Don´t know if we missunderstand eachother about my Beyma 12BR70 suggestion, i mean to replace the Omega pro15a he is using.
So insted of the 15 inch options !Omega pro15a or SM-115N or LX60, i think 1 & 2 in paralell 12 inch Beyma 12BR70 will do a better job up to 5-600hz and to meet the PR170M0.
(English is not my native language, so i don´t always "get it all" in all postings)...but trying
/Jawen
Same problem as you with my frenglish.
How is the low of this 12 vs a 15 ? Does the room will give enough gain to figth the extra Fs of a 12" vis a vis of a 15"?
How is the low of this 12 vs a 15 ? Does the room will give enough gain to figth the extra Fs of a 12" vis a vis of a 15"?
They both have about the same FS ( Omega 33 vs Beyma 31 ), and not "much" to work with in the Omega´s 4,8 mm XMAX.
But even if the Beyma is "only" max 250 W, the Beyma 12BR70 ha almost x2 on XMAX and also work in smaller cabinettes.
/Jawen
ha!
weird as i have a pair of 12BR70. having the Omega Pro 15a side by side, the 12BR70 looks and feels like a toy. thanks for the recommendation but Ill stick with 15"s 🙂
Not much luck, the Beyma SM-115n is discontinued as well as the 18" woofer beyma i wanted to try.
I guess im back with the Omega pro 15a and will only use this woofer. Might eventually try a JBL 2226 just for the fun
Have you even listened on the Beyma 12BR70 in a well suited box/cabinette ?
Don´t let only size and weight fool you, you be amazed how good some of "the smaller" woofer-drivers can sound and how deep they go.
Everything is about implementation and to get the "best" out of the driver.
Personally, i´ve event don´t start a DIY-project with a woofer like the Eminence Omega pro15a with only 4,8 mm in XMAX, because you have almost "nothing" to work with because woofers need to move air.
And maby you´r fine with speakers sounding from only 50 hz and up that don´t have any "low end", but that´s not "my cup of tee"
/Jawen
with normal music, how loud do you think you need to listen to hit the xmaxx long enough to hurt the omega 15a? 120db?
ive just been told even the Beyma 15lx60v2 vs the Pro 15a wouldnt give anything better even though its rated at 35hz vs 50hz, same with SM-115n.
do you think the Beyma SM-115n would give better extension?My measurements show that the omega pro 15a are flat down to about 40hz in my 180L cab...
ive lived with 12br70 for a few years. a single unit cannot compare to a 15's. its decent but in my design using that woofer is impossible as the baffle hole is already made for the 15's
thx for the recommendation
so you disagree with Jawen that suggest my Omega pro 15a probably are limiting in extension?
you dont think the SM-115n could go lower in my cabinet then the Omega pro 15a?
I ask cause wWinsd doesnt seem to have the Beyma woofers so cannot simul it...
I come from the school that would suggset if you need lots of Xmax at normal level playing, aka if your woofers are moving a lot during normal playback, something is wrong in your design. Even at 100db, i barely see the woofer moving.
Im starting to be confused about what your saying actually. Talking about the Omega pro 15a in 180L like it doesnt give "any low end" is crazy talk.
Have YOU ever heard Eminence omega pro 15a in a 180L?
Of course you can play very loud with the Omega 15a youknowyou, i don't hesitate that hahaha 😉
And 180 L cab is "a real" big one 👍, what port tuning frequency?, or do you use sealed box?
For me "the foundation" in the music (when i listening on speakers) the sound between 16-35 hz. (with the room´s help)
Hard to explain but it "fills the room" coming from floor-hight/level and builds up against you, and makes the music so much more "real/dramatic/better"....Hard to get the smile out of your face when you listen.
My own "hunt" before for 15 inch woofers was a real hard ball.....Ending up with "the only choice" the Dayton RSS390HO-4
But they are still in the boxes 🙄...so little energi left in my body due to pain and back and neck problems, so have to choose where i put my energi.
Also have 4 pieses of Faital pro XL1600 18 inch woofer that i test i a few different "box-versions", but need sooo much power to "bloom"!
