I don't want to get into climate change either, but regarding your points, which are important to consider, there is more to even these.
Who knows if it's possible, but why not try? To me, a world of EVs, assuming the electricity is cleanly produced, would be amazing. Much lower noise in cities, lower smog, etc. etc. Never mind any climate benefits. Climate change is a good excuse for finally doing the work that's needed. And cobalt? If demand for EVs grew that much there would be MUCH higher incentive to develop better storage technology and efficiency, and perhaps solar vehicles would be developed that could fill a portion of the vehicle demand. Free market economies are moved by demand (supply is a much lower influence - only petroleum has ever "shocked" the economy on the supply side). If climate change generates demand, that seems to me to be a good thing.
Government incentives have been behind pretty much EVERY industry that has ever developed. Sometimes they are fairly hidden, but they are there. Are they good? Sometimes. I consider the COVID vaccine to have been a good thing.
Interestingly, China is already making pretty amazing headway on alternative energy and EVs. Their authoritarian government can accomplish things we can't in the US. See this article: China’s transition to electric vehicles | MIT News | Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They suggest by 2030, 40% of vehicles in China will be EVs. That's likely more than your example of GB. And the Chinese gov't isn't letting the world's cobalt supply get in their way. FWIW, I'm no apologist for China's government and their command and control approach isn't the way I'd choose to go. But China is arguably ahead of the US in many areas of environmental protection and remediation.
Doubtful in my mind. To the extent we develop technologies and invent new products to combat climate change, we will benefit. I'll leave my thoughts at this: a colleague of mine in environmental economics did a study of environmental laws and regs and their impact on businesses who fought the laws with claims they would be far too costly. In every case, the businesses ended up better off after the laws went into effect. The reason? Innovation. They were forced to deal with the laws and ended up finding new approaches, cutting costs and developing new products and services. In short, I have faith in our economy to adapt to just about anything thrown at it. I mean, look at our economy after the devastation of 2020.
(1) Is it even possible to totally convert even a single nation 100% non-carbon? Funding issues aside, there appear to be hard resource limits. E.g. a recent news report claims that even to equip the UK alone with EVs would more than consume several of the world's supply of critical inputs (say, cobalt). If a country that is < 1% of the world population and 3% of GDP alone would make such a resource claim, that shows there's a problem. Even if that report is inaccurate, the problems of limited resources, budgets, price hikes is not invalidated.
Who knows if it's possible, but why not try? To me, a world of EVs, assuming the electricity is cleanly produced, would be amazing. Much lower noise in cities, lower smog, etc. etc. Never mind any climate benefits. Climate change is a good excuse for finally doing the work that's needed. And cobalt? If demand for EVs grew that much there would be MUCH higher incentive to develop better storage technology and efficiency, and perhaps solar vehicles would be developed that could fill a portion of the vehicle demand. Free market economies are moved by demand (supply is a much lower influence - only petroleum has ever "shocked" the economy on the supply side). If climate change generates demand, that seems to me to be a good thing.
(2) The astronomical financial costs. Have they been realistically estimated? There's a reason that government "incentives" are required for nearly all green energy projects, and it's not because they're cheaper than what they propose to replace.
Government incentives have been behind pretty much EVERY industry that has ever developed. Sometimes they are fairly hidden, but they are there. Are they good? Sometimes. I consider the COVID vaccine to have been a good thing.
(3) Even if the "rich" nations (primarily, the OECD) were to go 100% Green, what about the rest of the world, who produces the majority of the pollutants? Again realistically, what are the chances that China, India and lesser polluters would make the sacrifices required to go carbon-free?
Interestingly, China is already making pretty amazing headway on alternative energy and EVs. Their authoritarian government can accomplish things we can't in the US. See this article: China’s transition to electric vehicles | MIT News | Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They suggest by 2030, 40% of vehicles in China will be EVs. That's likely more than your example of GB. And the Chinese gov't isn't letting the world's cobalt supply get in their way. FWIW, I'm no apologist for China's government and their command and control approach isn't the way I'd choose to go. But China is arguably ahead of the US in many areas of environmental protection and remediation.
(4) With (3) in mind, isn't it likely that countries that paid the cost to go Green will be hobbled in terms of economic competition?
Doubtful in my mind. To the extent we develop technologies and invent new products to combat climate change, we will benefit. I'll leave my thoughts at this: a colleague of mine in environmental economics did a study of environmental laws and regs and their impact on businesses who fought the laws with claims they would be far too costly. In every case, the businesses ended up better off after the laws went into effect. The reason? Innovation. They were forced to deal with the laws and ended up finding new approaches, cutting costs and developing new products and services. In short, I have faith in our economy to adapt to just about anything thrown at it. I mean, look at our economy after the devastation of 2020.
The thing that is missing from most of the research these days is the driver that creates ice ages.
Some geologists believe that "snowball earth" was created in an era of great volcanic activity -- the exposed rock absorbed CO2 from the earth's atmosphere and the blanket disappeared. Without the "blanket' of CO2 and water vapor, the earth's mean temperature would probably be 25C cooler than present, this according to Koonin.
