Gooled brought me to DIY discussion on
wood cone performance in wide bands
read 1st post.
**beautiful***
I agree, wood is the perfect material for wide bands, but then TB2145 has some sort of bamboo fiber and also has incredible perf in producing bass fq's.
I just prefer wood.
AER has some sort of paper composite, which also I am confident makes nice bass notes.
each jhis own.
But given a choice, wood.
Tight clean, and dampens unwanted resonances, Stiff yet pliable.
Vox's wood cone fetches 5G's, their paper cones 2G's-3G's.
Also Vox employs wood in their Alinco speaker and 1 of their FC speakers.
So that says something about wood.
Wooden Cone
wood cone performance in wide bands
read 1st post.
**beautiful***
I agree, wood is the perfect material for wide bands, but then TB2145 has some sort of bamboo fiber and also has incredible perf in producing bass fq's.
I just prefer wood.
AER has some sort of paper composite, which also I am confident makes nice bass notes.
each jhis own.
But given a choice, wood.
Tight clean, and dampens unwanted resonances, Stiff yet pliable.
Vox's wood cone fetches 5G's, their paper cones 2G's-3G's.
Also Vox employs wood in their Alinco speaker and 1 of their FC speakers.
So that says something about wood.
Wooden Cone
If i remember, 80% of a cone is basically goop (dried glue ?).
let alone coating on top of a driver's cone...……………….
I'm partial to some of morel's woofs (poly + talc powder).
I think there is great potential with stiffened poly (pick your materials).
I think someone said "lightly drag back of fingernail on a cone. What you hear is its cone cry."
resonance ?
Maybe it is the sound the driver makes when any flexing going on of the cone, idk.
Kevlar done right may be an option too.
Lowest Price for Kevlar woofers by Rival Acoustics – Rhythm Audio Design
anyone ?
let alone coating on top of a driver's cone...……………….
I'm partial to some of morel's woofs (poly + talc powder).
I think there is great potential with stiffened poly (pick your materials).
I think someone said "lightly drag back of fingernail on a cone. What you hear is its cone cry."
resonance ?
Maybe it is the sound the driver makes when any flexing going on of the cone, idk.
Kevlar done right may be an option too.
Lowest Price for Kevlar woofers by Rival Acoustics – Rhythm Audio Design
anyone ?
Last edited:
How often have we heard
**Wide bands lack punchy bass, clean crystal highs***
= Dis-information.
maybe in the past 20 yrs ago,, But not now
Here , tight bass, clean highs.
Dacidlouis VX8m, bass, highs, perfect rendition of Stevie's vocals - YouTube
**Wide bands lack punchy bass, clean crystal highs***
= Dis-information.
maybe in the past 20 yrs ago,, But not now
Here , tight bass, clean highs.
Dacidlouis VX8m, bass, highs, perfect rendition of Stevie's vocals - YouTube
Hmm, we ideally want the driver pistonic up to the driver's VC diameter, so with a typical 1" = ~ 4311 Hz, so plenty stiff, non resonant ['critically' damped] and at this point it's TL modes SoS traveling on, and in [preferably just on], the diaphragm's material sets it HF response out to where it's damped at the surround with the DC/whatever beaming or 'broadcasting' its extreme HF depending on the design.
Unfortunately, what construction is best for pistonic isn't for its TL modes and why there's so many diverse performing wide range drivers to choose from, so this is where the whizzer/whatever comes into play and if these drivers have a 2" VC = 2155 Hz, then the whizzer needs to be large enough to be a problematic design exercise on a relatively small driver, ergo if it really does have one and performs well, then this is where most of its sonic 'magic' resides since DC and rigid piston design are a modern manufacturer's relatively inexpensive trivial pursuit.
Unfortunately, what construction is best for pistonic isn't for its TL modes and why there's so many diverse performing wide range drivers to choose from, so this is where the whizzer/whatever comes into play and if these drivers have a 2" VC = 2155 Hz, then the whizzer needs to be large enough to be a problematic design exercise on a relatively small driver, ergo if it really does have one and performs well, then this is where most of its sonic 'magic' resides since DC and rigid piston design are a modern manufacturer's relatively inexpensive trivial pursuit.
PS: most paper is made with wood fiber.
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Well paper in MADE FROM wood.
But anything paper/paper composite has hints of the old paper woofers we used to listen to back in the 70;'s.
They all sound OK, but in small rooms, and near field, the paper sound can get on my nerves after awhile on certain recordings.
I think Seas came up with a genius of an idea with magnesium.
Gives up Scanspeaks deep punchy bass in percussions.
but softens the upper bass/low mids nasty , aggravating resonances.
btw I ran the W18E001's full range , no xover,,, the W18E001 are only good up to 1400hz/1600hz.
That driver definetly needs to be tamed,,
IMHO the Seas magnesium is a perfect match as a woofer assist for adding bass to a WBer.
Its not forward at all, and matches the WBer's neutral characterists. They blend seamless.
Whereas a paper Scan, will not mesh as well.
A woofer can't be too warm to work as a woofer assist witha WBer.
has to have a recessed sound. Soft bass.
