of 2 of Harold Godwinson's houscarls, the professional Saxon soldiers to cross at a time. The Saxon army couldn't advance against the Norse army led by Harold Haardrada and Tostig, Harold's brother. He killed about 14 before one houscarl had the sense to use a boat to pass under the bridge where he used a spear to skewer the berserker from underneath and the Saxon army could advance.
It was a very hot day and in their stupidity and arrogance the Norse had left their heavy armour on their boats, they were slaughtered and of the over 300 longboats that were used in the invasion only around 30 came back to Norway. That was the end of Norway and it remained an unimportant country until the discovery of oil and gas at the beginning of the 1970s.
The word assasins comes from the Arabic Hashashins, a formidable Arab force that used to smoke hash before charging into battle completely out of their brains. This to one who has used lots of different hash and ganja seems unbelievable but in 1975 there was an amazing hash that appeared in the UK and almost certainly elsewhere which we called 'speedy Rocky' it came from Morocco. Instead of being wasted you had incredible energy and were completely garrulous as if you had used an amphetamine. I can only think they had access to this form of hash.
In the days of slavery and beyond in Jamaica those cutting sugar cane used to have 'ganja breaks' how the hell they were able to work afterwards is beyond me. But in 75 in Scheidam the birthplace of Dutch genever/gin, after completing a deal to buy some antique 'tafelkleden' - Flemish made table carpets (the Flems and Dutch will know about them) the seller pulled out a bag of Jamaican ganja. A Dutch ounze is 100 grams and it cost 1 guilder a gram, which then was UK 20 pence. It had been picked late and was full of seed which he dumped in an asbakje/ashtray. He made a 'stikje' a single paper joint. WOW what a trip all the way back to England. It became known as Haze. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was NOT to pick up those seeds to take back home with me - so it goes.
The thing is we all understand self control and accountability. No doubt there are many factors that contribute to the decisions we make and people's lives are complex webs of experience. Given the right circumstances we are all capable of anything. It may seem simplistic to say it's a matter of self control but using rodents as test subjects to come up with definitive answers to this question is ignoring the things that distinguishes us from unreasoning animals.
I am just high on myself. 🙂 I did snus for a few years. Not good for the gums, heart, and the pancreas, but much healthier than smoking.
Unless reading books causes a problem in your life or others, it is habit. If you read 12 hours a day for pleasure
and never move. It is a problem for others most likely. Addiction is very selfish. The absolute worst is legal VIC
Gambling, Boozing, Smoking.
Haze was developed by the "Haze Brother" in the 60s from four different strain. 3 super sativas at the time and 1 indica.
They were all "Landrace" strains. I can give specifics on the strain if I look them up. Jamaican Lambsbread was most likely the strain you encountered. I have traveled the world and in the 70s the cannabis of the world was completely different. They screwed up everything. They may have super producing strains now, but the fact is the most powerful smoke I've ever had was was a single F1 cross, both ways. Both males and both females.
South Korea contributed 90% to the strain "Romulan" and few will admit it. The fact is the Korean involvement is why cannabis became popular for the local poorboys just back from the "K" war. Oklahoma to California had a lot of participation. My uncle was kind enough to bring back that trusty bag of seeds in 1953-4. You got it he was a Beatnik. He grew in OK and CA for the rest of his life. He settled in the Carmel valley where he developed a strain called Deloris after his lost sweetheart.
There is a lot of history where weed is concerned. DJ Short is one of my heros. He kept the strains clean, Blueberry, Flo,
Blue moonshine. Federation Seed company was hands down my favorite developer. Romulan, 7 of 9, GT Thai, Island sweet Skunk, Remus. The odd ball was Burmese and its crosses. Burmese x F*&Kin' incredible, was INCREDIBLE.
Marc Emery turned me on to that. He's an infamous seed guy in Canada. I like him.
Africa had some very nice sativas. The Mecau Cob (cured in banana leaves) and SAF Durban Poison. The least potent
is from Eastern Europe. Ruderalis (auto flower) it's how they got bud to autoflower.
You do understand that Canary food used to be made out of cannabis seeds. There was a reason they sang like a Canary. 🙂
The Organic Mechanic signing off. LOL
Regards
Met my tool maker today, he was just back from meeting his brother in law, who has cancer from chewing tobacco.
