Hi all,
I am building a large floorstanding box with removable baffle that will house several different drivers and topologies, first a 2,5/3 way with AL170*2 AL130M and waveguided tweeter. Another speaker that will be built on another baffle is a 2,5 way with 8" HDS 830869*2 and waveguided tweeter, and when im satisfied with the HDS speaker an idea i got was to try out a dome as a midrange between the 8's and tweeter that possibly not going to be waveguided.
Tweeters intended to be tested are my current HDS tweeters in my Elsinore's, SB26ADC, SB21SDC and hopefully also the new DA25BG08-06.
The idea behind using a dome mid os to try out a speaker that is spreading as wide as possible as high up in frequency as possible and to see what that does to the sound against the more common controlled directivity a waveguide gives, as this might be hard to comprehend but all my speakers i have own have had some form of waveguide.
But whats out on the market thats is good? And hopefully somewhat cheap? Lets say preferably under 100$/100€ but if something a bit more expensive is really good then please post it!
Also please post your input on use of the driver and what you think about it!
Best regards from a cold place where the winter is coming...
I am building a large floorstanding box with removable baffle that will house several different drivers and topologies, first a 2,5/3 way with AL170*2 AL130M and waveguided tweeter. Another speaker that will be built on another baffle is a 2,5 way with 8" HDS 830869*2 and waveguided tweeter, and when im satisfied with the HDS speaker an idea i got was to try out a dome as a midrange between the 8's and tweeter that possibly not going to be waveguided.
Tweeters intended to be tested are my current HDS tweeters in my Elsinore's, SB26ADC, SB21SDC and hopefully also the new DA25BG08-06.
The idea behind using a dome mid os to try out a speaker that is spreading as wide as possible as high up in frequency as possible and to see what that does to the sound against the more common controlled directivity a waveguide gives, as this might be hard to comprehend but all my speakers i have own have had some form of waveguide.
But whats out on the market thats is good? And hopefully somewhat cheap? Lets say preferably under 100$/100€ but if something a bit more expensive is really good then please post it!
Also please post your input on use of the driver and what you think about it!
Best regards from a cold place where the winter is coming...
Bliesma are developing a new series of 3” dome but I suspect they will be double your budget for the silk/soft dome and the Berillium dome will need you to sell a kidney. Morel would be my first choice, should work from around 750-5khz max, it’s brother the EM1308 gives you a little more low end but is more expensive.
I've always wondered how good the Visaton dome mids are. You might want to check them out, though they are probably out of your price range.
I'd stay away from the Dayton RS52 series.
I'd stay away from the Dayton RS52 series.
^It's not.
The Dayton was at one time rather excellent, but production quality has become rather poor:
Driver Evaluations for a new project - Page 10
Really, the only new dome mid. that I'm aware of is the SB Acoustics "filler" driver. Everything else is the same that it has been from at least a decade and a half ago.
21/2″ SATORI MD60N-6 / Fabric - Sbacoustics
Satori MD60N-6 | HiFiCompass
The Dayton was at one time rather excellent, but production quality has become rather poor:
Driver Evaluations for a new project - Page 10
Really, the only new dome mid. that I'm aware of is the SB Acoustics "filler" driver. Everything else is the same that it has been from at least a decade and a half ago.
21/2″ SATORI MD60N-6 / Fabric - Sbacoustics
Satori MD60N-6 | HiFiCompass
Last edited:
As a massive fan of dome mids, I'd give the following advice to spare you from wasting money and time.
The Dayton RS52AN - although not a bad deal for what you get, it has production tolerance issues to start with, but a deal breaker for me is elevated odd order HD in the critical 2-5 k area that is higher than the 2nd order HD. It looks good on paper FR wise, but it sounds antiseptic and non-musical to my ears. The ringing peak up top has to be suppressed if you want to run it higher than 4 k LR2.
