What about the topping pa5?
I am planning to use 4 of them in my new line- array project
Jump to the recent end of the ASR thread you linked, seems the PA5 model is discontinued, also complaints of defective units and typical customer “support” for that genre of product.
I’ve a question: why use an amp model powered by a model-specific plastic brick for line arrays, vs. bare chip amp boards compatible with standard cheap power supplies? The cost of 4x PA5 is far from insignificant, and would seemingly be obsolete if any of the bricks fail (38V, 4A not seeming a common value among such products).
What am I missing? I understand that model ranked quite favorably among ASR’s stable of measurements, but using 4x those plastic power bricks... I dunno. Curious!
I had 2 of the PA5 model amps and returned both when 1 developed a hiss after a week with my horns.
One of the reasons why I like the added "confusion" from my OBs.
To me, they sound more natural than two drivers "shooting" directly at my head.
It emulates the sound of, lets say a violin, playing in front of me. The violin sound emanates in 3D, not just a projection of two drivers trying to fool me into a 3D sound. The OB, with their open back, are closer to what I feel when I listen.
YMMV, of course!
Bump!
@perceval I just had to create a duplicate account (couldn’t get a functional password reset link for months) to reply:
Love how you used a term of generally negative connotation - confusion - to describe the positive effect I also like in my speakers ( “Gallo’s pole” line array ).
Not sure I’d value it in an application where speakers needn’t resemble a large live music venue, so for HT I use modest stuff better-matched to a 49” tv.
“Confusion”… ha! Love it!!
Still looking into the technical details of Equilibrium. A bit dumbfounded that I was hearing these differences to be honest. Though if I'm perfectly honest, I did get the idea of hearing differences between my old equalizer and Fabfilter's linear phase mode. I just wrote that off as rounding errors in my attempt to copy the settings.
So to get a better understanding of all the modes in Equilibrium I searched the net a bit and found this: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=375444&hilit=Limitless&start=750
(Got that link trough following another discussion on Gearspace. Gearspace is my 'goto' place for discussions about plugins like these. They have to work with this stuff.)
I thought it was interesting to read the parts from the creator of this equalizer. Yes @perceval I did read up on Kirchhoff EQ too, but it does not have anything near the levels of optimization of Equilibrium as far as the technical user settings go. They do similar stuff, linear phase is a FIR implementation and they also have compensation for nyquist errors etc. but no choice of window settings for FIR etc.
Anyway, I collected the most interesting remarks on Equilibrium in a text file I'll attach here. Should anyone be interested. I've taken out the name of the forum user but kept the DMG names. The link above is the original text.
So to get a better understanding of all the modes in Equilibrium I searched the net a bit and found this: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=375444&hilit=Limitless&start=750
(Got that link trough following another discussion on Gearspace. Gearspace is my 'goto' place for discussions about plugins like these. They have to work with this stuff.)
I thought it was interesting to read the parts from the creator of this equalizer. Yes @perceval I did read up on Kirchhoff EQ too, but it does not have anything near the levels of optimization of Equilibrium as far as the technical user settings go. They do similar stuff, linear phase is a FIR implementation and they also have compensation for nyquist errors etc. but no choice of window settings for FIR etc.
Anyway, I collected the most interesting remarks on Equilibrium in a text file I'll attach here. Should anyone be interested. I've taken out the name of the forum user but kept the DMG names. The link above is the original text.
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@benandersdoppelgänger and @NBPK402 good info on that Topping amp. I'll look for other viable solutions.
Having 4 active channels per speaker to play with, shading, delay, etc.
I just received a first PA5 that I tested, where was the news coming from that they were discontinued?
More listening to do but at least there is an explanation for the things I heard. The top end of the spectrum being the largest difference.
It is so easy to state it was different, I'll probably try some experiments on my son, without him knowing of course.
Let him listen to 2 of the same DSP setups, one with fabfilter, one with equilibrium.
It is so easy to state it was different, I'll probably try some experiments on my son, without him knowing of course.
Let him listen to 2 of the same DSP setups, one with fabfilter, one with equilibrium.
@mvs0 I understand why you want 4 small (zonal) amps, I’ve been fiddling with a similar approach the past couple months. But why an expensive model that needs 4x plastic power bricks of unconventional V / A? Again, not trying to push. Just curious.
“Discontinued” PA5 was mentioned in the same ASR thread you linked, second from last page, from a couple dealers and then from Topping, according to the posters.