The graft on his cheek did not stick, food eaten leaks from there, and the place on his chest from where the graft was harvested is not healing, it is oozing blood.
He will be gone in at most a week.
Here tobacco (raw or flavored) is mixed with betel nuts and lime paste (yes, the building material) and placed in the the mouth between teeth and cheeks, the stuff is slowly chewed.
A similar ready product is called 'gutkha', which is dry powdery stuff, and tobacco pastes are also sold.
They are cheap, about 10 Rupees - 12 US cents - for a single helping, enough for at least two hours of chewing.
A pinch of gutka at a time can be used over three days, such is the quantity sold. It is sweet, and very addictive.
The consequences are above.
My tool maker is 48, so his relative, wife's brother, will be of similar age.
Too young to die, but such are the results of tobacco abuse.
The graft on his cheek did not stick, food eaten leaks from there, and the place on his chest from where the graft was harvested is not healing, it is oozing blood.
He will be gone in at most a week.
Here tobacco (raw or flavored) is mixed with betel nuts and lime paste (yes, the building material) and placed in the the mouth between teeth and cheeks, the stuff is slowly chewed.
A similar ready product is called 'gutkha', which is dry powdery stuff, and tobacco pastes are also sold.
They are cheap, about 10 Rupees - 12 US cents - for a single helping, enough for at least two hours of chewing.
A pinch of gutka at a time can be used over three days, such is the quantity sold. It is sweet, and very addictive.
The consequences are above.
My tool maker is 48, so his relative, wife's brother, will be of similar age.
Too young to die, but such are the results of tobacco abuse.
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I believe this is the problem - that most people don't. Even researchers who do study how this works in other people are not immune to failing at seeing themselves and their own behaviors objectively.
And I believe "self control and accountability" is too often interpreted in a manner that seems to judge someone for not [having enough] "self control and accountability" in situations where that is the equivalent to asking someone to [grow taller].
As @StevenCrook mentioned, even tall people might struggle to reach that high shelf if they try it while standing in a hole in the floor...
O2 is not flammable, contrary to popular belief. Are you sure this is not an urban legend?
Basically --don't have an open flame around actual combustibles; same as you do in regular "air."
The opposite of that is played out in society, though. This is why for the most part we live in a civil society governed by rules. Those that break them are held to account whether in a court of some sort or personally, but ultimately by society. Even those who are defiant and brought to justice measure their behaviour by established expectations whether they believe they are culpable or not. This is true even on a personal level. Even a psycho who may not have empathy weighs the consequences of their actions. We learn what is acceptable and what is not by observation. Just because one chooses to ignore these things and act out contrarily does not suggest they are not aware, hence the measures put in place to deal with it. This can get very philosophical very quickly. However a person does not have to grasp the philosophical tenets of right and wrong to obey the law and understand there are consequences for not doing so.
I know someone who's a recovering drug addict. He's in a government sponsored refuge. Before going there he was living with his parents. He cannot return to his parents because he would almost certainly relapse once he's home. In the streets outside his parent's home are all the addicts and dealers he used to mix with. He cannot support himself, he can't be relocated. He's stuck where he is.
I don't disagree that societal influence and the notion of "right" and "wrong" is a large influence on [civil] behavior. In large groups, social pressure works fine, in this context it's probably better at influencing folks to not start bad habits though.
I don't see that as the primary mechanism at play when discussing an individual who has a problem breaking habits or addiction, so I don't believe that is a useful or applicable analogy.
Because the impact on society can be mitigated/reduced without quitting, and then the societal influence is primarily judgmental/value. And, at the individual level, judgement and other related forms of negative pressure are often counter productive and sometimes more of an impediment.
Yes, there are some willfully ignorant people.
Yes, everyone has to decide they are going to fight their demons, or not.
Yes, willpower and self-control can be exercised and increased like muscles.
No, not being able to reach the top shelf without help doesn't put you into the "willfully ignorant and acting out" category.
Never mind:
-- social pressure works without regard to the definition of morality, only conformity
-- even when morals aren't in debate, there are some folks who are unwillingly ignorant, not everyone's base observations will primarily consist of appropriate consequences meted out for rule-breaking.
--- Separate from the main topic, honestly, I don't believe most folks understand how complex societal influence is, where it works, and how it relates to individual behavior. I am not talking about philosophical tenets of morality or the like, I am talking about how individuals weigh those consequences, to the point that in a number of instances a viewpoint based on cause & effect / law & consequences would lead them into policies that at best do nothing and at worst exacerbate the issue.
