Lol...."experimental atmospheric instrumentals" that is how it all began....c/f Dr. Robert Moog
Then the blazers like Walter/Wendy and Tomita...et al
lol to the max! the "experimental atmospheric instrumentals" of these artists were their interpretations of "actual music"
Music written long before you were imagined..;-)
Really like your terminology..."dollars i've already incinerated" 🙂 will use it !!
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Haha. true indeed... But that said, it doesn't necessarily mean I automatically don't like it. For example, I really quite like atmospheric dark synth... I could listen to Brad Fiedels 1984 Terminator soundtrack for years.
Perhaps it's just the distant separations of a generation, But when ever I think of Yello, I always get an automatic sensation of failure that's been ingrained into my soul. Perhaps from older generations, we must look like the weird ones with all our stupid memes 😛
Not Yello . or any other yellow
I'm just mad about saffron
saffron's mad about me
I'm-a just mad about saffron
She's just mad about me
...think Beethoven Mussorgsky Vivaldi et al......
Use the WAY-BACK Machine Luke...🙂
I'm just mad about saffron
saffron's mad about me
I'm-a just mad about saffron
She's just mad about me
...think Beethoven Mussorgsky Vivaldi et al......
Use the WAY-BACK Machine Luke...🙂
Which is why I use an external sound card to avoid all that digital RFI
I think all that professional XLR stuff is way overkill for what I'm doing... my current AD/DAC seems more than adequate for my current vinyl setup.
Ummm, I think i'm all good with computers. This topic of conversation was more for you to make a recording for me with your setup 🙂 please 🙂
On a side note with retro movies... Is synth considered to be digital, analogue, both or depends?
Though to be honest, I don't really care, as I find musical composition (and in decent quality) to be more important than chasing pure and true analogue fidelity.
DS has published some info on powering the cartridges and a recommended EQ circuit. Have seen a couple of versions. Had to dig around on their website for it though.
Besides the EQ box providing power, EQ, and a bit of gain, one of the channels coming out of the cartridge is inverted phase, so that has to get corrected too. Feel free to PM if you want to talk about it in more detail.
Found it: https://www.ds-audio.biz/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/403619f1ae523ac7ca7e8a6345354cc2.pdf
The Japanese text can be copied into google translate little by little to read it in English. Maybe good to translate the questions first to see what topics might be of interest.
The Japanese text can be copied into google translate little by little to read it in English. Maybe good to translate the questions first to see what topics might be of interest.
So CD is 16 bits of info sampled at 44.1kHz speed......However, even good studio master tapes from the 50's & 60's (Blue Note, Columbia etc.) will yield max. about 20bits of info at 96.5kHz..
So lets say the song/sound recording was recorded properly onto the master tapes & then pressed onto top quality heavy vinyl first pressing,
To get a "Hi-Res" recording from the above vinyl, played for the first time, to extract every single bit of info from the grooves, takes serious gear.....damn good turntable, arm, cart....& mounted on a solid isolated platform....& damn good A to D recording gear....
What you have is "close, but no cigar"...
Now some recordings will yield about 24bits of info at 96kHz & others may yield more.....but you're having to spend more on the arm, cart etc to be able to extract the info from the grooves of the vinyl...& still hoping that the original recording was put onto the master tapes correctly before it was transferred to vinyl..
If you limit yourself to speciality studios....say "Sheffield Labs" who made some recordings "Direct to disc"...(Harry James records are good)...in other words NO master tapes....the mics & mixer desk were wired directly to the master pressing cutter machine for the vinyl...this making the recording far superior to most normal recordings....then you really have better sound regardless if the end format is vinyl or CD as the recording was laid down in the best way possible...
There is also the fact that top end recordings are now being done "digitally" so the master tape is actually a digital file of upto 24bits at 192kHz.....this apparently being more info than can be extracted from vinyl..
Naim records back in 2014, remastered their recording of Antonio Forcione & Sabina Sciubba album "Meet me in London".....& they manged to remaster it to 24bit at 192kHz....blows the CD resolution FLAC file out of the water....!!!