The Morel MDM55 or CAM558 (round faceplate) - this is a warm sounding driver with good power handling, but can't be crossed lower than 800 LR4 or 1000 LR2 to get the best from it. You can cross lower for limited SPL situations but odd order HD starts killing the magic. Otherwise it has a nice controlled top end rolloff with very little to complain about in the CSD plot. Mates well with 90 dB sensitivity drivers but may need attenuating if using BSC on the LF driver or with shallower crossover slopes due to bandpass overlap gain.
The Vifa D75MX-41 (SS D7608-9200) - this one is a temperamental driver that can sound amazing with the right filtering and supporting drivers. Its achilles heel is the limited xmax, so you can't cross lower then 900-1000 LR2 to get the most performance and musicality, plus it must be used with a carefully dampened rear chamber of about 1.5 liters to get its Qts down to under .9 (medium density sheeps wool is best or loosely rolled grille cloth right up against the magnet). In most cases you will need to attenuate it using LF drivers with less than 90 dB sensitivity after applying BSC and especially with shallow filter slopes.
The HIVI DMB-A - nice dome considering the $30 price point. Don't even think of crossing lower than 1000 LR2 as it has little output due to high Fs. If this is ok, it sounds really detailed and somewhat warm to boot. Needs an efficient LF driver that can play clean past 1.5k, which rules out anything larger than an 8 inch woofer. Top end rolloff of the dome is not as clean as the other 2 inch domes.
The Satori MD60N - this one was rather disappointing after having high hopes. The price tag is a deal breaker considering the excess THD if you expect a transparent and open presentation. It works great with rock and pop with its colored sound, if that's your thing. I've honestly heard better cone mid drivers for the price, discounting the limited dispersion on top of course. It is however a very efficient mid and has its place in the market, but the price/performance ratio isn't there IMO.
The Dayton RS52AN - although not a bad deal for what you get, it has production tolerance issues to start with, but a deal breaker for me is elevated odd order HD in the critical 2-5 k area that is higher than the 2nd order HD. It looks good on paper FR wise, but it sounds antiseptic and non-musical to my ears. The ringing peak up top has to be suppressed if you want to run it higher than 4 k LR2.
The Morel MDM55 or CAM558 (round faceplate) - this is a warm sounding driver with good power handling, but can't be crossed lower than 800 LR4 or 1000 LR2 to get the best from it. You can cross lower for limited SPL situations but odd order HD starts killing the magic. Otherwise it has a nice controlled top end rolloff with very little to complain about in the CSD plot. Mates well with 90 dB sensitivity drivers but may need attenuating if using BSC on the LF driver or with shallower crossover slopes due to bandpass overlap gain.
The Vifa D75MX-41 (SS D7608-9200) - this one is a temperamental driver that can sound amazing with the right filtering and supporting drivers. Its achilles heel is the limited xmax, so you can't cross lower then 900-1000 LR2 to get the most performance and musicality, plus it must be used with a carefully dampened rear chamber of about 1.5 liters to get its Qts down to under .9 (medium density sheeps wool is best or loosely rolled grille cloth right up against the magnet). In most cases you will need to attenuate it using LF drivers with less than 90 dB sensitivity after applying BSC and especially with shallow filter slopes.
The HIVI DMB-A - nice dome considering the $30 price point. Don't even think of crossing lower than 1000 LR2 as it has little output due to high Fs. If this is ok, it sounds really detailed and somewhat warm to boot. Needs an efficient LF driver that can play clean past 1.5k, which rules out anything larger than an 8 inch woofer. Top end rolloff of the dome is not as clean as the other 2 inch domes.
The Satori MD60N - this one was rather disappointing after having high hopes. The price tag is a deal breaker considering the excess THD if you expect a transparent and open presentation. It works great with rock and pop with its colored sound, if that's your thing. I've honestly heard better cone mid drivers for the price, discounting the limited dispersion on top of course. It is however a very efficient mid and has its place in the market, but the price/performance ratio isn't there IMO.
This is nice, kinda pricey though…..there’s a 3” version also but the 2” looks more behaved just a little less sensitivity.
Volt Loudspeakers | VM527 (2″ Midrange Dome)
Volt Loudspeakers | VM527 (2″ Midrange Dome)
Attachments
I agree with profiguy, except for the HiVi...