I was asked to invest some of an institution's money in a "carbon-free" fund. The portfolio manager gave a presentation on the evils of plastics. I asked her if she had elastic holding up her panties.
So would I but, "whilst this discussion is of importance, it is not possible to fully discuss without delving into politics, which is against the forum rules. For that reason we are closing the thread and ask that similar threads not be started".Climate Change: I debate that topic elsewhere, and don't especially want to start here. But I'd like to throw out,

Okay you have copied that from another thread and we have no plans of closing this thread...
...yet.
We have crossed the lines with a few posts but going forward,
let's stick to the weather and leave the other things out shall we?
If you are interested in the science (I stress science) of this stuff, Clive Best is a physicist with a fantastic blog here
Clive Best | Science Travel Opinions
He argues both sides, but there’s lots of interesting historical data and links to interesting papers etc.
Clive Best | Science Travel Opinions
He argues both sides, but there’s lots of interesting historical data and links to interesting papers etc.
If you are interested in the science.
That was the point of Koonin's book "Unsettled" -- he focuses only on the science and the statistics.
Getting back to "weather" -- we've had a couple of beautiful sunny days here with temps in the mid 80's -- but a week's absence on the Carolina coast w grandkids has left the garden over-run w weeds.
There must be a Scotsman lurking about as the thistle is the worst I've ever experienced. Oat-cakes anyone?
We’ve had a slightly cooler (well, coolest spring since 1922 here in Norfolk UK) and the garden and surrounding meadows are the greenest and overgrown I’ve seen in 5 or 6 yrs.
Looks like the sunny hot weather is going to continue for a while so I was quick to cover the living room's window with an emergency blanket just in time as the sun started to peek around the corner, very effective and recommended, those blankets usually comes in the size 120x200cm or so for only couple of €/$/£, can be found also on Aliexpress.
Curtain Military Blanke Emergency Thermal Blanket Outdoor WaterProof Survival Rescue Blanket Foil Thermal Space First Aid Rescue|Safety & Survival| - AliExpress
Curtain Military Blanke Emergency Thermal Blanket Outdoor WaterProof Survival Rescue Blanket Foil Thermal Space First Aid Rescue|Safety & Survival| - AliExpress
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the current downing of much of the airline traffic due to a certain health plandemahem have for the past and present summer given us a much clearer sky without all those ugly crisscross streaks, even the occasionally silver-grey haze hasn't shown up at all, some times I'm wondering whether it's all due to cons or chems, don't know, nonetheless it's pleasantly quieter around here as we have the international airport not very far away.
Yes! I am NOT looking forward to "regular" air traffic!
We only travel to visit family and friends, and it's not every year we travel by airplane. If people could limit themselves to only 1 vacation by airplane per year the world would be a better place.
The weather this year has been very nice, even the rain is nicer.
One must always recall the Mini ice-age and Greenland warm period. A sine wave high low which can be nature itself. Phase comes into it like AC theory.
I have a vision for a cheap 747 Water-bomber now. Big polystyrene float cum watertank like a boat in shape with tough outer. Under the main 747 to give height also. As an Amphicar, perhaps better than it should be. Take the seats out for a cheap bladder water tank to be fitted. Flying boats have ideal runways if talking length. Cyprus is needing one today. You know, it might look OK. Make it " Thunderbird wathever" in the Ukraine . They would know how and welcolm the international support. Stall more important than top speed. Who cares if it uses more fuel. I don't. Engineer that water will not kill the engines too quickly. Cheap parts stored now whilst cheap.
A quote I remember. " Vision without action is called a daydream. Action without vision is called a nightmare.
I have a vision for a cheap 747 Water-bomber now. Big polystyrene float cum watertank like a boat in shape with tough outer. Under the main 747 to give height also. As an Amphicar, perhaps better than it should be. Take the seats out for a cheap bladder water tank to be fitted. Flying boats have ideal runways if talking length. Cyprus is needing one today. You know, it might look OK. Make it " Thunderbird wathever" in the Ukraine . They would know how and welcolm the international support. Stall more important than top speed. Who cares if it uses more fuel. I don't. Engineer that water will not kill the engines too quickly. Cheap parts stored now whilst cheap.
A quote I remember. " Vision without action is called a daydream. Action without vision is called a nightmare.
196 wildfires burning in the province of BC alone.
Very dry but cooler. A lot cooler. Highs are between 25º and 30º (5º cooler at the Vancouver weather station) these days. No rain in the forecast.
Very dry but cooler. A lot cooler. Highs are between 25º and 30º (5º cooler at the Vancouver weather station) these days. No rain in the forecast.
They are thinking human error in the Lytton fire. Either carelessness or perhaps a sparking train wheel or... WHY. It was not a part of other fires close by. Gawd I hope this wasn't a cigarette butt fire. If so, I hope that person is jailed for life.
Still only 2 persons gone at this point.