A lot of the so called "Hi-res" digital down loads are from your scenario .....NOT from the master tapes...I only consider "Hi-Res" when its from the master tapes....which usually has more info than a good vinyl pressing contains, & is usually guaranteed to be remastered on some serious equipment!
I only have CD, perfect rips as FLAC (courtesy of dBpoweramp), or digital master FLAC downloads from the record label that owns the master tapes..
However, most speakers have components in the cross overs which muddy the sound, or bad room positioning, bad amps, etc. etc.....there are too many other variables in the chain to ruin the sound, & you've compared speakers & headphones in your comparisons...to many variables..
Example:- Re the above mentioned Antonio Forcione & Sabina Sciubba album "Meet me in London" album. I initially owned it on CD, & it sounded very good, & you could tell that the recording was spot on, well produced etc... I then purchased the 24bit 192kHz digital recording as a FLAC download from Naim....& utterly mind-blowing with the extra detail....well it is more musical data in the same time frame...!!!..Then I rebuilt my Monitor Audio speaker cross-overs using better components & did various other things. Speakers in same room, same positions, same Denon amp, network player etc., etc.......
The difference was even more mind blowing than before...I reckon the CD now sounds better than the 24bit 192kHz digital recording did pre speaker modifications.......the 24bit 192kHz digital recording now is "them in the room"..I can "hear the pins drop" in the studio on the recoding!...Unfortunately these speakers now show up "rubbish" mastering.......so some songs regardless of format, I avoid...!!!
My point being on this rambling post is that chasing the DIY "Hi-res" from vinyl is a black hole of a money pit.....& one of the other reasons I ditched vinyl...
Some of the music & record labels that I have that are good tests:-
Massive Attack, Miles Davis, Antonio Forcione, Enigma, DMX, The Hu, The Ramsey Lewis Trio, Harry James, Dave Brubeck, Eagles, The Glitch Mob, Magnificat (Thomas Tallis), various classical recordings, & many others!
By record labels such as:- Columbia Legacy, Blue Note, Sheffield Labs, Naim, Linn, Deutsche Grammophon, etc..
P.S. one other good track is "Wire to wire" by Razorlight..all done live in one complete take on an old tape machine...
So lets say the song/sound recording was recorded properly onto the master tapes & then pressed onto top quality heavy vinyl first pressing,
To get a "Hi-Res" recording from the above vinyl, played for the first time, to extract every single bit of info from the grooves, takes serious gear.....damn good turntable, arm, cart....& mounted on a solid isolated platform....& damn good A to D recording gear....
What you have is "close, but no cigar"...
Now some recordings will yield about 24bits of info at 96kHz & others may yield more.....but you're having to spend more on the arm, cart etc to be able to extract the info from the grooves of the vinyl...& still hoping that the original recording was put onto the master tapes correctly before it was transferred to vinyl..
If you limit yourself to speciality studios....say "Sheffield Labs" who made some recordings "Direct to disc"...(Harry James records are good)...in other words NO master tapes....the mics & mixer desk were wired directly to the master pressing cutter machine for the vinyl...this making the recording far superior to most normal recordings....then you really have better sound regardless if the end format is vinyl or CD as the recording was laid down in the best way possible...
There is also the fact that top end recordings are now being done "digitally" so the master tape is actually a digital file of upto 24bits at 192kHz.....this apparently being more info than can be extracted from vinyl..
Naim records back in 2014, remastered their recording of Antonio Forcione & Sabina Sciubba album "Meet me in London".....& they manged to remaster it to 24bit at 192kHz....blows the CD resolution FLAC file out of the water....!!!
A lot of the so called "Hi-res" digital down loads are from your scenario .....NOT from the master tapes...I only consider "Hi-Res" when its from the master tapes....which usually has more info than a good vinyl pressing contains, & is usually guaranteed to be remastered on some serious equipment!