I've used the HiVi DMN-A to roughly 850Hz. It *ABSOLUTELY MUST* have an LCR across it for the Fs, but then it is able to use 12dB electrical slopes to flatten it out on both ends. It is very similar to the DMB-A in operation and application.
Wolf
I've used the HiVi DMN-A to roughly 850Hz. It *ABSOLUTELY MUST* have an LCR across it for the Fs, but then it is able to use 12dB electrical slopes to flatten it out on both ends. It is very similar to the DMB-A in operation and application.
Wolf
ATLANTIS MK II
Art. No. 5950
The ATLANTIS has been consistently designed for optimum sound-pressure rating while retaining a moderately sized cabinet and an elegant appearance. In the bass range, two AL 170 - 8 OHM are mounted in parallel but in separate housings, where each has about 27 l of air space to itself. These speakers have a lower limiting frequency of 28 Hz meaning that they generate good, solid deep bass. Where you position the speakers is more or less a matter of choice, but they should not be right against the wall (a minimum of 10 cm is needed) as otherwise the effect of the bass reflex tubes will suffer.
Compared with the 'normal' AL 130 - 8 OHM, the AL 130 M - 8 OHM is equipped with a shorter voice coil. This improves efficiency and makes it the ideal choice in this combination.
ATLANTIS MK II | Visaton
Bauanleitung | Visaton
===========
"The idea behind using a dome mid is to try out a speaker that is spreading as wide as possible as high up in frequency as possible and to see what that does to the sound against the more common controlled directivity a waveguide gives"
The B&W Nautilus cabinet sphere(s) for the midrange and tweeter are designed to minimize front cabinet reflections and generate a "full room soundstage". Read the B&W tech papers .... you might agree with their philosophy.
The DMN-A has a large back chamber which allows it to go lower. The DMB-A has virtually no extra air space behind its motor, so it isn't capable of crossing under 1000 without a steep slope and LCR.
The DMNa iused was part of the TM1a, and was capped only, without chamber per se.
I stand by my previous statements,
Wolf
I stand by my previous statements,
Wolf
I'm just pointing out the difference. Didn't realize this was a different spec DMN-A than usual. Of course it may work with an LCR crossed lower. It all depends on multiple factors whether it will fly and what sound your ok with IOW not black and white.
https://test.hivi.com/product/view?id=168
A new entrance, I believe, and it seems like a 3" dome
Has anybody seen it or worked with it? It seems to go low enough
A new entrance, I believe, and it seems like a 3" dome
Has anybody seen it or worked with it? It seems to go low enough
I've just ordered some Ciare HM500 2" dome mids to try. Probably won't arrive until after Christmas though...
@wolf_teeth posted these Hivi 3” on PETT today, looks interesting and decent price.
https://test.hivi.com/product/view?id=168
https://test.hivi.com/product/view?id=168
This driver looks interesting. Lots of bandwidth, looks like it'd be easy to crossover passively. Low efficiency.
https://ampslab.com/blog/2020/09/28/peerless-gbs85/
https://ampslab.com/blog/2021/03/22/swallow-ap/
Regarding the purpose:
"The idea behind using a dome mid os to try out a speaker that is spreading as wide as possible as high up in frequency as possible"
It is my understanding that domes don't actually do this. A 5cm dome and a 5cm cone have similar polar plots / dispersion.
https://ampslab.com/blog/2020/09/28/peerless-gbs85/
https://ampslab.com/blog/2021/03/22/swallow-ap/
Regarding the purpose:
"The idea behind using a dome mid os to try out a speaker that is spreading as wide as possible as high up in frequency as possible"
It is my understanding that domes don't actually do this. A 5cm dome and a 5cm cone have similar polar plots / dispersion.
Looks like they designed it to meet the pioneer's goal of flat from 500 - 3 kHz.
I got that from post #15 above and posted over there so PETT members could see it. From what I'm seeing on that website, the drivers listed are priced higher than retail over here, so it may even cost LESS than that reasonable price.
Wolf