Still playing with Equilibrium, still loving it. Also still wondering why I heard differences in Fabfilter Pro (2) vs Equilibrium.
I guess there is or 'could be' truth in this:
Though it could also be tiny differences in phase behavior or even the shape of the pulse (adjustable with window settings and filter length in Equilibrium).
So there are enough reasons it can sound different. Still, it took me by surprise. The power in this particular EQ seems to be the adjustability of all those little nuances. Fair enough, I like it.
I guess there is or 'could be' truth in this:
Source page: https://gearspace.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/823061-dmgaudio-equilibrium-14.htmlBob Olhsson said:
Though it could also be tiny differences in phase behavior or even the shape of the pulse (adjustable with window settings and filter length in Equilibrium).
So there are enough reasons it can sound different. Still, it took me by surprise. The power in this particular EQ seems to be the adjustability of all those little nuances. Fair enough, I like it.
As I don't have nearly as much listening time as I used to have, a lot of my sessions have become about recording all channels to disk and cleaning that up.
It made me aware that the pré-delay I assumed to set in my reverb plugins never holds once the program has been shut down and started up again. So another route change in Metaplugin, adding a couple of instances of Voxengo's Sound Delay solves that for me.
At least the sessions now become repeatable. I can now get the effect of the background wrap around that Dr. Griesinger mentioned consistently.
Never understood why it vanished in between sessions. Now I know, checking the instances in REW can help in understanding what's really happening.
Simple to see in an IR when my ambience reverb cuts in.
The adjustability of it all is thill a bit much. Though I do perceive differences between Equilibrium's IIR + Digital comp and FIR, using FIR all around with 32K lengths makes real time processing impossible (with 9 instances of Equilibrium). Songs do fine by themselves, but playing to subsequent songs have small cuts between them. So I now run 6 in FIR, 4 of those in linear phase, two in Analogue phase and the other 3 in IIR Digital + Compensation and Phase.
Now I can actually shape the room I hear, to some extend. I can't influence the recording, but I can get more space/with placement control.
Edit: By the way, this is Fun!!! I would never have checked the output if I hadn't swapped EQ's. Now that I have I get consistent results and I still feel that Equilibrium does the linear phase EQ justice. It helps that I upsample to 88.200 as that makes the timing of the anti cross talk part that much more accurate.
I still use mid/side EQ, with a little anti cross talk added plus some shuffling added. My favorite so far for months, tested multiple times.
It made me aware that the pré-delay I assumed to set in my reverb plugins never holds once the program has been shut down and started up again. So another route change in Metaplugin, adding a couple of instances of Voxengo's Sound Delay solves that for me.
At least the sessions now become repeatable
. I can now get the effect of the background wrap around that Dr. Griesinger mentioned consistently.Never understood why it vanished in between sessions. Now I know, checking the instances in REW can help in understanding what's really happening.
Simple to see in an IR when my ambience reverb cuts in.
The adjustability of it all is thill a bit much. Though I do perceive differences between Equilibrium's IIR + Digital comp and FIR, using FIR all around with 32K lengths makes real time processing impossible (with 9 instances of Equilibrium
). Songs do fine by themselves, but playing to subsequent songs have small cuts between them. So I now run 6 in FIR, 4 of those in linear phase, two in Analogue phase and the other 3 in IIR Digital + Compensation and Phase.Now I can actually shape the room I hear, to some extend. I can't influence the recording, but I can get more space/with placement control.
Edit: By the way, this is Fun!!! I would never have checked the output if I hadn't swapped EQ's. Now that I have I get consistent results and I still feel that Equilibrium does the linear phase EQ justice. It helps that I upsample to 88.200 as that makes the timing of the anti cross talk part that much more accurate.
I still use mid/side EQ, with a little anti cross talk added plus some shuffling added. My favorite so far for months, tested multiple times.
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Out of sheer enthusiasm, I bought DMG Equilibrium. But I'm still running into trouble or lack of space within JRiver.
See: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,134923.0.html
It does seem like the 32 bit version is more rock solid. I'll check it out in the coming days.
See: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,134923.0.html
It does seem like the 32 bit version is more rock solid. I'll check it out in the coming days.
I tried Equilibrium last night. OMG, what have I been listening to all this time. It is so much better. Listening was short and more to come but very promising. Thanks to whoever recommended it. You buying it is also a big vote of confidence.
Have to also try Camilla DSP, which was TNT’s recommendation.
Have to also try Camilla DSP, which was TNT’s recommendation.