How many folks understand that assigning tangible consequences to an action can lead to increased mis-behavior? Social pressure and stigma can be way more effective than transactional consequences. For example, when a social offense is turned into a fee, it's no longer about mis-behaving it's about can you afford to pay the fine (and then sliding into how likely you will be caught).
If only things were that simple. We do know from rodent studies that nicotine (and many other addictive substances) permanently rewires the reward system in the brain. Hebb's law: "Neurons that fire together, wire together". The more times you consume nicotine the stronger the connection between nicotine and reward/pleasure. The fact that my dad still missed smoking 40 years after he quit speaks to the strength of those neural networks.
Sure. We can all be Monday morning quarterbacks and blame the addicts for their "poor life choices" (or whatever you wish to attribute their addiction to), but I think that ignores the fact that not all of our choices are conscious choices. Did you choose your friends from some decision matrix where you carefully weighted and evaluated each attribute of each of your friends? I'm guessing you didn't. Peer pressure is a thing and people will make many irrational choices to satisfy their need for belonging. Those aren't conscious choices.
Blaming addictions on poor life choices and lack of self control do the addicts a disservice.
Tom
I usually ask that question to Seneca, Marcus Aurelius or Epictetus.
I smoke since i was 14 (weed and cigs), about 15 years ago, it really drastically diminished my life quality already. I have like chronic rinnitis and chest pains, if i keep going, i wont be able to run a bus, and i will slowly choke to death. If i keep in the desk many months like in covid, i can barely F#### because i run out of air .
Yet, as awfull as it may sound, i obviusly dont take that seriously, i barely play "the cynic". If i could value life at all my presents, there is no doubt, i wouldnt smoke anymore. Yet, like most of us in different ways, i live momments of delussion, where the frugality and inertia dominate, and i instinctually end up with a cig in my hand. If one resist the crave, then it gets easier, but its really easy to fall again and be back at the beggining. Its just "one" in one of the 20 craves a day and i'm screwed. I started smoking because i felt it was cool to smoke while i wrote poetry in the middle of the night, it was nice, it isnt anymore. Nicotin is considered on par of heroin, so i wouldnt take it if i wasnt this into it. My day qulity diminishes instantly as i smoke my first cig, i become lazy, my circulation gets worst, my legs fell tired and hard.... ATM i'm at transition, yet i barely mannaged to quit for a couple of months last year. Idiot me who came back to it.
"Resist... Because the vice begin to weaken from day one "
"Freedom and slavery, the one is the name of virtue, and the other of vice, and both are acts of the will"
Epictetus
"Perhaps the worst things will happen, perhaps not, but till then, look forward to better things"
"We suffer more often in imagination than in reality"
Seneca
I smoke since i was 14 (weed and cigs), about 15 years ago, it really drastically diminished my life quality already. I have like chronic rinnitis and chest pains, if i keep going, i wont be able to run a bus, and i will slowly choke to death. If i keep in the desk many months like in covid, i can barely F#### because i run out of air .
Yet, as awfull as it may sound, i obviusly dont take that seriously, i barely play "the cynic". If i could value life at all my presents, there is no doubt, i wouldnt smoke anymore. Yet, like most of us in different ways, i live momments of delussion, where the frugality and inertia dominate, and i instinctually end up with a cig in my hand. If one resist the crave, then it gets easier, but its really easy to fall again and be back at the beggining. Its just "one" in one of the 20 craves a day and i'm screwed. I started smoking because i felt it was cool to smoke while i wrote poetry in the middle of the night, it was nice, it isnt anymore. Nicotin is considered on par of heroin, so i wouldnt take it if i wasnt this into it. My day qulity diminishes instantly as i smoke my first cig, i become lazy, my circulation gets worst, my legs fell tired and hard.... ATM i'm at transition, yet i barely mannaged to quit for a couple of months last year. Idiot me who came back to it.
"Resist... Because the vice begin to weaken from day one "
"Freedom and slavery, the one is the name of virtue, and the other of vice, and both are acts of the will"
Epictetus
"Perhaps the worst things will happen, perhaps not, but till then, look forward to better things"
"We suffer more often in imagination than in reality"
Seneca
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