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Well paper in MADE FROM wood.
But anything paper/paper composite has hints of the old paper woofers we used to listen to back in the 70;'s.
They all sound OK, but in small rooms, and near field, the paper sound can get on my nerves after awhile on certain recordings.
I think Seas came up with a genius of an idea with magnesium.
Gives up Scanspeaks deep punchy bass in percussions.
but softens the upper bass/low mids nasty , aggravating resonances.
btw I ran the W18E001's full range , no xover,,, the W18E001 are only good up to 1400hz/1600hz.
That driver definetly needs to be tamed,,
IMHO the Seas magnesium is a perfect match as a woofer assist for adding bass to a WBer.
Its not forward at all, and matches the WBer's neutral characterists. They blend seamless.
Whereas a paper Scan, will not mesh as well.
A woofer can't be too warm to work as a woofer assist witha WBer.
has to have a recessed sound. Soft bass.
Certainly many FR do not do bass or top if they can do either. But the best are certainly capable. Does need a good box.
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Not interested in any WBer which lacks the 40hz and at least 12khz before roll off.
Not looking for below 40hz, and not interested in above 12khz.
8's seem to be the perfect cone size.
All these 10's, (Cube with 2-3 whizzzer cones @ $$$$$$..??) 12's, Audio Nirvana (no longer in business, ) Lii speakers, many other 10-15 inch wide bands, have no fidelity.
They are big and cheap, Folks think they will get deep powerful bass.
I'd say most WBers made in china are garbage.
I hope some of my experiements help others avoid these low fidelity WBers and stay with proven winners.
I don't see a box size as all that important.
These speakers at low SPL will work just fine in whatever box one decides.
I like 40-50 liter for the 2 mentioned, witha bottom port. Some attic insulation (thin, I use 1/3 of original thickness )along back wall.
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Not interested in any WBer which lacks the 40hz and at least 12khz before roll off.
Not looking for below 40hz, and not interested in above 12khz.
8's seem to be the perfect cone size.
All these 10's, (Cube with 2-3 whizzzer cones @ $$$$$$..??) 12's, Audio Nirvana (no longer in business, ) Lii speakers, many other 10-15 inch wide bands, have no fidelity.
They are big and cheap, Folks think they will get deep powerful bass.
I'd say most WBers made in china are garbage.
I hope some of my experiements help others avoid these low fidelity WBers and stay with proven winners.
I don't see a box size as all that important.
These speakers at low SPL will work just fine in whatever box one decides.
I like 40-50 liter for the 2 mentioned, witha bottom port. Some attic insulation (thin, I use 1/3 of original thickness )along back wall.
Some papers.
Making paper out of wood is a modern technique. But not the only material used.
All the old texts are still around these days because the paper was made from linen rags/waste… in those days mostly hemp.
There are literally millions of paper recipes. Many, many with no wood in them.
Trying to make a generalization about something that has such a gigantic variety of performance and charateristics is quite “out-to-lunch”.
dave
Many can do that.
IME generally too big. Sweet spot 4-6” is where the best i have heard hang out.
Box is very important. As is the room. Box size is a function of the driver. And pretty much follows Hoffman’s Iron Law.
dave
Over at the other site, Agon,,looks like I;m getting lots of flach sheels shot at my comments.
Guy cllims
**most of us here have heard the wide bands...we know what they can do...***
Perhaps a few heard the Tang band 1808 and 1772's.
I think the newer model trumps both earlier speakers,, The TB2145 may be the best 8 especially at that price.
I told him this.
I also noted, none have heard the Davidlouis VX8, much less even aware it exists.
I don't see WBers as a alternative to xover low sens types. I actually see high tech 8 WBers as the ultimae speaker of choice for classical muisc, and also a must have for jazz music fans.
You can tell I'm sold out on this fanaticism over these WBers.
And not willing to budge an inch.
He says,,**its not like we've not heard WBers..**
Well why so rarely ever talked about on this site????|
Waiting for his reply.
I see low sens/xover types drivers as assists for WBers extention and padding bottom and highs.
Nada mas.
2nd fiddles , the star of the show is the WBers.
Guy cllims
**most of us here have heard the wide bands...we know what they can do...***
Perhaps a few heard the Tang band 1808 and 1772's.
I think the newer model trumps both earlier speakers,, The TB2145 may be the best 8 especially at that price.
I told him this.
I also noted, none have heard the Davidlouis VX8, much less even aware it exists.
I don't see WBers as a alternative to xover low sens types. I actually see high tech 8 WBers as the ultimae speaker of choice for classical muisc, and also a must have for jazz music fans.
You can tell I'm sold out on this fanaticism over these WBers.
And not willing to budge an inch.
He says,,**its not like we've not heard WBers..**
Well why so rarely ever talked about on this site????|
Waiting for his reply.
I see low sens/xover types drivers as assists for WBers extention and padding bottom and highs.
Nada mas.
2nd fiddles , the star of the show is the WBers.