I only have CD, perfect rips as FLAC (courtesy of dBpoweramp), or digital master FLAC downloads from the record label that owns the master tapes..
However, most speakers have components in the cross overs which muddy the sound, or bad room positioning, bad amps, etc. etc.....there are too many other variables in the chain to ruin the sound, & you've compared speakers & headphones in your comparisons...to many variables..
Example:- Re the above mentioned Antonio Forcione & Sabina Sciubba album "Meet me in London" album. I initially owned it on CD, & it sounded very good, & you could tell that the recording was spot on, well produced etc... I then purchased the 24bit 192kHz digital recording as a FLAC download from Naim....& utterly mind-blowing with the extra detail....well it is more musical data in the same time frame...!!!..Then I rebuilt my Monitor Audio speaker cross-overs using better components & did various other things. Speakers in same room, same positions, same Denon amp, network player etc., etc.......
The difference was even more mind blowing than before...I reckon the CD now sounds better than the 24bit 192kHz digital recording did pre speaker modifications.......the 24bit 192kHz digital recording now is "them in the room"..I can "hear the pins drop" in the studio on the recoding!...Unfortunately these speakers now show up "rubbish" mastering.......so some songs regardless of format, I avoid...!!!
My point being on this rambling post is that chasing the DIY "Hi-res" from vinyl is a black hole of a money pit.....& one of the other reasons I ditched vinyl...
Some of the music & record labels that I have that are good tests:-
Massive Attack, Miles Davis, Antonio Forcione, Enigma, DMX, The Hu, The Ramsey Lewis Trio, Harry James, Dave Brubeck, Eagles, The Glitch Mob, Magnificat (Thomas Tallis), various classical recordings, & many others!
By record labels such as:- Columbia Legacy, Blue Note, Sheffield Labs, Naim, Linn, Deutsche Grammophon, etc..
P.S. one other good track is "Wire to wire" by Razorlight..all done live in one complete take on an old tape machine...
Audio is a money pit... it's a hobby.
The trick is to maximize the value of the money going into the pit.
And yes, you have to be careful with the accuracy of your components because, let's face it, stereo is simply just a facsimile of a recording. When your components get too "perfect" then you hear the shortcomings of the chain before.
This is why I don't care for monitor speakers ( even though I got three pairs )... I prefer my Magnepans as speakers.
And why I prefer tubes and Class A FET amps because their distortions hide the imperfections of the medium and the recording.
That's why my stereo is always set up to sound good and to bring the performers in the room but NOT to sound as the real thing. That's impossible and an endless quixotic money pit.
Should likely open a thread on this. I don't build anymore, but there many here that do fantastic jobs at it.
Let me look at my audio files. I got plenty of them.... but they are big. they were made with the old Grado Sonata though, not the Master. But everything else should be the same. I have not yet plugged in the RME, so it's still the M-Audio Firewire.
The train was Grado Sonata, Linn LP12, Conrad Johnson PV9 and M-Audio. I have upgrade the innards of the PV9 but I don't know if I bothered to make more recordings. As I noted, even though I got a very nice set up, I seldom record them anymore because I'd rather play the LPs (which I keep quite clean).
For trips. I have the downloaded master versions from Tidal HiFi in my cell phone.
Prior to the introduction of the Yamaha DX7 digital synth in 1983, all commercially available were analog. As a sound engineer, I had never seen any instrument catch on so fast as the DX7, it seemed like within months of it's release every serious keyboard jockey had one on the gig, along with their older ARPs and Moogs.
Many young "New Wave" artists after that period didn't bother with the analog stuff at all, preferring the different sounds of the digital world, and samples (digital recordings) of classic analog sounds they could incorporate.
Digital synthesizers have been since been made to duplicate or emulate most analog synthesizer sounds without the need of sampling them.
Back to the vinyl conundrum, the medium has interesting headroom limitations due to progressively less material to record on on the inner tracks compared to the outer, the equivalent of analog tape speed- faster speeds can carry more information.
