I have a speaker that ended up with 2x6,5", but the xo is around 700hz. I didn't like the sound when crossing over higher up.
My daughters speakers with the 12" T-TQWT's I think would sound better just using sealed boxes as the T-TQWT's need xo not much higher than 120hz, where a sealed box would probably integrate well to 250hz or so.
15" is like the golden size, not too big, enough to move a bit of air.
Here's a little scale just for fun:
Single 12" per channel = "ok!"
Single 15" per channel = "thumbsup!"
Double 12" per channel = "Having fun!"
Double 15" per channel = "Party!"
Double 18" per channel = "WOHOO!"
Quad 18" per channel = "Mosh pit!"
The 2x12" was in mtm. I think it plays a major role for me.
2x15" in same config ( Kinoshita Rm7) is better in mid and low end but i'm not a great supporters of 2" cd. They have much more 'body' than 1" for sure but was sensible to their breakup and something a bit 'cardboard sounding' around 800hz. Maybe with a 1,5" i would prefer it. Both were vented but i prefer closed mainly because i find 2 pole bessel alignement to sound good to me and usually easier to integrate to room. The RM7 should be a EBS alignement, the other loudspeaker idk?
It's all about membrane surface and air moving. The bigger the cleaner. With low end there is no escape ( or horn loading but it needs to much space for me).
2x15" in same config ( Kinoshita Rm7) is better in mid and low end but i'm not a great supporters of 2" cd. They have much more 'body' than 1" for sure but was sensible to their breakup and something a bit 'cardboard sounding' around 800hz. Maybe with a 1,5" i would prefer it. Both were vented but i prefer closed mainly because i find 2 pole bessel alignement to sound good to me and usually easier to integrate to room. The RM7 should be a EBS alignement, the other loudspeaker idk?
It's all about membrane surface and air moving. The bigger the cleaner. With low end there is no escape ( or horn loading but it needs to much space for me).
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ahaha, EMS ? I had the father once at phone who is quite a gentle guy while of course business sided (was ten years ago iirc)
Maybe the MTM gives you a "flater" more cohrent front lobying ?
Well I know french are great supporters of TAD compressions but not for everyone due to the price and there are good 1.5" that go lows those days ?! (the one often discussed here or at Melaudia I lurk sometimes too)
Maybe the MTM gives you a "flater" more cohrent front lobying ?
Well I know french are great supporters of TAD compressions but not for everyone due to the price and there are good 1.5" that go lows those days ?! (the one often discussed here or at Melaudia I lurk sometimes too)
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Recently I had a chance to compare my TL-1s to friends Wilson Audio Chronoscopic XVX.
Obviously not the a/b testing as moving any of the speakers require lots quite some effort.
WA had a full DCS front end with Pass X600 amps, I'd say the best of what's around.
To conclude shortly: the presence and transparency of WA XVX are phenomenal and stunning. At the same time, treble feels exaggerated a bit and the rear-firing tweeter gives a very artificial sound stage.
TL1 is certainly less transparent though they give a better "live" feeling and to me sound more engaging, much like you are attending a concert, the bass is way faster.
Overall I am still convinced that TL1 deserves some appraisal and is up to be comparable to the expensive hi-end speakers.
Obviously not the a/b testing as moving any of the speakers require lots quite some effort.
WA had a full DCS front end with Pass X600 amps, I'd say the best of what's around.
To conclude shortly: the presence and transparency of WA XVX are phenomenal and stunning. At the same time, treble feels exaggerated a bit and the rear-firing tweeter gives a very artificial sound stage.
TL1 is certainly less transparent though they give a better "live" feeling and to me sound more engaging, much like you are attending a concert, the bass is way faster.
Overall I am still convinced that TL1 deserves some appraisal and is up to be comparable to the expensive hi-end speakers.
haha, dual 15" is the minimal for me. 
It's not about how loud music would be played. Although I do not dislike the sound of compact speakers and I also own a few small pairs, but I think I prefer those large speakers even at the average or less listening level. Effortless and relaxing. I play smaller speakers for the other reasons, though.
It's not about how loud music would be played. Although I do not dislike the sound of compact speakers and I also own a few small pairs, but I think I prefer those large speakers even at the average or less listening level. Effortless and relaxing. I play smaller speakers for the other reasons, though.
Imo the bass fastness has also to see to the power response shape in the 80 to 150 hz... and also the filter after in the mid... more a feeling than a scientific fact though...