/Jawen
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100dB dosen`t tell me anything about the sound it self, but of course it´s loud.
And it is never my intention to upset or belittle anyone on the planet, im from Sweden and English is not my native, so sometimes "bad" regarding to explain things and also understand exactly.
I´m sorry if you fell affended youknowyou, it´s was never my intention.
And i haven´t heard omega pro 15a in a 180L box.
/Jawen
oh no, not offended at all, just confused but I really enjoy your help and your recommendations.
as you can see, some of what you said about woofer interest me a lot and i go from what you tell me to further my understanding.
sadly the Beyma sm-115n is discontinue. I will probably then only try the 15lx60v2. I should also seek some jbl 2226 and try in my design
lets just say, i have no real feelings about the Omega pro 15 and if theres something better I want it 🙂
thx a lot for your winsd files!!!!
very interesting!, im thinking of doing a 18" + audax mid + hivi rt2ha.
do you feel all 18" woofers need to reach a certain SPL before sounding right?
Don´t belive it´s a certain SPL before driver sounding "right", even if fed power/watt´s rase the SPL
In your case i think your woofer will come "more alive", when the cone moving so it distinctly visible with your eye (maby from about 200 watt)
I try to shortly explane how my experiences/listening-sessions/conclusions about subwoofer and woofer driver is.
Like a car engine the motor/engine work´s best from about half power and up, and have not "much to give" in the low rpm or highest up regarding to rpm.
I perceive roughly the same "existing" in sub and woofer drivers, they most often sound poorly/dead/dull before they begain "to breathe properly"/move/receives sufficient power fed to it.
And the stronger the engine/motor the woofer have, the more power you have to "throw at them" before they begain to "live/breath/work properly.
Almost all "big" woofer´s have real hard "suspension" AND big motor´s, so getting them to "play out" often need´s a lot´s of power from amp.
And the implements of that driver (if you succed) is going to be "real hard" regarding finding a suited midrange and tweeter.
So from now on i only look´s for 200-500 watt´s woofer driver´s in my DIY, because the +800 watt´s woofer drivers is to hard to get implementeted in a speakerbuild. ( isen´t even easy in a complement sub integated with your speakers)
Old big 15 inch JBL drivers was much more "musical" and "a live", but they was "max power" like 125-175 watt with sensitivity around 96dB.
I have 2 pieses of JBL 2215h and they are amoung the best ivé heard as mid-bass, but they don´t go low enough.
And all obove is just my own opinion!
/Jawen
No it's not that I disagree - basically I'm saying that subjectively the results will be fairly similar. Slightly more low freq. extension rarely has much to do with an audible improvement. (..a full octave near the average will of course.)
BTW, you can put the T/S parameters of the Beyma woofers into winISD and model. I believe it's in the "Database Maintenance" tab for adding "your own" drivers.
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-and overall is mine as well.
This is largely about the resting resistance of the driver's suspension.
Kms is the term applied to this. Resting resistance is how stiff the suspension is at 0mm's of displacement.
Ex. 15" pro woofer
https://audioxpress.com/assets/uplo...11200_Figure7-BCSpeakers-15DS100Subwoofer.jpg
Ex. 6.5" HiFi woofer
https://audioxpress.com/assets/upload/images/1/20210728193111_Figure9-PurifiAudio-PTT6-5XWoofer.png
About the contrast between static friction and dynamic friction, the term is stiction.
Greets!
Coming late to the 'party' and only experience with the Audax is from auditioning some DIY ones back when it was the 'hot ticket' and not particularly impressed compared to some smaller 'FR' Jordans, but this was with 'finished' speakers, so not really a mids comparison; out of curiosity though I calc'd a ~196 cm^2 Sd driver for 300-1.6 kHz and in a quick search found this Faital Pro 8FE200 to be closest at 191 cm^2 and sure looks good enough spec-wise to consider it, so curious if anyone can comment Vs these other popular ones listed?
something like Faital 15fh500 would seem perfect in my application then?
https://usspeaker.com/faital pro 15FH500-1.htm