The vinyl limitation especially requires progressively limiting low frequency amplitude (loudness) from the outer tracks to the inner, and the more low frequency extension desired, the lower the overall level can be used, and/or the shorter the length a side can be recorded.
Reducing recorded amplitude makes the upper "snap, crackle & pop" problem worse, making the compromise even more problematic.
If a mastering engineer wants the digital version to sound like the vinyl release, it has to incorporate the limitations of vinyl.
For the best you can get in vinyl, 12" 45 rpm singles are the way to go, compared to a 33 rpm LP, it's kind of like the difference between a 7.5 IPS reel to reel and a 1&7/8 IPS cassette.
Anyway, 12" 45 rpm singles maximize the potential of vinyl, but certainly increase the money going into the pit 😎
Art
Actually this Album is 2 disks at 45 rpm. Totalling over 80 minutes. Is that good?
When i was re-watching my video recording, when playing the first track on the outer circumference, it occurred to me how insanely high the surface speed would be at the stylus, and how impossible it must be for the stylus to mechanically keep track of all that information, and could perhaps be introducing other artifacts like more surface noise perhaps?
Either way, the technology is quite remarkable.
I need to go through my audio files.... I thought I already replied to you.
The trick will be to figure out how to send it since I tend to record on LP at a side and I don't bother to split it into tracks. That's too much work.
Wait until the weekend.
Is it legal to upload the files into this forum?
thanks. i must have missed your specific reply... it's been an avalanche of information for what i first thought was a mere simple problem requiring just a simple solution lol. Not to worry, I'm still going back and re-reading posts as i'm not able to process it all in one go.
That's pretty much what I did as well. I didn't even do any post processing as I'm still learning how to use Audacity.
thanks
it's no rush. i can wait 
i was just worried perhaps it was too much of a favour to ask 
either way, i'll be sure to listen back-to-back against my recordings and your recordings to try and experience it as much as possible. Even though it wont be the same songs, but you wouldn't happen to have any version of "Time After Time" by Cyndi Lauper or any other covers by different artists? As I have that same song recorded on mine from Disk 2, Side A, Track 2 @5:37Maybe technically not per se... But for such an old song, (isn't for commercial gain, widespread piracy/distribution, plus is freely available on Youtube anyway) I really don't think anyone will care. I honestly wouldn't be concerned... but maybe forum moderators could confirm if they're ok with it? After all, I did, and 100 replies later, it's still fine. But if you're really worried about it, you could always DM me a top secret private link to your google drive, MS Onedrive, mega upload, dropbox etc etc. and then just delete it after an hour or so.
Legally, you're free to upload to Youtube as it will automatically be scanned and tagged under licence, with any view/ad revenue going directly to the record company. However Youtube has pretty lousy compression, so not suitable for hi-res.
20 minutes (average) per side is pushing the "goodness" (increased signal to noise and dynamic range) out of the increased speed advantage, a high performance 12" 45rpm would be less than half that length.
The vinyl pre-master "standard" has become 24 bit 96kHz WAV or AIFF format files.
Each step of the cutting and pressing process in the creation of a vinyl record is a reduction in quality from the original master recording, while a digital file can be duplicated with no degradation at all.
Each pressing reduces the quality of the stamper.
Each playback of the vinyl record reduces it's quality, while also degrading the stylus.
Each vinyl record playback system, regardless of design or cost has "built in" problems converting the mechanical tracking of the stylus into an electrical analog faithful to the original.
The technology is quite remarkable in that despite all the distortion of the original signal, when the record is brand new and clean it can still sound reasonably close to the source it came from, provided that source was mixed and mastered for the limitations of the medium.
That said, it is not uncommon for performers or their management to accept marginally performing test pressings rather than pay for the expense (and months of delay..) of re-cutting the master.
Art
Sorry to pressure you by raising the stakes... But just this morning I picked up broken Rotel RD-960BX for $50usd and a sealed 1994 TDK MA-110... and I'm about to foolishly declare that tape is better than vinyl 😛 Unfortunately once that happens, we all know there's no going back 😛