I'm not sure we can talk about fastness with the two first octaves, but after the harmonics are important imo in the way the "fastness" and tightness at the right area are perceived... filter is quite important again and global power response of course (see room)
I'm not sure we can talk about fastness with the two first octaves, but after the harmonics are important imo in the way the "fastness" and tightness at the right area are perceived... filter is quite important again and global power response of course (see room)
I think the next step up would have to be 8x15" or 4x21" per channel.
In my mind 18" does not make a whole lot of sense when 15" drivers are often cheaper and lighter per cone area. More efficient.
Iggy, proper bass is very uncommon in modern day orchestra, the octobass has been nearly extinct for 150 years.
World Premier - Permanent presence of an octobass at the OSM - YouTube
Edit:
Tuba-Octobasse duo - YouTube
In my mind 18" does not make a whole lot of sense when 15" drivers are often cheaper and lighter per cone area. More efficient.
Iggy, proper bass is very uncommon in modern day orchestra, the octobass has been nearly extinct for 150 years.
World Premier - Permanent presence of an octobass at the OSM - YouTube
Edit:
Tuba-Octobasse duo - YouTube
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...
Usually very little happening below 80hz though. Quite common there's a sharp decline below 120hz or so because of the instrument selection.
A solo grand piano in a somewhat small-ish room can have a bit of low frequency energy, but in a concert hall it's not worth a whole lot in terms of bass.
Edit:
Used to be some concert halls had organs, seems it's a returning thing these days.
A solo grand piano in a somewhat small-ish room can have a bit of low frequency energy, but in a concert hall it's not worth a whole lot in terms of bass.
Edit:
Used to be some concert halls had organs, seems it's a returning thing these days.
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You underestimate the level of some instruments: woodbrass are able to rip your head off! A premier trumpet playing alone is already almost unbearable in a small room, when they are 12 playing with tuba and all it can be very loud. Don't forget that in pro orchestra most of them are virtuoso: they play clear but LOUD.
It is well known some locations are dangerous for the musicians in an orchestra... like drummers in metal bands.
It is well known some locations are dangerous for the musicians in an orchestra... like drummers in metal bands.
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I ? Certainly not. I'm found of jazz trumpet and the 115 decibel of Chet Baker solo (more 112 db because of cigarets and drugs). I was talking about venues, recordings of what venues were made about : classical orchestra; and the topic of the discussion about Big Sd in relation to music reproduction.
I partially agree with that, as all those big Sd are where the music is most of the time and I highlighted a post above with classical music which is one of my daily meal (with jazz and rock, noone is perfect).
FWIW I spend many nights of my Young years in Paris Jazz club and most if not all the churches and classical music venues of this town till having missing some of my ,university curses sometimes cause the parisian crazy nights, so the thing is not unknown to me. While I must say : I have not the room and the area living in a flat half of the year to reproduce that more than few minutes
So I must explain why I post here. Seems to me an equilibrium has to be found between the Sd and the frequencies playbacked, at iso linear curve. If power response imo rules, it seems Sd makes 'myth) sometimes the difference and not always where we beleive it is.
TG, likes, quite, his ESL for the mids (simplification for the talks in his own mouth, the guy not being a beginner). What it is about ? Sd ? no filter, aka Big Sd w/o filter driver ? something else ?
From a theorical point of view I disagree about the speed and big Sd. Imo, from my basic perspective it's a myth. While I agree with subjective opinions, in the sense of empirical and not from a dialectic sense of the word : so experience of others trusted.
I believe both in the room and whole layout. So your opinions and experiences most welcomes... though as others I have also my experiences. Open discussion. Big Sd are welcome in my mind, strangely, oddly, bizaaaarely, not where you put it (ESL welcome and I think TG is an open mind), at the excpect of what I believe and said above of where most of the music is - and ok there are exceptions while I'm not listening trumpets everyday at their max, and like strong in a velevet glove Ben Webster too.
Hope that helps in the topic and of course FWIT and YMMV. Being myself a non frontier lover of different loudspeakers fazmily : monitors for the neutrality, VoT for the 4 layers of the sorting out above that talks (about the drivers Sd and where it stands you, uh, wow, bouh ! and my own for practical reason of loudspeaker with sealed bass, XO somewhere between 100 and 150 he ans small drivers for the mid ruled by the voices and piano , soundstage and more or less happy mariage with the room and the tweeters.
I finish by saying my average spl are those days not more than 70 dB at listening position. (most of the timepeaks are not above 85 db cause most of the fault of the reccordings.