Based on limiting music range to classical music this means going down to a contrabassoon's 29 Hz up to the violin's 16 kHz, so its acoustic power mean [apm] = [29*16000]^0.5 = ~ 681.18 Hz = ~ 13543/pi/681.18 = ~ 6.33" diaphragm diameter, so closest to an 8" = need a BLH to do it any justice.
For the VX8's published 50 Hz Fs = ~ 4.82" = 6", so a bit too large.
But historically, bass is > 60 Hz, so shifts [apm] = ~ 979.8 Hz = ~ 4.4" diaphragm diameter = ~ 5.25", i.e. the size of the once very popular RS 40-1354 that for many gave sufficient bass in a relatively modest size vented pipe alignment.
Anyway, one can pick their driver size this way based on desired BW or vice versa to zero in on which drivers work best overall for their intended app.
As much as I prefer a 15" all by its lonesome, the bottom line is that they really need to be some form of three way to meet the appropriate [apm]s just as RCA proved with its LC-1A otherwise there's too much distortion regardless of whether or not it's euphonic to some, so very much a niche group.
I'll take exception to that. I think a few other Lii owners would as well.
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I only heard their old model Fast8.
With that rust color PLASTIC!!! phase plug.
I sold it off next day at 50% off what I paid.
Its was cheap on price and so pulled the trigger based ona chat forums PM who said it was a excellent performer.
Cheap price = cheap sound..(not alwasy true the TB2145 $250 and has high fidelity)
IMHO the **new* models looks about same construct as old.
I;'m not buying in.
IMHO the TB2145 and DLVX8 both easily trump anything offered by Lii.
I could be wrong.
2 Cents is all I have
LII has alot of these 10,12,15 inchers, Sorry not interested.
What kind of bass are we acutally hearing from these extra large cones???
Low fidelity is my guess.
All my above might add up to just 2 cents.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
I only heard their old model Fast8.
With that rust color PLASTIC!!! phase plug.
I sold it off next day at 50% off what I paid.
Its was cheap on price and so pulled the trigger based ona chat forums PM who said it was a excellent performer.
Cheap price = cheap sound..(not alwasy true the TB2145 $250 and has high fidelity)
IMHO the **new* models looks about same construct as old.
I;'m not buying in.
IMHO the TB2145 and DLVX8 both easily trump anything offered by Lii.
I could be wrong.
2 Cents is all I have
LII has alot of these 10,12,15 inchers, Sorry not interested.
What kind of bass are we acutally hearing from these extra large cones???
Low fidelity is my guess.
All my above might add up to just 2 cents.
As much as I prefer a 15" all by its lonesome, the bottom line is that they really need to be some form of three way to meet the appropriate [apm]s just as RCA proved with its LC-1A otherwise there's too much distortion regardless of whether or not it's euphonic to some, so very much a niche group.
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Translate.
I'm not a tech geek.
based on what I heard from the Lii fast 8, which really looks awefully close to the newer models,, that speaker has a longgggg way to go before it achieves the fidelity in bass/mids/highs as the TB2145 and DLVX8.
Yes I am aware the Lii is very popular.
They did at one time list on Amazon. Which may have given them notoriety.
Look still Listed
5 FIVE STAR comments,, so what do i know..??
At $250 can't go wrong....Davidlouis has a new model on his ebay site,, they look like same cheap garbage as these LII's
DavidLouis in one of his pics of the DLVX8 has a big thumb UP,, should have figured out what he was trying to covey,,, but I did not,, so I order a bunch of his other models, 1st, BEFORE I hit on his Thumbs Up VX8.
All his others I sold off and will give away to my brother in law, the DL Yellow 6..
If anyone is interested, paid $450 willing to let go at $200. Bass a bit soft, mids good but slight stress in some fq/ s highs good.
Not worth $450, but certainly 200.
I think I have a YT vid on my site of that speaker in actuion,, or I may have taken it down..
https://www.amazon.com/Lii-Audio-Dr...632577105&sprefix=lii+speakers,aps,171&sr=8-4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Translate.
I'm not a tech geek.
based on what I heard from the Lii fast 8, which really looks awefully close to the newer models,, that speaker has a longgggg way to go before it achieves the fidelity in bass/mids/highs as the TB2145 and DLVX8.
Yes I am aware the Lii is very popular.
They did at one time list on Amazon. Which may have given them notoriety.
Look still Listed
5 FIVE STAR comments,, so what do i know..??
At $250 can't go wrong....Davidlouis has a new model on his ebay site,, they look like same cheap garbage as these LII's
DavidLouis in one of his pics of the DLVX8 has a big thumb UP,, should have figured out what he was trying to covey,,, but I did not,, so I order a bunch of his other models, 1st, BEFORE I hit on his Thumbs Up VX8.
All his others I sold off and will give away to my brother in law, the DL Yellow 6..
If anyone is interested, paid $450 willing to let go at $200. Bass a bit soft, mids good but slight stress in some fq/ s highs good.
Not worth $450, but certainly 200.
I think I have a YT vid on my site of that speaker in actuion,, or I may have taken it down..
https://www.amazon.com/Lii-Audio-Dr...632577105&sprefix=lii+speakers,aps,171&sr=8-4