They do use a modified version in the 4367 where they added mass and lowered the FS. I can understand you being skeptical all I can say is using a pair at home they are dynamic as hell. I am from the larger driver less diaphragm movement school of thought. I have both Multi small woofer systems Revel F 206 and 14" and 15" woofer systems and the larger systems sound better to me. They just loafing and barely moving @ 10 watts and chasing you out of the room at the same time.
I have always wondered about the audibility of power compression at lower levels. I know Earl Geddes was concerned and Greg Timbers as well so I am not sure if this is what I am hearing of just the fact that out of all the 15" drivers I have owned these are my new favorites. Subjective for sure but sometimes that's all you got but looking at the Klippel measurements in the M2 review at Erins Audio Corner it's looks darn good.
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No they don't, they're just a consistent and known reference.
No, I'm saying I doubt that the NTC wiring has any actual benefit at domestic levels (as in audibly detectable) any more than the myriad other pro drivers I own(ed) and use(d) that use coils wound with pure Cu or Cu plated Al.
Ditto and have been for over 3 decades. My last set of mains were using a pair of AE TD15s ea and a Unity, and before that a 2226/2123/CP380M+horn WMTMW tower, both with large subs.
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I was not thrilled with any of those ceramic drivers from Accuton.
Ribbons ar enice, but most have issues crossing low enuff.
My reaction to the Bordeaux is blah…
https://www.speakerhardware.com/prodimages/cab/sdw/Bordeaux%201.jpg[img]
dave
So, "is a pair of $300 each woofers necessarily better than a pair of $60 each woofers?". It depends on the design goal and in Jim's case the answer is "NO". So, after 5 pages, there is your answer and we can end this thread 🙂 But if there was a different design goal...reach a much lower F3, attain a much higher max SPL, or reach the same performance in a much smaller cabinet, then the RS225s are no longer the best option. And to reach some of those other goals may require a much more expensive woofer.
As you state, for Jim's design goals he is "about as good as he can get" and didn't know how to "get a lot better bass." One of his design goals is a reasonably priced speaker and the Dayton's nail that. And he admits he can get better bass, but just a little better at maybe a lot more cost. By the way, someone at Parts Express Tech Talk claims the MCM 55-5670s out perform the RS225s in every way and are cheaper.
I said "claims". Otherwise I would have said "demonstrates" or "backs up with data". I have never used or heard the MCM so have no opinion. I just thought it was a good example related to the OP that price isn't always a perfect indicator, especially given a specific design goal.
Edit: I can back up that's it's cheaper 🤣
It was a curiosity question because the MCM is cheaper locally, but not by a whole lot, and if it was good or better, I'd have tried it.
You kind of walked into that one. If 'perfection' is the way the engineer heard it, and the way the artist wants you to hear it, NS10s are the way to go. But here's a true irony, evidence of how people with no 'training' or software inherently know how output is supposed to sound. All those 'disco boys' of the 80s and 90s who consistently set their graphic equalizers in the shape of a smiley-face, they were compensating for the deficiencies of the NS10 (+5dB in the mids).
Yes, NS10s were a point of reference - once. And were the standard for popular genres but with new genres involving sub-bass engineers had to 'guess'. This is why reggae and hip-hop tracks from the era have inconsistent volumes in the bass track because NS10s has very little interest in producing much below 70hz.
The person who posted that has built a lot of speakers and used a lot of drivers so he does have some credibility. And he wasn't saying all MCM drivers are good or particularly good for the money but that one is a little bit of a hidden gem.
Not at all. I've spent a bit of time in studios over the years and your post really doesn't make a lot of sense.
Some of us just can't fit those sort of drivers and their cabinets (or baffles) into our listening rooms. But allways nice to dream 😀
One can only answer this question if they know how to make correct bass in a room. A speaker won't sound right without setup. Keeping this in mind will help you interpret and control your thread.
The OP is seeking reaffirmation, as it is often the case in forums.
An 8" in a box is only good for casual listening, no matter 💵💶💷
(except near field perhaps, but then there is headphones)
If you are after a meditative experience, you need a sound that is big (soundstage), musical (dynamics) and real.... a sound that can pull you away from daily worries and tickle your deepest emotions.
For a while, I had a dual 18" PPSL infinite baffle subwoofer. Bass was deep, explosive and just WOW. But it was also gimmicky and a distraction. It was good for the other end of the spectrum: "I was blown away" listening.
I am now using single 18" per side, heavy H frame OBs. Bass guitar, acoustic bass and piano sound big, musical and real. Lorn doesn't trigger my PTSD and nothing rattles.
An 8" in a box is only good for casual listening, no matter 💵💶💷
(except near field perhaps, but then there is headphones)
If you are after a meditative experience, you need a sound that is big (soundstage), musical (dynamics) and real.... a sound that can pull you away from daily worries and tickle your deepest emotions.
For a while, I had a dual 18" PPSL infinite baffle subwoofer. Bass was deep, explosive and just WOW. But it was also gimmicky and a distraction. It was good for the other end of the spectrum: "I was blown away" listening.
I am now using single 18" per side, heavy H frame OBs. Bass guitar, acoustic bass and piano sound big, musical and real. Lorn doesn't trigger my PTSD and nothing rattles.
That's a very strong statement and one I really cannot agree with. If you have a huge room in a home despot kit build (so mainly wooden) I can understand you need more displacement, but for those of us with more meagre rooms made of brick we can get away with less.
Meditation normally requires calm and quiet, not rattling the foundations...
Soundstage is an interesting one as there is an argument for sub-bass helping to open up the room for live orchestral recordings, but for studio work I don't see it. To me the room matters more than the size of your woofer.
Dynamics: Guess if you are lucky enough to get live mic feeds before compression to listen to, but those of us who have to listen to commercial recordings have to deal with stuff that has very little in the way of dynamics.