I heard the tape of the man whose parents were killed and it was heart breaking. He didn't seem to have time to evacuate so he did what he could to extinguish all the blazes but was overcome and had to seek shelter under some sort of blanket and ride out the storm. When he felt it was safe he went over to the house to see how his parents were doing and his heart sank. They don't expect to find any more bodies, just trying to locate the people. So much lost as the evacuation was so quick. Just a horrible, horrible thing to happen.
Still only 2 persons gone at this point.
I heard the tape of the man whose parents were killed and it was heart breaking. He didn't seem to have time to evacuate so he did what he could to extinguish all the blazes but was overcome and had to seek shelter under some sort of blanket and ride out the storm. When he felt it was safe he went over to the house to see how his parents were doing and his heart sank. They don't expect to find any more bodies, just trying to locate the people. So much lost as the evacuation was so quick. Just a horrible, horrible thing to happen.
Cal: I wish we could send you our rain. It's 5 days into the month, we've already had 40% of the rain expected in July and it's forecast to not stop all week. May and June were 2x normal rainfall, and with soil temps 1C higher than usual I have 10ft tall nettles to deal with and no chance to get the weedkiller on it.
Bill: We could start a petition. Maybe a movement. We ask Mother Nature to hear our pleas. If she listens, we all get what we want. If not we use the B word when referring to her. Either way I'm willing to give it a try.
Anyone know her email addy?
Anyone know her email addy?
I have 10ft tall nettles to deal with and no chance to get the weedkiller on it.
... Perhaps a classic soup?
Firenettle soup with a boiled egg or two is very nice. Just use the tender bits, make compost-tea with the rest.
It looks like fire nettles are the same as we call stinging nettles and the only pleasure I would get from them is knowing they are dying a painful death in hot water. I sure as heck would not enjoy consuming them, methinks.
I think they go nice with some good chicken stock, a couple of boiled eggs, slices of crusty loaf with butter. Compareable to a spinach soup.
People pick them in our south pasture.
We tell them to pull them up and take the parts they want off, and throw the rest on the compost.
I'll eat fiddleheads, wild mushrooms and greens of various sorts, but they can keep those stinging batards!
We tell them to pull them up and take the parts they want off, and throw the rest on the compost.
I'll eat fiddleheads, wild mushrooms and greens of various sorts, but they can keep those stinging batards!
Nettles can be good food if in a war film living off the land situation ( wash hair with the cooking water ). The taste is like spinach with a small after-kick, Swiss Chard is good. The Romans are said to have brought nettles to Britain. Snails also ( my body hates snails, me also ). Mostly we don't eat either here. Somewhat like Japanese fish, cooking the nettle is a fine balance of sting and vitimin C. Only cook the very young tops. I was a very late convert to spinach. Garlic makes it work for me. The French will talk all day about this, in the south more so. The French were my salvation as I realised cooking is science via them. I can only talk food in French and Joan of Arc. They only know that version of me. I am a dreadful cook.
Climate change is in it's lead to gold phase. It took time for the world to know that science. E=MC^2 helped. Mercury to Gold is more possible ( Mercury to Gold is also about conductivity and apparent abundance of Mercury. Is mercury more mobile or by symetry more common ? Gravity comes into it ). It's expensive to do that transformation. I hear a UK diamond seller only sells man-made diamonds now. Mostly because the trade is so dodgy if real mined in Africa ones. Conductivity is my job. Silver is best. New things are looking good. Silver and Aluminium are weird in useful ways. I am using aluminium speaker cable for fun. Brighter than silver! It finds bandwith in amplifiers to be important, brighter being less harsh. How can a man of 64 hear that? It must be intermodulation and not tonal. Being dyslexic Aluminium and Aluminum is fine by me. I was told the latter was a typo. Humans are too diverted by this.
Seeing as crazy Bitcoin can inspire super-computers why not AI for the climate tasks. It can't be left to a little Swedish girl. Bitcoin = Tulip madness? Someone who meets Greta Thunberg, please give her a book on fractals. Fractal theory might be subtly wrong as might Quantum theory. I say both hint at unknown unknowns. Vision is guessing right.
Climate change is in it's lead to gold phase. It took time for the world to know that science. E=MC^2 helped. Mercury to Gold is more possible ( Mercury to Gold is also about conductivity and apparent abundance of Mercury. Is mercury more mobile or by symetry more common ? Gravity comes into it ). It's expensive to do that transformation. I hear a UK diamond seller only sells man-made diamonds now. Mostly because the trade is so dodgy if real mined in Africa ones. Conductivity is my job. Silver is best. New things are looking good. Silver and Aluminium are weird in useful ways. I am using aluminium speaker cable for fun. Brighter than silver! It finds bandwith in amplifiers to be important, brighter being less harsh. How can a man of 64 hear that? It must be intermodulation and not tonal. Being dyslexic Aluminium and Aluminum is fine by me. I was told the latter was a typo. Humans are too diverted by this.
Seeing as crazy Bitcoin can inspire super-computers why not AI for the climate tasks. It can't be left to a little Swedish girl. Bitcoin = Tulip madness? Someone who meets Greta Thunberg, please give her a book on fractals. Fractal theory might be subtly wrong as might Quantum theory. I say both hint at unknown unknowns. Vision is guessing right.
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