I partially agree with that, as all those big Sd are where the music is most of the time and I highlighted a post above with classical music which is one of my daily meal (with jazz and rock, noone is perfect).
FWIW I spend many nights of my Young years in Paris Jazz club and most if not all the churches and classical music venues of this town till having missing some of my ,university curses sometimes cause the parisian crazy nights, so the thing is not unknown to me. While I must say : I have not the room and the area living in a flat half of the year to reproduce that more than few minutes
So I must explain why I post here. Seems to me an equilibrium has to be found between the Sd and the frequencies playbacked, at iso linear curve. If power response imo rules, it seems Sd makes 'myth) sometimes the difference and not always where we beleive it is.
TG, likes, quite, his ESL for the mids (simplification for the talks in his own mouth, the guy not being a beginner). What it is about ? Sd ? no filter, aka Big Sd w/o filter driver ? something else ?
From a theorical point of view I disagree about the speed and big Sd. Imo, from my basic perspective it's a myth. While I agree with subjective opinions, in the sense of empirical and not from a dialectic sense of the word : so experience of others trusted.
I believe both in the room and whole layout. So your opinions and experiences most welcomes
... though as others I have also my experiences. Open discussion. Big Sd are welcome in my mind, strangely, oddly, bizaaaarely, not where you put it (ESL welcome and I think TG is an open mind), at the excpect of what I believe and said above of where most of the music is - and ok there are exceptions while I'm not listening trumpets everyday at their max, and like strong in a velevet glove Ben Webster too.Hope that helps in the topic and of course FWIT and YMMV. Being myself a non frontier lover of different loudspeakers fazmily : monitors for the neutrality, VoT for the 4 layers of the sorting out above that talks (about the drivers Sd and where it stands you, uh, wow, bouh !
and my own for practical reason of loudspeaker with sealed bass, XO somewhere between 100 and 150 he ans small drivers for the mid ruled by the voices and piano , soundstage and more or less happy mariage with the room and the tweeters.I finish by saying my average spl are those days not more than 70 dB at listening position. (most of the timepeaks are not above 85 db cause most of the fault of the reccordings.
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The total SD speaker in my living room:
2x18 "
4 x 10 "
2x8 "
Listening at low volumes, for my taste, you don't need a bass boost at all, I just slightly modify the gain of the subwoofer amplifier. . I'd like a bit more extension at the higher frequencies, but I'm not sure if it's due to my ears or the preferred TG curve. He has repeatedly said that excess glitter "sells", but that it is not real, he prefers the BBC curve, with a downward trend from medium to high, and approximately 18 Khz, according to the graph. attached to the DTQWTII, it drops quite steeply.
It placed three levels of tweeter attenuation with fixed resistors. That was a few years ago. I chose without hesitation the R with the lowest attenuation (1.8 Ohm), but I think that at any moment I will eliminate it ...
On TL3, he opted for a continuously variable Fostex attenuator for the horn. This is how it was used in the good days of JBL, Altec, etc.
Perhaps to some fans of "less is more" it seems heresy.
He has also written that many symphony conductors suffer from hearing problems ...
As diyiggy said, one thing is a peak of + than 100 Db in our living-room a few hours a week and another to be in charge of the orchestra all the active life as a conductor, let's not forget that there are many hours of rehearsals before. playing in public !
2x18 "
4 x 10 "
2x8 "
Listening at low volumes, for my taste, you don't need a bass boost at all, I just slightly modify the gain of the subwoofer amplifier. . I'd like a bit more extension at the higher frequencies, but I'm not sure if it's due to my ears or the preferred TG curve. He has repeatedly said that excess glitter "sells", but that it is not real, he prefers the BBC curve, with a downward trend from medium to high, and approximately 18 Khz, according to the graph. attached to the DTQWTII, it drops quite steeply.
It placed three levels of tweeter attenuation with fixed resistors. That was a few years ago. I chose without hesitation the R with the lowest attenuation (1.8 Ohm), but I think that at any moment I will eliminate it ...
On TL3, he opted for a continuously variable Fostex attenuator for the horn. This is how it was used in the good days of JBL, Altec, etc.
Perhaps to some fans of "less is more" it seems heresy.
He has also written that many symphony conductors suffer from hearing problems ...
As diyiggy said, one thing is a peak of + than 100 Db in our living-room a few hours a week and another to be in charge of the orchestra all the active life as a conductor, let's not forget that there are many hours of rehearsals before. playing in public !
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